Lucinda Green XC Academy

[Ample Prosecco]

This popped up on FB and I liked the description of it, so I have signed up. You get a month's free trial which is pretty good!

Lucinda Green XC Academy | Lucinda Green's Riding Membership

The Lucinda Green XC Academy is your go-to cross country riding learning platform! Access free XC riding resources & tips from Lucinda, and join her monthly membership with live streams, Q&As, ...

www.lucindagreenxcacademy.com

I have watched the first video on fundementals for XC, so that's my home-work for a few months sorted out!

 

[LEC]

I am interested when she interviews other people so try and login for that but you couldn’t pay me to watch LG teach.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I am interested when she interviews other people so try and login for that but you couldn’t pay me to watch LG teach.

Really? Why not?? So far the schooling exercises look good.

 

[teapot]

Really? Why not?? So far the schooling exercises look good.

LG can divide opinion depending on what you go to her clinics for, and for language used that may not be the best in the modern world (speaking from knowing many people who have ridden with her)

 

[LEC]

Really? Why not?? So far the schooling exercises look good.

I fundamentally disagree on so many things she says. The one big issue is she says she never looked for a stride and teaches people not to look for one but she has one of the best feel for rhythm out there and most people do not but this is never developed.

She was taken to court by an old member of HHO for wrecking her horse in a serious accident and lost. I literally scream if she is commentating as it’s so bad and I think you can tell she has had a lot of brain injuries.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I fundamentally disagree on so many things she says. The one big issue is she says she never looked for a stride and teaches people not to look for one but she has one of the best feel for rhythm out there and most people do not but this is never developed.

She was taken to court by an old member of HHO for wrecking her horse in a serious accident and lost. I literally scream if she is commentating as it’s so bad and I think you can tell she has had a lot of brain injuries.

That's awful about the accident. Not looking for a stride sounds dodgy advice - fair enough if you can see one instinctively but others might need to learn this! Oh well the schooling exercises are still useful, so I'll carry on with those.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I literally scream if she is commentating as it’s so bad and I think you can tell she has had a lot of brain injuries.

Was it the Tokyo 2020 XC that she was commentating on? She was so bad that it was cringe making. Her co commentator kept having to cover for her, how he kept his cool I have no idea. Such a fuss that she made about frangible pins, and she had no idea of the penalties incurred if one was activated.

There does seem to be a degree of cognitive impairment, I agree.

 

[teapot]

I fundamentally disagree on so many things she says. The one big issue is she says she never looked for a stride and teaches people not to look for one but she has one of the best feel for rhythm out there and most people do not but this is never developed.

She was taken to court by an old member of HHO for wrecking her horse in a serious accident and lost. I literally scream if she is commentating as it’s so bad and I think you can tell she has had a lot of brain injuries.

Regarding the not teaching to look for a stride, do you think that's partly because most people who have lessons/clinics with her are having a one off, and secondly a lot of her clinics are that first level of 'let's trot over a skinny pole to check your control', not actual xc riding? (I know of someone who was taken aback at that approach because they thought they were safe xc because of hunting every week...)

I don't think you're wrong as it is something that needs to be taught, but I'm wondering whether you can truly do it in a group of six for a one off 90mins? I only know people who have had one off lessons with her, or one a year type, never more regular than that.


Do agree re commentary though!

 

[LEC]

Regarding the not teaching to look for a stride, do you think that's partly because most people who have lessons/clinics with her are having a one off, and secondly a lot of her clinics are that first level of 'let's trot over a skinny pole to check your control', not actual xc riding? (I know of someone who was taken aback at that approach because they thought they were safe xc because of hunting every week...)

I don't think you're wrong as it is something that needs to be taught, but I'm wondering whether you can truly do it in a group of six for a one off 90mins? I only know people who have had one off lessons with her, or one a year type, never more regular than that.


Do agree re commentary though!

This brings me onto another subject… more and more friends who are top BE coaches are coming to the conclusion that xc is dangerous and people should be having 121 lessons on xc as it’s such a personal thing. Pairs maybe if well matched. But of course people are not prepared to spend money on educating themselves properly as seriously expensive. 6 for 90 mins is just ridiculous. I am surprised it’s still seen as a well thought out approach by a supposed top professional coach.

On the matter of rhythm/stride it’s something you develop through hours and not just jumping. Polework will do the same job. People are lazy though so don’t do the hours of disciplined work required to get better.

 

[RachelFerd]

I was a member for a bit. There is a lot of useful content about getting the absolute basics right and educating young horses. I totally agree with a lot of her fundamentals - rough ground training, being able to trot and pop to a fence, being able to halt calmly afterwards, being able to stay in balance and slip the reins. However, there's not much explanation of how to take those skills up the levels (and I think that's because actually, the important stuff about being able to find a distance and hold a line on a set distance, isn't part of LG's teaching).

The people that they get in for interviews are often very good and interesting. However, sometimes I found Lucinda's interviews a bit frustrating because she is a little bit set in that mindset of 70s/80s/90s eventing being somehow better and tougher. Although there was a very funny interview with Hugh Thomas where he basically said that she's completely wrong - that course design now is so much better than it ever used to be, that things are much horse-friendlier than they ever used to be and that the standard of riding now is much better that in it used to be in their riding-era - cue a bit of a heated argument.

I ended up stopping my membership this Spring because I think I've probably got all I'm going to get out of it - but sad to be missing some of the good guests on interview.

