Low Sugar,Low Starch,High Fibre,High Oil

I'd go with the Badminton version - I love topspec products and use them myself, but I get through a bag of balancer a month and it is knocking on for £40 a sack now
frown.gif
I daren't change it as I have found a regime which suits him and has not caused the ulcers to recur!
 
I must admit is appeals to me so my next questions are:

Their website describes the Fibre cubes for laminitics and good doers and my big lad is not poor now by any means but isnt a good doer I guess thats why he needs the Triple Top up too?

How much would you as someone who knows the feed give to a 16.3 ISH on Haylage no decent turnout so he needs to get everything from his haylage/Hard feed. I know I could get this from the supplier but its handy to hear it from someone who actually uses it.
 
Triple Top up lasted about 5/6 weeks on a 17.2hh horse who was being fed for condition. It was about £30 a sack. I think it offered excellent value as lasted longer than Top Spec and Outshine which I have fed previously.
 
I take it you are on their feed trial at the moment? I have just finished the feed trial, I own a 17.1hh WB gelding in light to medium work and was recommended feeding him 3KG a day of the Winergy Equilibrium Lo Calorie feed. I gave him approx 1.5kg a day instead and it maintained his weight lovely. A cheaper alternative is Spillers cool fibre which is £9.20 a sack (20KG) and can be fed as a complete feed (again I am only feeding it at half rate) and it's fine. Anything that is molassed such as Apple Chaff is laden with sugar and therefore makes your horse fat. My horse was on molassed chaff as he is an incredibly fussy eater but I would never swap back to the molassed stuff now. Try Spillers Cool Fibre and ring Helen Walker st Spillers on: 01908 576258 or email her on Helen.Walker@effem-equine.com and she will send you a sample. I hope I am allowed to say that, I am not on commision
frown.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I must admit is appeals to me so my next questions are:

Their website describes the Fibre cubes for laminitics and good doers and my big lad is not poor now by any means but isnt a good doer I guess thats why he needs the Triple Top up too?

How much would you as someone who knows the feed give to a 16.3 ISH on Haylage no decent turnout so he needs to get everything from his haylage/Hard feed. I know I could get this from the supplier but its handy to hear it from someone who actually uses it.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, because you need a low starch diet, most conditioning feeds are extremely high in starch, so that will be why he said the fibre nuggetts.

You would probably have to give around 3-4kg of the nugetts to get all the vits etc, the Triple Top Up I just feed two mugs a day, (I use an old balancer measure!) you may need to feed more as your chap needs the calories. It lasts about 6weeks (mare is 16.2), I add a grass chop and speedibeet too.

I would play with the Top Up until you get the mix right, that was what I had to do, in the summer for instance I dropped it to one cup a day, now that the weather has changed she is back on two.
 
Hi thanks for that. No I am not on the feed trial my lad is on Winergy Condition and it really suits him but he is on 4 kg a day. I tried less and he just did not put on the condition I wanted so a bag at £12.50 lasts between 4 and 5 days (its only 15kg).

He was on Spillers Conditioning Cubes before and was better on them but not as fine as he is on the Winergy.
 
This is all extremely helpful so if I make a stab in the dark :-

Triple top up at £30 for 6 weeks = £5 per week
Fibre nuggets at £8 for 20kg = about £11 per week

Total £16 per week

Winergy = £20 to £24 per week
 
[ QUOTE ]
. Anything that is molassed such as Apple Chaff is laden with sugar and therefore makes your horse fat.
frown.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry but Apple Chaff is NOT laden with sugar, I used to feed it to a good doer purely because of that, it will most certainly NOT make your horse fat! You could actually feed it safely to a laminitic it is so low in sugar. Mollasses IS added to some other straw chaffs, but as they are straw based they are never likely to put condition on. I would not feed a mollassed chaff out of preferance but I would most certainly not feed it to make a horse fat!
 
[ QUOTE ]
He was on Spillers Conditioning Cubes before and was better on them but not as fine as he is on the Winergy.

