Lots of laminits this year

MotherOfChickens said:
They aren't my sheep-I'd not have sheep as a gift as they are too ihigh maintenance in addition to everything else I have. These sheep can come and go into my paddock too which means it's not overgrazed and stressed but they get rid of docks, ragwort florets and I get the benefits of cross grazing without the bad bits. They aren't in there in the winter.
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I think maybe we just need less of his sheep at one time maybe this year we'll get them later when the lambs are gone , they are great at getting the ragwort. Also thus year we rested a different bit of the field over winter and now there are sycamore seedlings all over it :( never noticed them ever before!

My mum mentioned about fertilizing our field thus year and I wanted to cry! That is not happening! My boy gas had pulses a few times but now they're on our poorer field and have been for a month now. Also feeding him salt morning and evening I think has helped? He's comfortable on his feet totally, also gets all the bf supplements and a heaped scoop of protexin which I think is also helping
 
SEL said:
I asked one of the metabolic specialists about this (from a PSSM perspective, but its all about sugar) and she said the sugar level might be higher, but they will eat a LOT less from short grass than long grass. Overall with the long grass they can stand in one spot and munch greedily so will probably take in a lot more sugar overall.

She told me to take a small pair of scissors and see how much grass I can cut in 10 mins. If I can fill a plastic bag then its much too long.
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That's reassuring - did wonder if my vet was right so now my OH can buy a ride on mower instead of using the contractor!
 
stencilface said:
I think maybe we just need less of his sheep at one time maybe this year we'll get them later when the lambs are gone , they are great at getting the ragwort. Also thus year we rested a different bit of the field over winter and now there are sycamore seedlings all over it :( never noticed them ever before!

My mum mentioned about fertilizing our field thus year and I wanted to cry! That is not happening! My boy gas had pulses a few times but now they're on our poorer field and have been for a month now. Also feeding him salt morning and evening I think has helped? He's comfortable on his feet totally, also gets all the bf supplements and a heaped scoop of protexin which I think is also helping
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I feed salt as well this time of year-they always have salt licks but they get a small amount of soaked agrobs cobs with some salt and I am just starting some vits and mins since they are on soaked hay and restricted grazing. I am not 100% convinced they need it but have fallen victim to marketing :p. mine also have gorse, ash, beech and hawthorne to nibble on (which they can do with their muzzles on) and rushes.
I counted this morning, I think there are 20 ewes plus lambs on 7 plus acres-I have the ponies on about one acre of that fenced off with an electric wire fence big enough for the sheep to move underneath it. In the winter the ponies get the whole of it-it will have some cattle on it at some point when the ponies move off (typically from July through to December.) On other premises I've had sheep on and it was a bit of a disaster (too many for too long and they didnt eat what the landlord wanted them to).
 
My mare is on box rest at the moment after having her fetlock joint medicated so will have had about 55 hours off the grass before she can be turned out. I can imagine that the grass would have shot up during this time so I reduced her paddock by 40 metres yesterday and will increase it slowly over the next couple of weeks so she ends up back in the spot she was in prior to her visit to the vet. I strip graze her anyway.

I have heard that there is a lot of laminitis at the moment too. Grass grows over 5C so I can imagine with the deluge of rain we've had recently that it will start growing quickly without the need of Mr Sun!
 
Funnily enough my blacksmith is here today and I have just asked him about laminitis and he confirmed that there is a lot more of it about than usual. He also said that a lot of cases do not seem to be responding so well to treatment.
 
I've got the vet coming out this afternoon to test for EMS :(
Going to move him from haylage onto soaked hay too.
I ordered some of that Zeolite stuff, it was cheap so thought why not. Hilton Herbs do a supplement called Cush X, going to speak to the vet about it later and see if there is anything they recommend or if it's just a waste of money.
Sigh... one thing after another with this horse at the moment, have been on the phone to the vets every day this week so far!
 
I lost mine to lami in April. He came down with it in Feb and even then the vet said they were seeing more horses that aren’t “typical cases” come down with it than ever. I reckon there’s going to be a breakthrough in the research sometime soon that links it to something else / uncovers more findings and HOPEFULLY provides a better course of treatment / cure. It really is the cruellest disease. I used to see big green fields and wish I owned them for horses. Now I see them and shudder. And mine didn’t even get grass induced lami!
 
Patchworkpony said:
That's reassuring - did wonder if my vet was right so now my OH can buy a ride on mower instead of using the contractor!
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Haha, lucky you, we don't have a ride on mower, but ours keeps my step count up (was 25k that day) ;).

