Low-grade Sycamore poisoning??

Frans

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Does anyone know if it is possible for horses to get “slightly poisoned” by sycamore seedlings? ie would it be possible for a horse to show some symptoms that then settle down without it becoming a full blow, life or death situation? Has anyone had any experience of this?

Pony has been generally much more easily tired than usual, sometimes reluctant to go forward, and on a couple of occasions getting very sweaty and exhausted after relatively little effort and with some trembling in his muscles. He recovers very quickly afterwards though and looks generally healthy and normal. Blood test (before the more severe attacks) showed raised gGT, AST, GLDH, LDH and low WBC but normal CK. There are a number of horses at the yard with abnormal liver enzyme results so the vet was suspecting contamination in a food supply. His field mate has shown no symptoms but also has raised liver enzymes and in her case the CK is raised too.

Anyway, I found some odd plants in his field (out day/in night) but wrongly identified them and only yesterday realised they were the first shoots of sycamore seedlings. Went back to check today and there are now huge numbers of them all over the field. My theory is that he has eaten some as they have come through - giving the ongoing loss of stamina - and some days, more recently, enough to give stronger symptoms but, luckily, not enough to make him really ill. All the info I find talks only about severe cases. The ponies have, of course, been taken straight off the field and I’m waiting for the vet to get back to me but, in the meantime, does this sound like a possible explanation?
 

meleeka

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I only have experience of mild acorn poisoning (not mine luckily) and the symptoms were similar (lack of energy, sweating). I don’t know what the blood numbers were but remember acorn poisoning being the diagnosis. The horse is still alive 5 years later, so I’m assuming it recovered (and still lives in the same field with the same acorns each year ?)
 

Frans

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Feeling so bad, moved them in over the winter, no Sycamore trees immediately by the field but there is a wood one field over so possibly some there (no leaves at the moment and I'm not that good at identifying plants -obviously!) There were a lot of high winds and storms this autumn so seeds could have blown over. Can't believe how many there are. Just hope we've got the ponies off it quickly enough and without lasting effects.
 

Marnie

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I have had a very similar issue - think you have seen my post - and am hoping that my two have escaped serious problems, I hope yours are ok too.
 

Marigold4

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Feeling so bad, moved them in over the winter, no Sycamore trees immediately by the field but there is a wood one field over so possibly some there (no leaves at the moment and I'm not that good at identifying plants -obviously!) There were a lot of high winds and storms this autumn so seeds could have blown over. Can't believe how many there are. Just hope we've got the ponies off it quickly enough and without lasting effects.
They seem to be worse this year for some reason
 

L&M

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Yes they can - I had a friend who had a sycamore in the middle of the yard, every spring the horses would all be a little 'off' but perk up a few weeks later.

This was before sycamore posioning was common knowledge and only a few years ago they made the link - chopped the tree down and horses never had an issue again. Could just be a weird coincidence of course.......
 
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Spotherisk

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Maybe mine. About six years ago he was sweating, trembling, dark pee, vet scratched her head twice over the weekend and was not much help, vet owner came out and said treat as laminitis as that’s what we now seem to have in front of us. So three months box rest as all feet had sunk, Imprint shoes and he did come right. Long term (five + years) he didn’t make it as he ended up with weird chronic problems and there was always something wrong, but a different horse with an ability to be managed would have been okay.
 

Frans

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I have had a very similar issue - think you have seen my post - and am hoping that my two have escaped serious problems, I hope yours are ok too.

Yes - its your post that was the breakthrough, thank you!! I had seedlings at the same state and, though I had my suspicions, when I Googled in the field I only found images of seedlings at a later stage so thought I just had an overactive imagination. Luckily decided to have another hunt for info and saw your post. Hope yours are going to be OK. Mine is now moved and I'm crossing fingers that we're in time.
 

WobblyBob

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Both my horses had raised CK and AST levels after their blood was tested, but the vet told me the levels were subclinical and neither displayed any symptoms. I can't remember the levels off the top of my head but it was around 500 for CK and 600 for AST for both of them. The more compliant of the two was retested at two week intervals over the course of a couple of months and the levels remained around the same for the first six weeks. We then had a sample sent to the RVC who tested the blood to confirm that the raised CK level was due to hypoglycin A rather then because of a tying up type issue. Test came back confirming it was hypoglycin A. At this point I radically changed their management (went from living out 24/7 to being stabled overnight and wearing muzzles when out) and after two weeks the CK level was back to normal. At the last test AST is still around 600 so I am supplementing milk thistle and will retest in a couple of weeks, this may be an unrelated issue according to the vet.

Vet advised me not to ride at all until the CK levels were under control. We are now back to hacking out and schooling. I have to say he is feeling fab and very full of himself so there doesn't seem to be any lasting effect, although to be fair he never felt "off" in the first place. In answer to your question, based on the experience I have had, I would say that yes horses can ingest some amount (though how much is anyone's guess) of hypoglycin A and recover. I do think this will vary from horse to horse though as my vet said that some horses metabolise the toxin whereas others do not. I am very fortunate it was caught at a level where it could be reversed.
 

PurBee

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Yes, i was going to mention worth supplementing a good dose of milk thistle to aid the liver to re-generate and function better. Fingers crossed for you.
 
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