Lower level dressage & the use of spurs !

KautoStar1

KautoStar1

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Went with a friend yesterday to an unaffiliated dressage comp, where the standard was variable to say the least (but that is the whole point of unaffiliated comps). Anyway, was shocked to see that almost every rider was wearing spurs. I see no reason for anyone to need to wear spurs for walk trot and canter but I am more concerned to see people using spurs instead of learning to use their legs properly. I appreciate some horses are lazy, but I’d rather see a well-timed kick and then backed up with appropriate use of the whip if needed rather than someone with an unsteady leg position flapping away gouging chunks out of the side of their poor horse.

Isn’t it about time BD banned spurs at lower level tests – prelim & novice ?? If you are good enough for BD then your horse should be in front of your leg enough for the lower level tests and if its not, you shouldn’t be competing.
If BD did this, then surely those running unaffiliated competitions under BD rules would then follow suit ?
 
Disagree with you I'm afraid. The well timed and positioned use of spur should have less of an impact on a horse physically than a big old boot in the ribs. Agree that many riders who use spurs are not able to apply them at the right time and place, but this would not be addressed by banning them from prelim and novice would it?
 
What's the difference between the leg aid being backed up with the whip or with spurs?

I agree that if your leg isn't stable enough you shouldn't use them but as long as your leg is secure enough you can choose between the leg and the spur I don't see the problem and prefer to wear spurs on a lazy horse rather than carrying a whip.

If spurs were to be banned at lower levels, I would expect whips to be banned as well.
 
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I use spurs rather than a whip. A nudge with the spurs is preferable to a smack with the whip.
You can see spurs being used badly at the highest level affiliated .
 
I prefer to use spurs over a whip in competition as if I ever get to the level when a whip is not allowed I don't want my lad 'dropping' me for not having it. I have spurs on every time I ride as when out hacking we'll play around with lateral work, and the spur is a refinement to the aids.

I'll freely admit that he's a lazy sod, he does as much fast work as I can get him to do, transitions both between paces and in the pace every 10 strides, random changes of direction to keep him listening etc etc. He was hunting fit 3 weeks ago and is still lazy! Spurs and a whip are a must have with him.
 
Completely disagree with you, I see just as much poor/incorrect use of spurs and whip...in fact just p*ss poor riding at higher level as I do at the lower.
I hate hearing constant thumbing and banging on some poor horses rib cage where a well placed nudge with a spur, just once will do the trick...the key is to educate at the lower levels of all disciplines, not to ban all equipment they will probably use at home, away from the public eye.
 
I'd rather see neither used & people educated that spurs are for refining an aid not making their horse 'forwards'. At least, this is what all the books I've read say, perhaps I read too much though!
 
Sol said:
I'd rather see neither used & people educated that spurs are for refining an aid not making their horse 'forwards'. At least, this is what all the books I've read say, perhaps I read too much though!
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I see this brought up sometimes and don't really understand it.

If spurs are for lateral work and refining only and not forwards, does that mean everyone who wears spurs to show jump or go xc with are using them incorrectly?
 
I suppose I am concerned about the poor use of spurs (& whips of course) rather than the use of them per say and I accept that there is misuse of them at the higher levels. But to see people do walk / trot tests and banging away at their horses sides with spurs is surely not appropriate and therefore not to be encouraged. By banning their use at lower levels maybe it would encourage people to learn to ride their horses correctly at home – if you can’t use something in the ring its an incentive to get your training right at home ?
I appreciate it may be a simplistic view and there are some very good riders working at the lower levels riding in spurs, but as I mentioned, for walk trot and canter, can this not be achieved without spurs ? and if not why not ? I was taught that spurs were there to refine aids, not to make up for not using your leg and seat aids correctly in the first place.
I just found yesterday’s viewing very uncomfortable.
 
Dressage is all about working in harmony, and appearing to do 'nothing' whilst guiding the horse through technical movements.

There for I'd rather see someone in spurs with a slight moveback of the leg and an immeadiate reaction, than a kick and a crack across the arse with a whip.

I do agree that some people use them and perhaps shouldn't be, so I think at times the stewards / judges should have the authority to request they are removed.
 