Thanks SEL for that info, the mowing pic was only taken on Saturday and I thought I'd let the grass settle a bit before grazing it, but it's sprouted up insanely in just 5 days. Think I'll have to keep mowing and collecting the cuttings until the weather settles and grass growth returns to more normal levels.

Googol, so sorry to hear about your loss.
 
googol said:
I lost mine to lami in April. He came down with it in Feb and even then the vet said they were seeing more horses that aren’t “typical cases” come down with it than ever. I reckon there’s going to be a breakthrough in the research sometime soon that links it to something else / uncovers more findings and HOPEFULLY provides a better course of treatment / cure. It really is the cruellest disease. I used to see big green fields and wish I owned them for horses. Now I see them and shudder. And mine didn’t even get grass induced lami!
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Sorry for your loss googol. Our grazing is fabulous and we have far too much so we’ve just topped the fields. We are short on horses at the moment and all of ours are good doers so we are fencing bits off and using the bare minimum. It seems such a sin to have all these beautiful green fields and no horses on them, but we just can’t risk it.
 
googol said:
I lost mine to lami in April. He came down with it in Feb and even then the vet said they were seeing more horses that aren’t “typical cases” come down with it than ever. I reckon there’s going to be a breakthrough in the research sometime soon that links it to something else / uncovers more findings and HOPEFULLY provides a better course of treatment / cure. It really is the cruellest disease. I used to see big green fields and wish I owned them for horses. Now I see them and shudder. And mine didn’t even get grass induced lami!
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That's awful, so sorry for your loss.
My boy certainly doesn't look a typical case - he's not fat, doesn't look remotely Cushings/PPID, he's only 15. Further testing will tell, I suppose. He's already on a low sugar diet - he has meadow haylage and Thunderbrooks healthy herbal muesli plus balancer. He doesn't have sugary treats. It's got to be the damned grass; I left my last livery yard because of the poor grazing (not just the lack of grass, the lack of actual space for them to move around in, and the fact it was constantly muddy up to your knees and the risk of mud fever). NOn my new yard I have the opposite problem, too much grass!
 
We have one on our yard this year who's never had it before, depite being a prime candidate for years. Overweight, underworked (not worked at all in fact) and fed ad lib sugar in the form of a lick all winter. Owner thought he looked 'a bit stiff' and asked me to take a look. He was crippled in front bless him. No pulses or heat but I was convinced and told her to get vet asap. Sadly I was proved right. He's been in a fornight but I haven't seen him move since the first day he was in so not sure if he's improved.
 
My big TB has been diagnosed with EMS after a lami bout this spring. He's had lami before due to hind gut acidosis but with management we had been lami free for 4 years. He had put weight on due to not really being worked over winter - he had an on/off abscess - and had been diagnosed with a calcium deficiency in Nov after years of mystery symptoms, huge vet bills and no diagnosis. Tried Metformin but getting it in him was difficult so added extra magnesium (apparently low calcium often means low magnesium too) and he has improved. Now sound, out in a small paddock with very little grass (it was a mud bath all winter), and has lost weight. Had a sarcoid banded which is about to fall off so hoping to get him back in work in the next few days. How he got lami when he hasn't had access to grass for 8-9 months and doesn't get fed anything that should cause it is beyond me... but hopefully we are on the right path now.
 
I am really stressing about Lami this year. Horse cannot be stabled due to other health reasons. She is no longer insured (everything is excluded anyway!) can't be worked either so is on 24/7 turnout and retired. Can't muzzle as she rubs it off on the fencing/other Horse/Trees/Water Trough. We have so much grass! farmer has kindly cut some for us and we are strip grazing. I am watching her like a hawk, if she does get Lami then she will be PTS. Even a mild case. I don't know how I can prevent it, even if I was to pay out and nurse her through it she won't be able to have 24/7 turnout after which she needs for her bad hock arthritis. Previous years she has had her exercise upped and brought in overnight on soaked hay which has worked.
 
LB I'm the same with Frank, doing our best to prevent it (and actually his weight/crestiness is better than last year) but if he gets it when we are doing the best we can while still providing some QOL I will PTS.
 
ester said:
LB I'm the same with Frank, doing our best to prevent it (and actually his weight/crestiness is better than last year) but if he gets it when we are doing the best we can while still providing some QOL I will PTS.
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Sorry you are going through it too :(

It is such a worry, but then again there is not much else we can do, and QOL has to come first.
 
he might well be ok, he's never had it but is requiring boots for his short hacks atm which worries me a bit. He has a heap of other stuff going on currently (vet kindly declared my email after visiting this weekend 'comprehensive'). So we shall see, but it is just something that I have made sure Mum knows my opinion on.
 