[/ QUOTE ] Is there any particular reason you are against the Spillers Slow Release Cubes? They are much lower in starch than Spillers Conditioning Cubes (12% as against 20%) so would have thought they might be a good choice for your boy. I know quite a few people who have used them and have been impressed with the increase in calmness of their horses on them (I'm assuming behaviour is the reason you want low starch, low sugar).
 
I've switched mine on to Saracen ReLeve Mix in the last month, am impressed with it so far it was actually formulated for horses that tye up, the starch content is very low and they don't need a lot of it either, I've found that my horses are better on low sugar, starch and high fibre, high oil feeds and is working well and relaxed but with enough energy on the Releve.

Also have one horse on Falcon Oat&Barley free mix which is an all in one conditioning mix and has everything you require- my horse that has been on that looks so shiny, but wil prob end up switching him to the Releve to make it easier.

http://www.falconequinefeeds.co.uk/product_range_oat_barley_free_mix.htm

http://www.saracenhorsefeeds.co.uk/products/40741767/re-leve-performance/

Another feed that I have also used and can recommend is a combination of Alfa A lite with spillers slow release cubes.

Have also heard good things about Primero all in one mix

http://www.primeroequine.com/

Most of the feed companies make a high oil/high fibre feed, may just be a case of phoning a few of them, have always found them to be helpful!
 
The trouble is manufacturer's definitions of what is 'low starch' seem to vary a great deal! The Falcon Oat & Barley Free Mix actually is based on wheat and maize so may not be as 'low starch' as some other 'low starch' feeds (which do not normal contain cereals in any significant degree).

The Releve's starch content is 8-12.5% which is what I would classify as a proper 'low starch' feed.

To the OP, I would suggest not relying purely upon the definition 'low starch' but get a definite starch content from the manufacturer if it is not listed on their website.
 
Quite right I had a) behavioural problems and b) poor condition.

I'll just add two of my progress pics here :-

The day I bought him August 2008

16_Aug_2008.jpg


August 2009

11_Aug_2009.jpg


September 2009

23_Sep_2009.jpg


I might try and get a Pic this PM for Comparison as he has changed shape some more. I cant count thats 3
smirk.gif


Yep TGM am on this phase now starch levels
grin.gif
 
They are not a true conditioning feed, but are more calorific than your standard cubes/mixes. If you are feeding to add condition then you can add extra calories in the form of a high oil chaff or alternatively a high oil supplement (micronised linseed is very cost-effective and highly praised on here, although I haven't tried it myself).

However, looking at your photos I don't think you need to add any more condition at all to the horse, and just need to maintain it now, so moving to a slightly less calorific feed will allow you to do that.
 
That's a very good starch level for the Top Up - I know the starch levels for Outshine and Equijewel (which are similar high oil products) are significantly more than that!

PS: The energy contents should actually be expressed in MJDE/kg rather than percentages though!
 
Thanks TGM he does look stonkingly good now but I found to my cost in the past year he can lose it as fast as he gains I have found this post so very helpful and will keep you updated with what I do even if I make a mistake
 
Will be interested to hear how you get on!

(PS: Silly question I'm sure, but I assume he gets as much hay or haylage as he can possibly eat, so enough that there is a little bit left in the morning?)
 
[ QUOTE ]
That's a very good starch level for the Top Up - I know the starch levels for Outshine and Equijewel (which are similar high oil products) are significantly more than that!

PS: The energy contents should actually be expressed in MJDE/kg rather than percentages though!

[/ QUOTE ]

DE levels for Nuggetts are 8.8
Top Up 14.5
a020.gif


ETA: He does look in fab condition!
 