I think the issue is the miss-use of spurs rather than the use of them in general.
I use spurs for flatwork as I know I have a still leg. My legs are also very strong but I can give a slight nudge with the spur rather than a welly in the ribs. Using spurs does not mean my horse is lazy or that I am using them as a replacement for riding properly. It means my leg can remain in the correct position while giving her an aid rather than the exagerrated movement of a 'kick'. I also use them when out hacking as I would rather know that I can get her attention and keep her listening to me in an emergency.
Many trainers use spurs on almost every horse they train, often from an early age.
If your legs are in the correct position you can be wearing a spur but not use it on the first ask of the aid, if no response you can slightly rotate the ankle to ask a second time with the spur.
I do agree that there are people that should not b allowed to wear them!
 
totally disagree with you....what's the difference between spurs backing up an aid as oppose to a whip/big kick backing up an aid??

it isn't the fact spurs are PRESENT in lower levels that is the issue, many people I know (including myself) use spurs for basic level walk/trot/canter and lateral work to back up aids - the real issue is simply the fact people are not educated in their use and are using them incorrectly.
 
KS1, I have to say reading your post, as somebody who competes at low level, I found it to be very condescending.

I do not compete BD because I cannot afford to, not because I don't want to.

I wear spurs sometimes to ride and compete in, I can alternate between using my leg and then having a spur there if required. They're the ones with a roller ball, rather than swan neck ones. I'm not the best of riders, but I also wouldn't wear them if I was gouging chunks out of the side. Sometimes one nudge of the spur would take three stronger taps with a whip. Which is better??

Yes the usage of them may be inappropriate sometimes, but how are people going to learn without putting them on??
 
KautoStar1 said:
Went with a friend yesterday to an unaffiliated dressage comp, where the standard was variable to say the least (but that is the whole point of unaffiliated comps). Anyway, was shocked to see that almost every rider was wearing spurs. I see no reason for anyone to need to wear spurs for walk trot and canter but I am more concerned to see people using spurs instead of learning to use their legs properly. I appreciate some horses are lazy, but I’d rather see a well-timed kick and then backed up with appropriate use of the whip if needed rather than someone with an unsteady leg position flapping away gouging chunks out of the side of their poor horse.

Isn’t it about time BD banned spurs at lower level tests – prelim & novice ?? If you are good enough for BD then your horse should be in front of your leg enough for the lower level tests and if its not, you shouldn’t be competing.
If BD did this, then surely those running unaffiliated competitions under BD rules would then follow suit ?
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Have to say that I agree with the op on some points.

I went to watch dressage yesterday and all bar one person was wearing spurs in the walk and trot test. Without wishing to sound bitchy only one person had a stable enough lower leg to be wearing them :o

Personally, and this is only my opinion, I think you should make sure your lower leg is good enough before progressing to wearing spurs. There were quite a few wincing moments watching how some people were using them including the lady that had hers on upside down. :confused:

I would like to see people go without n walk and trot tests as it's surley a test aimed at novice horses/riders?

I'm not against the use of spurs at all as long as they are used correctly.
 
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I'm afraid I'm guilty of using them at dressage (or our loose attempt at it :P ) at a low level. My pony is anything but slow and backward thinking- especially on grass. But he has a lovely wiggly body and they can keep his body on the straight and narrow and help me to control his shoulders and hind quarters.

He doesn't have them on for schooling/lessons at home or when he goes out showing. In the showing, I can mask any of his flaws much easier and plan my show to avoid our bad habits. Unfortunately dressage doesn't allow this so atleast for the time being, we use the spurs :) This is much in the same way that I use them for sj but not for working hunters- I need a quick turn and reaction for SJ but this isn't needed in the working hunter ring. We could live without them but why bother when they enhance our performance :)
 
I would just like to point out that yes, spurs are used to refine an aid, or to make it more clear. Asking the horse to go forward is an aid.

And I completely disagree with you OP, sorry. If the rider can control their legs well enough why should they not use spurs? Mine tends to pin ears etc at the whip and back off entirely. If I need a bit of extra leg, or he ignores my first leg aid, the spur can provide that assurance that I am serious ;)
 
I think a lot of people swing their legs as they are so used to having to kick their horses along, if they had started wearing spurs earlier they might not swing their legs so much.

And unless the horses sides are covered in blood and the horse looks really annoyed they probably aren't really doing much.
 