I'm particularly concerned this year, especially after my friend (who commented earlier in the thread) lost her darling boy - especially, as she pointed out, he was not a typical case and it wasn't related to grazing. It is such a heartbreaking thing, and having seen how very devastating it can be, I want to ensure I look after my 2 as best I can.
The older gelding is doing well on a little extra grazing, he came out of winter quite light and is starting to shape up nicely.
The mare is a little more tricky. She is a good do-er anyway, always has been, but she's not 100% at the moment so not being ridden, consequently she's not as fit as I'd like. I try and keep her off the grass (we don't have an outrageous amount) a few hours daily, I think I will do some inhand walking with her too.
 
I have one with cushings who has had laminitis before, and so this time of year is always a worry. I do seem *touchwood* to have cracked my management though. When they go onto their summer field, I start them off in a small paddock and gradually strip graze. The grass in their paddock is very short, but I'm not so worried about stressed grass because at least they can't eat anywhere near as much if the grass is short! I have two, my mare and my sister's gelding. The gelding could wear a muzzle but tbh my grass is too short and I don't think he'd manage to eat anything. Mare's skin is too sensitive for a muzzle (I tried sewing in fleece and several different kinds and she was still rubbed raw). The best management method for me is definitely very short grass. They are both retired (mare due to age and gelding due to injury) but luckily neither of them are naturally "fat" horses, although they are definitely good doers and don't need much to thrive!
 
Isn't it just, been dreadful this way. I keep having to bring mine in when I detect pulses. With one thing and another, they've been in since the end of August last year :(
 
I had the farrier out today and got him to double check my old girls feet. Thankfully all okay but this is the most worried I've ever been about lami! We've upped the work load and she'll have a muzzle on throughout the day, can't be too careful with an old, porky native :(
 
Hardly surprising, the countryside is like a jungle. After so much rain in the winter, the sudden arrival of warm weather has just made everything explode into growth.
 
HashRouge said:
I have one with cushings who has had laminitis before, and so this time of year is always a worry. I do seem *touchwood* to have cracked my management though. When they go onto their summer field, I start them off in a small paddock and gradually strip graze. The grass in their paddock is very short, but I'm not so worried about stressed grass because at least they can't eat anywhere near as much if the grass is short! I have two, my mare and my sister's gelding. The gelding could wear a muzzle but tbh my grass is too short and I don't think he'd manage to eat anything. Mare's skin is too sensitive for a muzzle (I tried sewing in fleece and several different kinds and she was still rubbed raw). The best management method for me is definitely very short grass. They are both retired (mare due to age and gelding due to injury) but luckily neither of them are naturally "fat" horses, although they are definitely good doers and don't need much to thrive!
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So agree with this. There is so much info around at the moment about how much better it is for the horses to graze longer grass as it is lower in sugar. For heavens sake you cannot put a good doer out on 6" bright green grass and not get trouble. Maybe owners should be encouraged to look at the amount of sugar per square metre or something rather than the amount of sugar in an individual blade of grass of a specific length. these people are so unaccountable and never have to deal with the consequences.
 
It still depends on the time of year too, we graze on standing foggage come winter I wouldn't be doing the same now, though there is a patch on their track that they seem determined not to eat!

I do also think people only realise how much grass there is if they fence a bit off and let it grow 'there is no grass' often means 'they are just eating it as fast as it grows'.
 
in some ways it isn't surprising, due to the weather, however I must admit I have always been quite lax with my horses waist lines and not had a problem, they always put on weight in the spring, but I used to have them on a large field anyway so they at least kept moving. but my mare does have the typical bad fat pockets and this year her crest has gone solid. they are on a very stingy track to keep movement and reduce grazing, but I can't have them on much less, quite a bit of the track is a poached area from the winter and a big section of weeds. but I now also have an added risk as my new forest pony has been diagnosed with liver disease and is now on steroids so even higher risk.

my friends mare when out in April and within 48 hours went lame, she is 18 and has often been out on lush grass and been overweight without any signs of laminitis before (she has no underlying health cause) now in being miserable on soaked hay, but owner too scared to turn her out, although she has been sound for weeks. I agree with her being cautious but they similarly need some quality of life. I am scared I still haven't got it right though and they will get laminitis despite the track.
 
I’ve been so worried about lami I ended up moving my horses. 1 Connie with ems and a section b who was putting weight on. The yard we were on had cattle (rye grass and clover and there was clover in the hay too) and DIY (I’d moved there for assistance but the assistance left so no help after all) and so I was struggling to fit in my jobs and working and running a business and family life. They weren’t getting the work and the grazing was just like rocket fuel.

