low flying raf helicopter

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Dizzydancer

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Hi all i just had a near miss- thank goodness i decided to only lunge not ride my ex racer.
I heard the shinook coming and could see birds scattering our riding paddock is open to see from a long way off. I saw it coming so turned my boy to face it and just talked to him, i could actually see the pilot he had to pull up to clear the trees after me that's how low he was. Literally flew over the top of us, my lad flipped i let go as he was so wound up it wasn't safe, he was turning himself inside out. Nothing i said stopped him for 10mins as they kept circling round just next to our yard (now 2 of them). Everytime i managed settle him they came again. He had all 4 boots on luckily but he has cut himself on both back legs.
They have come over us before but never so low- if i had been on his back i would most certainly have been thrown off and i like to think i am pretty good when they spook but iv never seen anything like it. I just keep thinking i nearly went for a hack and that would have been disastrous.
I would like to inform the raf that there is a yard there and all 3 next door neighbours have horses and another big livery yard and to deviate the flight pattern in future.
 
I don't mean to sound harsh but these guys are out there fighting in conditions that we could only imagine :-( training is a must. We have just moved to an area where they do lots of training and the fighter jets are a nightmare, my daughter is petrified of them all and just bought a new youngster so I do understand how annoying it is. Am afraid if they were to change flight pattern then on there new route there will always be someone who has a problem with them.
I have told my daughter to get used and just hope the youngster gets used to them :)
 
Phone the base and speak to them, the RAF tend to be pretty nice about these things once they know. I worked at a riding stables and we got a warning phone call when something unusual was heading in low so we had time to turn the horses to face it or get customers off etc etc.
 
AnnaEllie i am aware of the conditions my brother has just come back from a tour. However we are not exactly out in the sticks they are flying over the edge of a small town. Wherever we have kept them we have always had them but this was so low and then continued to fly close by- if i could see the pilot he could obviously see me.
Thanks SarahAnn even a warning phonecall would be useful i will be able to ensure i don't hack out if they warn us. Although not sure where our local base is- as there isn't one i know of within the county!
 
sarahann1 said:
Phone the base and speak to them, the RAF tend to be pretty nice about these things once they know. I worked at a riding stables and we got a warning phone call when something unusual was heading in low so we had time to turn the horses to face it or get customers off etc etc.
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Agree we used to live near Cottesmore and they were ok if you phoned and let them know it was an equestrian property. Out hacking was a different proposition though as was the Royal International Air Tatoo being there one year:rolleyes:
 
If you go to the MOD website you can make a complaint on-line. It won't do much good though - you'll just get a two page letter explaining why they need to practice flying at low level and saying they are going to continue doing so. If you are lucky you might also get an extremely patronising BHS leaflet explaining how to pat your pony to calm it down when it is afraid of something. It is also possible to log on to the MOD website to see where low flying is going to take place, but is isn't terribly specific about locations.

I know this because last August at 6pm on a Tuesday evening 3 chinooks went over me at 50 feet while I was leading my promising young dressage horse out to the field. They were terrifying and my poor horse's flight instincts took over and he jumped an enormous hedge from a standstill into my neighbours dog run. He messed himself up pretty badly and it has taken me the best part of a year to get him right.

I wrote and complained to the MOD because if I had been riding him at the time, or god forbid, out on the road, I'm sure I would have been killed. The MOD just confirmed that the three helicopters had permission to fly at a height of 50 feet (ground level) in the airspace above my property. Now I can understand the need for training and I think our soldiers do an amazing job, but what I cannot understand is putting civilian life at risk by flying at such low levels at peak times on a summer evening when maximum numbers of people are going to be out and about and why can they not send letters to the postcodes that are going to be affected, warning of low flying exercises? My horses accept helicopters and other noisy aircraft at heights of about 100 feet and above, but at 50 feet, the air was being whooped round by the force of the blades, the noise was unbelievable, they were right over us and there was nowhere to go.
 
Dizzydancer as I said I did not mean to sound harsh, I didn't realise all what other posters have said about getting earnings etc :)
Am just at my wits end with how terrified my daughter is about them flying over and constant phone the army am prob a bit grumpy. But it's really useful to know I will be having a look at them links :)
 
I totally sympathise. A couple of weeks ago I had two RAF helicopters (one towing a trailer beneath it) at ground level practicing landing in the field over the road from me. They didn't just fly over to the field, they circled my head over and over, terrifying my little boy and making our pony and my friends two year old (which was staying with us) freak out. A passer by stopped to help me while his wife comforted my son and couldn't believe that any pilot could be that stupid- the pilot was actually looking down on us out of his window and waved to my hysterical son- very helpful! The circling and landings lasted over half an hour during which time both ponies trashed the electric fence and almost got onto the main road. I phoned the RAF and received the standard letter which said a helicopter had flown over on its way to manouvere practice- uh, no it bloomin didn't, there were two of them and I'm convinced they were mucking around! Even people in the village were talking about them and wondering what they were towing and why they were circlingfor such a long time .I totally support our soldiers and agree that they need to practice, but come on, my little boy could have been hurt and terrified ponies on a main road could cause an accident. Sorry rant over... on the plus side, it went on for so long that the ponies were starting to get used to it by the end, so it might have helped with bombproofing.
 