Not a silly question as he's nearly 17hh I know he's got enough haylage when I cant see his eyes but the tips of his ears are still showing.
grin.gif


Seriously he gets enough so that there are just the messy bits in the morning unless I get it completely wrong in the dark and I find that he has enough left for his Tea in the morning.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Not a silly question as he's nearly 17hh I know he's got enough haylage when I cant see his eyes but the tips of his ears are still showing.
grin.gif


Seriously he gets enough so that there are just the messy bits in the morning unless I get it completely wrong in the dark and I find that he has enough left for his Tea in the morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he looks great, my horse currently looks like yours did in August 09 but came to me at the beginning of last month looking far worse, I'm at work so can't put photos up, I will put some up on another thread when I get home. Have you thought about using baileys outshine, it has micronised linseed in it and oil, I'm looking into putting it in Toby's feed to keep the weight coming on. It has been discussed on another forum and users of it really rate it, there are photos of a 24 year old that has been on it and she looks fantastic
 
Am sure you have so many recommendations by now but I really liked the combination of Top Spec Comp balancer, alphabeet or speedibeet and outshine which seems to satisfy your requirements. i changed of it in the summer but will go back onto it once I have finished the rather expensive bucket of vits and mins I bought instead ... and which I dont think is as good by a long way
 
One of my horses has an adverse reaction to sugars, particularly anything which is molassed, which, lots of branded feeds appear to be full of. I've done loads of research into sugar intollerance, which it turns out my mare has. It's so bad that one small feed of anythng mollassed makes her dangerous. She is a Quarterhorse so is very muscular and athletic. Weight gain or loss shows very quickly on her, but, I have found that she does really well on ad lib haylage, not the sort of quality they make for cows, but very mature grass cut late, almost hay standing up, if you know what I mean. I try not to use italian rye grass, just too rich. Also, I feed total eclipse by simple systems, and thats about it. She gets worked everyday, the shortest hack I do is about 6 miles, a lot longer if she doesn't get turned out the odd day.
Basically, it's a complete package really lots of forage thats not full of sugars, plenty of excersise. As you probably know horses only sleep about 3 hrs a day and normally the rest of the time they spend grazing, hence the ad lib haylage. The excersise is important because they normally walk whilst they graze. It's not normal for them to stand still and eat, but you have to do the best you can. I am wary of lots of feed companies advice lines because they are after all in buisness to sell feed. The pictures of your horse are really good, he looks nice, you can see the difference. good luck.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yes I have so many options I just met myself trying to sneak in the side door.
grin.gif


I must admit I dont like too complex a feed regime so I want a solution which is a max of two lots of 'stuff'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you mean, I used to have 4 bins of feed along with bodybuilder, garlic, oil and cod liver condiment. Now I'm down to three bins and garlic but will probably get outshine to add into his feed.
 
But Apple Chaff is 17% sugar?! according to their website, whereas most low sugar chaffs are only 5% or less ( although Good Doer is 8%!!)

I would rather give any horse an oil based chaff instead of one with mollasses in
 
[ QUOTE ]
But Apple Chaff is 17% sugar?! according to their website, whereas most low sugar chaffs are only 5% or less ( although Good Doer is 8%!!)

I would rather give any horse an oil based chaff instead of one with mollasses in

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that because of added molasses or is it because of the natural sugars in the apples.
I have never tried it for that reason, i assumed anything with lots of apples in would be high in sugar.
 
Hi Y'all I am absoluty now bamboozled and flummoxed by all the choices and have narrowed it down to 2 feed supplies based simply on the I cant cope mechanism.

I am weighing up the pro's and cons between :

Spillers: Conditioning Fibre plus High Fibre Cubes

Badminton : High Fibre Nuggets plus Triple Topup

Just a reminder it is a conditioning feed I want but it must be low in Sugar and Starch.
 
What about feeding a combination of Triple Top-Up and Spillers conditioning fibre?
I think there are more suitable feeds out there, have you contacted Allen & Page or Baileys?
 
Hi, I feed speedibeet, boring plain chaff and depending on who its for either badminton fibre nuts or friendship estates (or other make) grass nuts which come in around this Protein: 16%
Oil: 3.5%
Fibre: 25%
Digestible Energy: 10-11 MJ/Kg
Approximate Dry Matter: 90%

I soak the grass nuts for 2 hours before feeding. The horses that are old or need more support do well on the grass nut addition. I've used the badminton fibre nuts and think they are great on either tense warmblood or fatty native type. I've had no problems with grass nut feeding through the winter. I try to keep things simple and add in a balancer, or whatever is needed depending on who it's for. I need to keep my feed bills low as poss. Hope this helps - very happy indeed with the badminton fibre nuggets
smile.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top