I’ve moved to part livery (full during the week) got a sharer for the mare, set up a track round the field and they are in on soaked hay in the day and out with more soaked hay at night. So far they seem to have lost weight and my mares crest is definitely better. She still has fat pads around her tail but has lost her bloated look. I’m ashamed of how bad she got although my farrier has said he’s seen much worse. She is now being worked twice a day most days and the pony being worked daily. My friend lost her mare to it this spring and I am determined not to allow that to happen, or at least to do everything within my power to prevent it.
Feed wise they’re on thunderbrooks chaff, Phytolean, a pro and prebiotic, salt and as much hedgerow stuff I can find.
Im so sorry for those who have been affected by it so far this year.
 
My girl was on reduced work due to suspensory issues. So had come out of winter a bit porky. I hadn’t realised she was overweight , she’s my first horse and is a chunky type I feel terrible about it.

She then got this odd swollen mammary gland (just the one) so vet started digging deeper someone gave me heads up that this could be EMS. She was tested and negative for ems but as she has often been footy (we had put it down to possible navicular and very thin soles) and is overweight we are treating her as if she is at risk. Have noticed she has become less footy since on reduced grazing. We had hay tested and was higher than vet liked so have switched to haylege as sugars were considerably lower. Anyway I am the same as some people above. Used to will our fields to grow loads of grass for summer but now I’m disturbingly looking forward to winter where it will be easier to get the weight off with less rugging and soaking hay/feeding Timothy haylege.

After doing a trial of horsewares rug monitor system I discovered that my girl is warm enough in a rain sheet/naked 99% of the time. I’ve always been conscious of not over rugging (would use a 50-100g if chilly) but next winter she will be barely rugged. Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh?
 
Well, vet came out last night and took bloods for EMS and PPID. She said I'd done exactly the right thing, not putting him back out on grass when I noticed his crest.
He is sound in walk and trot, and only reacted verrrrry minimally on one front to hoof testers, not over pedal bone, so think this is just a bit of sole sensitivity as he's barefoot.
However, his crest is pretty solid and she could detect slightly raised digital pulses so I'm to treat as high risk; soaked hay, keep in for a week and then reasses.
Should get blood results tomorrow/Monday. He's at the vets on Tuesday anyway for back X-rays, so going to have his feet X-rayed at the same time. That's going to be fun isn't it, after being on box rest for nearly a week :-l he'll be like a coiled spring...
Oh the joys... At least I caught it early, I am so thankful that I went with my gut instinct and took it as seriously as I did. It comes on so fast, and the warning signs aren't always there; I'm so sorry to hear everyone else is srtuggling with it too.
Why aren't there more yards out there set up specifically for laminitic/overweight/EMS horses? It's such a common problem nowadays and it's so hard to manage when on a yard with beautiful green fields..! We need more bare track systems, with different terrain, hay/haylage stations etc. Horses are not designed to graze lush green grass on small postage stamp fields day in day out, they are just eating themselves to death.
 
At the clinic I asked my vet to xray my horses foot (which she was lame on) just to rule out laminitis and the xray showed a perfect parallel line between pedal bone and hoof wall, so that was a relief, I think the vet thought it could possibly be very mild laminitis too or at least wanted to rule out the possibility, but fortunately it turned out to be a touch of arthritis in the fetlock joint which was medicated, already she looks like she is walking a lot better. I reduced her field after the 48hrs box rest to a postage stamp and will increase it by about two foot tonight. Its only been two days of being ungrazed but I know the grass grows so quickly in this type of weather.

Athough she's not been paddling with her feet or is overweight (ribs can be seen just) she has a very slight crest which the feed nutrionist noted when she came out to weigh the horses the other week so laminitis is always a possibility in my mind. We have two that have succumbed to lamintis on our yard, one is likely to ever be ridden again and the other had strong pulses so has been kept in for 48 hours and paddock reduced.
 
Mine would now body score at a 2-3 he's covered but still slight rib visible underneath. Small pulses this morning and we're due more rain today so expecting another flush. I'm just hoping when I'm away this weekend they don't get moved by family onto fresh grass as his pulses will bound. It happened last year! Ive begged them no too. I need to reassemble the fencing around the arena again as his paddock. There's a metre wide strip of long grass around the boundary so it's nice that there's some grass, but not much. I'll hay too. I need to fence him off the banks.
 
Mines come down with it yesterday - been watching him like a paranoid hawk.... thought I could trust someone bringing him in at the agreed time as discussed, she left him out 5 hours longer than I wanted and never told me. Come back to horse absolutely crippled. Heartbroken.
 
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