I have both Chinooks & fighter jets fly over my house only a weekly basis, although alarming when I first moved here, my horses now barely bat an eye when they go over, including my foals :)
More than once I have had a fighter jet fly directly over me out riding, my horse bounces slightly but then carries on, they are marvelous for bomb proofing.

I understand how scary it was for you OP, but if it continues your horses will get used to it, even my nut job chestnut mare is not bothered by them now. And as others have said these pilots are working to keep all of us safe, so to them the odd horse & rider getting spooked is less important in the grand sceme of things than practicing their manouvres :)
 
I agree if it was regular he will be fine. We do have them fly over once a month prob but much higher. My problem is if its not regular he won't ever learn.
Sorry to all others who have had similar experience i will ring the local bases and see what then say.
 
Complain by e-mail to them. You say your horse was injured, does he need a vet? Make them pay for it, they do offer that if there are injuries. I complained in the strongest terms when they did this to us and got the standard reply which I wasn't satisfied with and took things further. Profuse apologies followed and we haven't been troubled since. I also got the thing "we have to train and you should be accommodating" I know that better than a lot of people, my son has done more tours to hot and sandy places than you can shake a stick at and even he said it was unacceptable. So complain.
 
Thank you suealin. Fortunately he didn't need the vet, and unless it becomes infected shouldn't do. Luckily i had gloves on and my lunge line is soft or we both could have had severe rope burn, my gloves actually shredded with how fast he pulled back. I will definitely complain- my dad being a solicitor is always willing to help word things correctly! Hopefully i can try and prevent further incident after all Im sure they would have to abandon training should the air ambulance be required.
 
Just check it is the RAF not the Army otherwise you might get some cross pilots ;)

It is annoying when they fly that low but think of it as bombproofing, it certainly came in handy that Conn is used to the Army's chinooks in his field because the other day the air ambulance landed in the field next to where I was riding him, the little champ didn't bat an eyelid!
 
One flew over our yard today, lower than I've ever seen in my life - cue me almost throwing self on floor in fright, whilst all 3 horses and the donkey didn't bat an eyelid - didn't eve look up from grazing!

They do get used to it, pretty quickly, so if you live near a base it won't take long :)
 
I contacted bhs re this recently when I had an issue and they sent me some advise. Can't fins it now but they do have a leaflet on low aircraft with contact info etc on
 
***Donning tin hat***

I spent the majority of my military career flying around low-level in a variety of contra-rotating death traps and we ALWAYS avoided horses if we spotted them. Crews are always briefed pre-flight to try and avoid areas with high equine populations as they don't want anybody getting hurt and irate phone calls and subsequent *******ings by the boss are never fun for anybody!

The key is making your local base aware of your presence, and doing it in a calm reasoned manner. The amount of phonecalls I have had from rude, aggressive people when they see a helo, let alone be anywhere near it is incredible. All flights are tracked so we know exactly where each helo is, at what time, and at what height and some people do tend to rather exagerate. I am in no way saying that is the case here or any of the other posters. We are just trying to do a job and non-horsey flying types just don't get it until they understand!! Having said that, if the stick-monkeys (pilots) know to avoid an area, they will try their best to do so within their flight plan. I actually took a Sqn of guys up to my yard to meet the horses so they had a better idea of where riders were coming from when they complained.

Obviously wear hi-viz when you are out and thathelps too. My horses have all lived near bases where I have worked and they have quickly become bombproof to the noise. Its not nice when your horse spooks, I know that. But the sky is more crowded than you think and if the military were to spend all day avoiding people who didnt like noisy helos, they would never get anywhere or practise. From a very personal perspective, my pilots low-flying skills stopped me from dying last year in Afghanistan so I'd very much like them to keep practising low-flying!!!

I hope that waffle might help with the view from 'the other side'. I don't want to belittle anyones experience and there are aircrew out there who are rude and do not make an effort to avoid horses. Think of them like drivers - most will slow down (or fly higher!!) and avoid you, some don't see you and try to take evasive action and feel quite bad that they may have upset you and your horse. A small percentage don't care and will just ignore your presence and do their own thing!
 
Sorry you had the problem and would agree that letting them know you re there is a good idea. One thing for people to remember is that the pilot has quite a restricted view and unless you are wearing high viz its possible that they may not see you if they are looking at controls and where they are going. I know its not normal to wear high viz at home in the arena but if you find you are going to be riding or lunging on a flying day and they will be headed your way its worth putting it on top give the pilots a chance.
 
