Lucinda Green article in latest copy of H&H

[kerilli]

I dont get this must have a long rein thing-the head needs to be supported but I agree that you of course need to be able to slip the reins when needed. Surely going XC with washing line reins is asking for trouble?!! Mark Todd always goes XC with his hands firmly stuck at least 1/4 of the way up the neck- one of his best rounds was on Horton Point when the reins were very short and tight and the reason why that round was so beautifull was because the horse was perfectly in balance and well supported, and secure every step of the way.
Whereas someone like Ginny Elliot who went XC with longer reins had her fair share of tumbles and struggles.

I cant see how you can go into a bounce or a difficult combination with long reins?! or indeed any fence? It will cause a loss of balance and the horse will feel insecure

Megabeast's answer to this is right, I think. Since when did long reins = washing line reins?! long does not equal loose. I disagree about Toddy's style of riding, his reins weren't "short and tight" imho and anyway, that isn't what balances a horse! Legs, body, training etc balance a horse, not short tight reins. Whoever mentioned Francis' round is spot on, perfect balance, no fighting, no arguing (THIS is why he's so quick but never looks chancy or dangerous imho). Sooo unlucky today.
I can't quite believe you are criticising Ginny Leng's style (she was the supreme stylist!) or the length of her reins, she really didn't have "her fair share of tumbles and struggles" imho. Priceless never had a xc jumping penalty in his life, for starters. the fall she had on the grey Welton thing at Badders was because he slipped on the take-off stride. the fall off Murphy at Badders was because he totally took over and launched himself, really not her fault. the only other one i can remember was when Griffin dropped into the middle of the bullfinch parallel at WEG, but he was chickenhearted by then anyway, it wasn't rider error at all, she rode forward to it and he decided to try and treat it as a bounce...
sorry, i could go on and on, i'm the biggest armchair critic on the planet probably but credit where it's due. if you want to criticise someone for sometimes having long/loose reins and trusting their horse a bit much, then Lorna Clarke or Vicky Latta might be candidates, but funnily enough their horses always went in perfect balance and they had very few tumbles or problems...
fwiw in a clinic years ago Lucinda Green got us to jump a whole course of jumps (knock-down xc type in arena) with reins on the buckle from the start, not allowed to gather them up, to prove that we could control and steer even with reins that long. hands apart, shoulders back, and it is possible.
the problem with very short tight reins is that if anything happens and you don't slip them, you will get pulled straight into the ground, and kept far too close, as the horse falls...

 

[TarrSteps]

But the first report was the horse was uninjured, wasn't it? So presumably it will run again in due course. It's also likely he was asked when he'd be riding again, it wasn't some random pronouncement.

I noticed that comment too, teddyt. Just goes to show there might be more than more than one "correct" response to a situation.

I do see what LG is saying. But there were also quite a few people at Rolex and Badminton riding with long reins, intentionally or otherwise. Sometimes it worked out, sometimes it didn't. Sometimes they had a run out or missed a line they wouldn't have if they'd had things a bit more under control. True, not a rotational fall but an error none the less.

That is the rich part of this conversation, though. It's all very well to say so and so is making this or that choice because "he/she wants to win" (often said with the implied "too much" on the end) but then WE want them to win, too. WE want the teams to do well, we want medals, we give out team places and money and support on the basis of results. And we expect people to take chances to get that done. Okay, we appreciate it when someone gets that done stylishly but at 4* level it's pretty common to see even admired, established partnerships have some hairy moments. Did Tina end up in the water today because she's a "bad" rider? Did Mary's horse clamber over the flower boxes because she's in the habit of making the wrong decision? Of course not. I also saw some people do some VERY scary things and get away with them.

This is, of course, a different conversation than how the average rider can avoid problems on the average horse at an "amateur" level of competition. Maybe people should be learning how to slip their reins. But then, of course, to do this well, they have to have a stable lower leg . . . . and we're back to the "as many things right as possible" conversation.

The fact is, eventing isn't going to ever be "fall free". Isn't that what people *like* about it? The risk and freedom?

 

[HotToTrot]

I think the horse made a bad mistake at a not terribly nice fence. In fact I thought the horse looked so surprised that it didn't try to get the landing gear out - maybe that's a horse that hasn't had a lot of mistakes in his career and therefore got badly caught out when things went wrong? Hence my thoughts that the fences should allow for *some* degree of mess-up in the event of horse or rider making a mistake. Watching Little Tiger's (horrendous) miss at the coffin at Belton, two things struck me - the fence gave way and the mare made a serious effort to get the landing gear out. Phoebe sat on the back of the saddle and slipped the reins but if either of those two things hadn't happened, she'd have been in much the same situation as Oli....

Video here:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYS9De-wRlo

I agree Kit - when I saw the vid, I thought "Christ, but that girl can ride!". If she had been further forward, I think she may have caused the horse to fall by unbalancing it. As it was, she stayed well out of the way and gave it every chance to recover. Also agree that had the fence been solid, they probably would have come a cropper.

I have a really interesting book by Jane Wallace. In it there is a series of pics showing Toddy's horse flipping over some pick up trucks. He has his shoulders well back and his upper body is either vertical or behind the vertical as the horse flips. OT's upper body, from what I saw, was folded forward in a show jumping position (almost!) as his horse fell. I do think that a "defensive" position seems to be safer. By defensive I mean lower leg fwd, shoulders ready to come back.

As for slipping reins - I thought this was quite standard. Are people not doing it so much now? I wonder why. I drop my reins mid air if we have an awkward jump so as not to catch the horse in the mouth/restrict its movement.

 

[racingdemon]

personally i don't think people do enough riding across country, and by that i don't mean cross country schooling, or the XC phase of an event, but actually galloping & jumping over hedges, rails, fiddly bits of trappy timber, things that help you learn to adapt to the changing feel of your horse as it travels along

i do that out hunting, and yes that's not everyones cup of tea, but there are lots of rides you can do that are over more natural obstacles, BE fences are beautifully built, well presented and laid out, so if you only jump beautiful well presented fences, (and thats the same for alot of xc schooling venues too) how do you learn to react when it goes wrong?

i'm not saying it goes wrong more out hunting (& the like) BUT, you don't know what's the other side, or in front of you, or you might get carved up, so have to make a last minute change to your line, and it helps you to learn to react fast

 

[zero]

Have to say id rate Phoebe as one of the best balanced riders there are competing and surely a lot of that balance comes to the fact that she spent a lot of her younger years riding bearback.

Agree with racing demon to about the hunting thing, not only does it teach you to expect the unexpected but trust your horse more.