Loving Dogs into Dumbness

I agree with most of it but not all. Just because animals can cope with certain things, doesn't mean we should make them anyway. Agree wholeheartedly that dogs and horses have too much decision making taken away from them and one of the greatest pleasures in my life is just observing my animals being themselves.

I hate, hate the furbaby thing-just hideous and as a devout atheist, personally dont care for the Rainbow Bridge thing either but if it gives some comfort and isnt at the cost of animal welfare then so be it.
 
I will agree with parts of it, but to an extent it will depend what you keep dogs for - people who have working dogs tend to be on the whole more practical with their attitude towards their dogs.

We have had both inside and outside working dogs - without a doubt those who lived outside were much more independent, but the bond hasn't been as strong.

Now, I love my dogs an awful lot. I know that dogs learn by exploring, that they fight and that they get run over. However, my dog learning that roads are dangerous through the virtue of getting run over is a pointless exercise for all involved, and on an incredibly selfish level I would not want to put myself through the heartache.

I am well aware that dogs can cope all kinds of pain and hardship, but again I'm not really willing to subject them to any of these things unnecessarily, in the same way I don't push myself to the limit - for what benefit? My dog is a working dog, she gets wet and muddy and she is worked hard when she has a job to do. She is also a pet, she lives inside, she has a bath and she sits on the sofa. I am neurotic about her diet and I would not be happy with her being chucked a tin of kibble a day. I don't care whether other people want to do that, I'm sound in the mind that my dog is well cared for and well fed.

Do I think she is dumb for being a pet first and a working dog second? No, I don't, in fact I do believe that I have a much better bond with her than previous working dogs who has been kept outside, and I think that makes her a better dog to work with.
 
I too only agree with it in part. The example given of the farm collie sounds idyllic but all too often this is the dog that no-one really gets their hands on from day to day, who ends up with the ulcerated mass under a thick coat, a rotten painful mouth, gets into the rat bait unseen, who gets run over for want of proper supervision... extreme examples sure but all ones I've seen, and heard the excuses trotted out - it's a working dog, he does his own thing, we can't bring him to the vet, he won't be handled etc.

There's a middle ground and happily most AAD-ers seem to occupy it. :)

People breaking the windows of dog owner cars in malls and parking lots are not doing the dogs any favors, they are just condemning countless animals to lives in basements and backyards.
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...and then I got this far into the article and wondered if it isn't actually an elaborate troll/baiting post!
 
Agree with above points. I'm much more bonded to the dog that sleeps in the house. We're a team, he works hard for me, he's a rufty tufty mudmoster, but he still needs grooming and looking after.

What I do see more and more is dogs who are never exposed to stress, by owners who think they are doing the right thing, then when the stress comes in the form of training, grooming, vet visits, environmental change, a sudden energency correction, whatever, later down the road, the dog collapses mentally. I think that is grossly unfair, not to prepare a dog to deal with stress.
 
I also think there is a middle ground as well and was perhaps too hasty to say I agree word for word - and the examples given in the article are probably a little too extreme in some cases on reading it again, but it does get the point across that dogs are often not even treated like dogs any more and not often allowed to think for themselves.

I have working and pet dogs. My dogs all live in the house and enjoy that close bond with me. I am happy they get the best vet care, food and are groomed, trained and exercised daily. We live a fairly "natural" life in this modern world, as we have acres of open space to explore and blow off steam in a very rural location. I believe living in busy and noisy cities and towns is asking a lot of a dog. My dogs are not subjected to loud noises (all they hear are sheep and grouse), they don't have to deal with people on a regular basis and I think we forget that the human world is stressful enough for us humans, let alone our dogs with their heightened senses.
 
When I supposedly trained dogs for a living, there's no question that those that came from living 'indoors' and specifically those who were brought up 'with' young children, were always the most receptive. Similarly, those dogs (when I lived alone, and mostly with collies) which were with me 24/7 almost, I always found that the bond was better installed than now. I did find, when 4 dogs in the house was just too much, that pups living in with me up to the age of perhaps 9-10 months, was an initial help, but then think that perhaps all that I achieved was the prevention of a pack mentality with the pup bonding with the kennelled dogs, rather than with me.

Where the excellent article which you've quoted, WorkingGSD, really stands up is our 'rainbow-bridge' approach where we no longer allow a dog to think for itself, and so learn. I love my dogs, but they're my servants (with all the attached responsibilities), they are NOT my friends. My friends all have two legs, not four. I now watch Field Trials and see those dogs waiting for their run, wrapped up in jackets so they don't get cold. 40 years ago such treatment would have been met with derision, but not now, it seems. Similarly, years ago it would be very rare to see a dog on a lead during a days shooting, but now it's common place. If we teach a dog to walk to heal off the lead properly, it's all part of the process of learning to think for themselves.

An excellent and pertinent offering W-GSD, it's filled with straight forward common sense, thank you! The world however is a changing place and we now have Uni lecturers in canine psychology telling us that we've been wrong for years, though strangely perhaps, I've yet to see one of them actually demonstrate their prowess.

Alec.
 
"furbabies" yuk yuk yuk
"Rainbow Bridge" vom

Yes, I love my dog, but he is a dog at the end of the day. People who anthropomorphise animals are asking for trouble (sometimes with a negative effect on their animal's welfare, the very opposite of what they would claim they are trying to achieve!).
 
Alec Swan said:
Similarly, years ago it would be very rare to see a dog on a lead during a days shooting, but now it's common place. If we teach a dog to walk to heal off the lead properly, it's all part of the process of learning to think for themselves.

Alec.
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I think this is where I am a bit more risk adverse, because unless I am working mine and able to keep my eyes on them, they are usually to heel but with a lead on. This season alone I know of two keepers’ who have lost dogs on shoot days – dogs who are on their own beat. My biggest fear will always be losing a dog on the moor because there are often so many shafts and peat bogs about, and as well trained as I think mine are, the ESS in particular cannot be trusted if a hare gets up in front of her and her blood is up. It is quite often a very fine line between letting your dog be a dog, and trying to do best by them to stop them from getting into real danger. The worst the spaniel has done to date was snorting a three inch piece of gorse up her snout, and I’m afraid those are occupational hazards!
 
The natural life thing falls down a bit for us because I have a duty of care towards people like my landlord and my neighbours, who wouldn't appreciate the garden being dug over to resemble the surface of the moon and random exuberant howling; to the public, who have the right to not be intimidated by large dogs in their space or to have their pet cats harmed, etc.... I do the best I can with what I've got but it's not exactly a wolflike existence. ;)
 
blackcob said:
random exuberant howling
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Umm, my lot generally have a morning 'howling session' and they're 2 x JRT and a Welsh sheepdog :redface3: I am in a semi though and my neighbour is generally at work by that point!

I agree that dogs should be treated as dogs and not some weird, furry baby. My lot will have a digging pit for them in the garden in an attempt to stop them digging up my lawn, and they get to go to various places/terrains what with the moors and the beach within a 20 minute drive. Other than that they're on the couch or on/in the bed or having a game between themselves. They all seem happy enough.
 
Left as nature intended mine would be up at 5am singing the song of their people, which is not a beautiful eerie wolf-y experience but more like:

[video=youtube;UZE4HtLxNMY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZE4HtLxNMY[/video]

Those aren't mine, but you get the idea. We're in a mid terrace surrounded by shift workers. :p
 
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