PeterNatt said:
Phone 0800 515544 and they will help you.
Also suggest you wear Hi-Viz when riding out so that they have a chance of seeing you.
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This will make no difference whatsoever.
I live in Staffordshire and had a similar incident with a chinnook a couple of weeks ago. I spoke to the MOD who told me exactly the same as they told "piebald pony." I am still waiting for their letter though. I asked about changing course to avoid and they said this would make things worse as a sudden change in course would increase the vibration. Also because of the small cock pit the pilot has limited vision of approaching situations!!
They WILL NOT change the flight path and the help line for the schedule for low flying aircraft is not for training flights, only for large scale organised events. Not much help there then!!
Yes, it is in the interest of defence, but to put lives at risk whilst aiming to protect others does not seem best practise to me.
I did fill in an incident report form on the BHS website as they advocate - statistics DO make a difference.
 
I used to keep my horses on an army base and they had helicopters landing next to their field as well as tanks driving past and they ended up being the most bomb proof horses going. I know it's difficult but it's an unfortunate downside of living near MOD land.
I had Princess Anne tell me one time that my 16.3 ex racer looked like a 'lovely pony' when the royal helicopter did a stopover between her engagements, I'd not long had him and he decided it was going to eat him, within 6 months he didn't bat an eyelid.
 
If you happen to have a facebook account, you can get very current local updates from the RAF facebook. This is my local page http://www.facebook.com/#!/RAFCroWales they have just informed me that there will be some very low flying today

"RAF Community Relations Officer for Wales
LFA7T will be open today from 1100-1200. Aircraft may be as low as 100 feet MSD."


I'm assuming that there are similar pages for all the different areas.
 
I have low flying chinooks where I live; I've found that having plenty of hi viz on me & the horses does make a differnce & they do take avoiding action.

I've got 2 bay horses that would blend into the back ground without it & I ride & lead a lot, I know that sometimes helecoptors fly low & it's up to me to deal with it.
 
PercyMum I agree wholeheartedly! I have worked on Lynx and Gazelle helicopters, and now work for a large helicopter manufacturing company and I also ride horses and have an ex-racer....here's my two pennies worth!

Most pilots, Chinooks included, do not want to cause an accident through low flying. They are simply carrying out a designated flight plan for either training or other reasons. Sometimes aircrew simply do not see a horse and rider as quickly as we'd like when they are looking at their instruments and ahead scanning the area for power lines or other aircraft which could cause a fatal and catastrophic accident if hit in flight. They may also be flying an NVG route which is usually only used at night to survey the route or familiarisation prior to training missions.

It is an unfortunate situation, low level flight training is essential as it trains aircrew to fly 'fast and low' which they may well be asked to do in theatre (at war) where they need to avoid surface to air weapons, enemy radar installations (?), drop off/pick up or medevac troops as fast as possible whilst providing the enemy with less of a target to fix on.

Pilots are now more aware of riders and the dangers of spooking horses and to my knowledge many try their best to avoid riders BUT as a horse rider I know how it feels to have a horse spooking underneath me for what seems like minutes until the aircraft has flown overhead.

There are no easy fixes to this situation. We need to cooperate, and by this I mean we as riders should wear hi-viz ourselves and on our mounts so aircrew may see us sooner and avoid us if possible. If you are unfortunate enough to see an aircraft so low you can see it's Tail Number then make a note of this and contact your local airbase to report it. It may be that they simply did not see you, if not then the aircrew involved can be identified and re-briefed as necessary.

Also if a meeting or competition is taking place it is always a good idea to inform your local airbase of the date and times so they can avoid that particular area on the day, again this will be dependant on their mission requirements. This works to good effect with hot air balloon gatherings or shoots, aircrew are briefed of the 'no-fly' zones or given height restrictions so as to avoid an incident.

If all fails then consider moving your horse to a yard that does not have frequent fly-overs. Not easy or convenient I know, but if you know your horse becomes agitated by aircraft and cannot be de-sensitised by controlled exposure then avoid the situation altogether. The military can only co-operate to a certain extent, and with the best will in the world they can't avoid every rural area.

If I could I would ban all noisy tractors, flappy bags, scary drains, runners (they are very scary to Fred!) and aircraft, even though I fix them! In the real world I have to try my best to calm my horse and give a friendly wave to the aircraft above to show I'm there. Atleast if I do fall off they might have seen me and can pick me up or send an ambulance!
 
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EMC said:
If I could I would ban all noisy tractors, flappy bags, scary drains, runners (they are very scary to Fred!) and aircraft, even though I fix them! In the real world I have to try my best to calm my horse and give a friendly wave to the aircraft above to show I'm there. Atleast if I do fall off they might have seen me and can pick me up or send an ambulance!
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You forgot hot air balloons!!

Mine are all fine with the big scary things, including helicopters.. its the horse eating leaf you need to watch out for!
 
There was an incident a couple of years ago where a rider got killed when her horse spooked badly at a very low flying chinook think it was followed up by authorities too can't remember the outcome. planes imo are less spooky than helis as they less noisy, smoother passage overhead and no scary rotating blades. Definitely report it. I agree that they need to do training but not at risk to others. Yes horses can be de- sensitised but they are flight animals at the end of the day.
 
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