Completely disagree OP, my horse is near 17hh of massive warmblood thug and tends to lean on my legs which are much weaker than him. I use the spurs basically to remind him that I am there and would rather use my spurs once and effectively, than flap away with my spurless heels!

I used to have this arguement with a dressagey guy on my yard who basically said that really I should go back to walk until I can do that properly and then start to trot, again then wait until my horse is totally responsive before attempting a canter....(I have been PN last year and have a few dressage points so although fairly ineffectual not a total novice). Now yes he was right... and if I had the desire, skill or dedication to actually get to the top I guess that is what I would do....but Ginge is my fun hobby, I have no illusions about my skill level and I want to have fun, which does mean getting out of a walk :) so I admit it...I use spurs as a shortcut so that I do not have to learn to ride properly :p - oohh that was very theraputic actually :D


And Amanda, I do agree with you to a point but again I would rather a young horse learn a clear and well executed aid from a blunt spur than have their responses deadened by random flappy kicking. It probabally depends on the riders level for me.
 
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my recent experience of writing for dressage up to Medium BD would suggest it's not just some unaffiliated riders who have issues with lower leg stability and need to lose the spurs! One last week at Medium was an absolute shocker - legs flapping all over the place and horse completely ignoring her! Actually thought the horse was a complete saint to carry out vaguely the movements of the test despite her complete inability to give any kind of consistent aid.
There's nothing wrong with wearing spurs if you can control when you use them and when you dont. My horse kicks out at the whip so no point using that. He is also inclined to freeze and then do a 180degree spin and a quick dig in the sides with my spurs (blunt ball ended ones) just reminds him I am on top and in charge. If I dared use a whip on him at that point he'd floor me (I've tried!) I dont particularly use them during a dressage test but I wouldn't go anywhere without wearing them.
 
I will sometimes wear spurs on my young horse, I have fairly short ones and I know my lower leg is still on him ( he is incredibly easy to sit on). I have only been out on one prelim in him so far and yes, wore spurs. No hard and fast rules,,just what works for him!
 
I only compete at unaffiliated prelim at the moment and I wear pretty big spurs. I don't use them because my horse is lazy, but because I am tall and struggle to keep my horse wrapped around my inside leg when only the upper part of my calf makes contact with his sides, especially in test situations when there is so much going on outside the arena.

A ban is unnecessary in my opinion - poor use of spurs, whips or any aid - regardless of level - should be reflected in the rider's mark in the collective scores and a comment should be made. Surely that is the point of having judges and getting feedback sheets?
 
To the person who felt condescended, that certainly wasn’t my intention. So I’m sorry you feel that way. I have not mentioned any individuals or even where I was so I am making a general musing. What I saw on Sunday was pretty awful, which is why I raised the question about the use of spurs at the lower levels – by that I mean lower levels tests – Intro, prelim etc. It has nothing to do with whether you ride BD or not (& I don’t so I am not suggesting those that ride at unaffiliated comps are poor riders). And yes, I have seen some pretty dire use of spurs at BD as well, so it’s more about rider ability to use spurs correctly rather than use of spurs full stop.
I can see lots of people use them and feel they have a valid reason for doing so. That’s fine. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be used, but I am questioning the use of them in certain circumstances and I would therefore wonder whether a walk trot or basic prelim test at unaffiliated level (or affiliated) is necessary or appropriate.
Its almost as if wearing spurs has become a fashion statement and just because some leading trainers do it does not mean that everyone should. Riding a great big lazy horse and being quite lightweight myself, I do understand the need for a bit of extra leg power at times. But when you see people spur’ing away whilst their legs are wobbling about and their seat is unstable and they are hanging onto their horses mouth, it makes you wonder whether there needs to be some tightening of the rules.
 
I do understand your concerns, but I still don't see the need for a blanket ban. Judges should comment when they see a competitor using spurs incorrectly or on any fundamental riding fault, regardless of whether they are wearing spurs or not. If riders lose marks and get constructive criticism about the same thing every time they went out, it might encourage them to improve it.

At the end of the day a lot of people riding intro and prelim tests will be aspiring to or already competing at novice level anyway - doesn't mean the standard of rider is going to be that much better.

Personally without spurs I have to either let my horse trot round with an outside bend gawping at things, or resort to trying to getting his attention back with my inside hand (as I used to do unsuccessfully before being introduced to spurs) - neither of which are correct or helpful.
 
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