To be fair to Lucinda on the teaching side - she does prefer to do 2 day clinics where people practice all the skills in an arena on day 1, and take them onto the course on day 2. That still often isn't enough for horses and riders to be going out onto XC in a safe condition. And she is regularly pulling big bits out of her car boot to assist people with halting etc. when you can't help but think that this would be better done as long-term homework.

I think LEC's point is valid - I'm not convinced that groups of people turning up for a one-off XC clinic with a trainer who doesn't know them or their horses is the optimal way of teaching XC. How do you very quickly establish which parts of the horse/rider education are missing? And how do you ensure people have a good time and come back and pay you for another lesson without totally demoralising them about all of the missing parts of that education - after all, people think they've come to a lesson to jump XC fences, not to be lectured about how they are out of balance and out of control and how their saddle isn't really suitable for putting them in a safe XC jumping position.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Thanks that is really interesting. I am working my way through the 'Greenprint'. For me, the basics are definitely a work in progress and her basic lessons will give my schooling more structure, in a way that I was not getting elsewhere. (Though am from Joe actually). As you say, people who turn up to jump XC, don't want to spend an hour on straight line halt or walk/trot jumping. Though maybe they should! Or at least should be told to go away and work on it.

 

[RachelFerd]

Thanks that is really interesting. I am working my way through the 'Greenprint'. For me, the basics are definitely a work in progress and her basic lessons will give my schooling more structure, in a way that I was not getting elsewhere. (Though am from Joe actually). As you say, people who turn up to jump XC, don't want to spend an hour on straight line halt or walk/trot jumping. Though maybe they should! Or at least should be told to go away and work on it.

Well, exactly. And this is where I always get in trouble on here for being 'elitist', but I do think people teaching XC should be clear about the standard of horse/rider education they expect, before someone comes for a group XC lesson. Like, you would expect someone to be able to canter in balance in a light seat for 4 minutes, to be able to trot to a small log and be able to pull up to walk and halt on a straight line afterwards. For someone to be able to adjust the canter between working canter and an open canter, and be able to do that whilst going uphill and downhill too. But the problem is that there are actually very few people actively teaching those skills at that foundation level - people have dressage and jumping lessons on a surface, but may never stay in light seat for long enough to get good at it. And probably haven't even thought about cantering downhill until they're actually on a XC course. I think there's a role for more people having more generic 'foundational' lessons like you're getting from Joe - and making sure that all the basic skills are in place before going and doing all the specialist training. I organised a Le TREC training day at my yard, and it was super popular - mainly because that was actually a way of doing quite a bit of that foundational education stuff and looking at some of those basic holes in training in a way that didn't just disappoint people.

 

[teapot]

Well, exactly. And this is where I always get in trouble on here for being 'elitist', but I do think people teaching XC should be clear about the standard of horse/rider education they expect, before someone comes for a group XC lesson. Like, you would expect someone to be able to canter in balance in a light seat for 4 minutes, to be able to trot to a small log and be able to pull up to walk and halt on a straight line afterwards. For someone to be able to adjust the canter between working canter and an open canter, and be able to do that whilst going uphill and downhill too. But the problem is that there are actually very few people actively teaching those skills at that foundation level - people have dressage and jumping lessons on a surface, but may never stay in light seat for long enough to get good at it. And probably haven't even thought about cantering downhill until they're actually on a XC course. I think there's a role for more people having more generic 'foundational' lessons like you're getting from Joe - and making sure that all the basic skills are in place before going and doing all the specialist training. I organised a Le TREC training day at my yard, and it was super popular - mainly because that was actually a way of doing quite a bit of that foundational education stuff and looking at some of those basic holes in training in a way that didn't just disappoint people.

Which begs the question of whether the standard of riding (and I include knowledge/experience in that) is dropping? While the need to get out xc or indeed compete has gone through the roof?

LEC makes a great point about costs of training, but I think few are willing to spend it on training when it could be an entry fee…

 

[RachelFerd]

Which begs the question of whether the standard of riding (and I include knowledge/experience in that) is dropping? While the need to get out xc or indeed compete has gone through the roof?

LEC makes a great point about costs of training, but I think few are willing to spend it on training when it could be an entry fee…

I'm not convinced that the standard of riding is dropping overall. I think at the upper levels of eventing the standard of riding is probably better than it has ever been. Is that knowledge and experience filtering down through the levels, probably not. Things like the Howden way are trying to address that, but that still relies on people to choosing to engage with it, and doesn't necessarily go as far as addressing really foundational education gaps.

I think the increasing availability and accessibility of lower level eventing does mean we actively see more poor riding and training in a competition environment than we used to (and social media would be making it more obvious and apparent than it used to be). But then you used to see a world of horrors at a local hunt hunter trial, so I'm not sure anything has really changed there.

And as someone who does a little bit of teaching every now and then, I've lost count of the amount of times over the years someone has said "can I have a jumping lesson because I've entered a SJ competition next weekend" - and then I spend the lesson thinking about how I can politely articulate that maybe the SJ competition isn't a very good confidence-building and training opportunity - but usually that advice isn't taken heed of. Fortunately don't have anyone like that at the moment on my 'occasional' books!

 

[Velcrobum]

The standard of riding at the Cotswold Cup competitions is not great (being generous) and there are rather a lot in 70cm and 80cm who are accidents waiting to happen. The number of competitors with all the expensive gear and no idea are increasing. It will be interesting to see what this years series is like!!

 

[Eventing2022]

LG can divide opinion depending on what you go to her clinics for, and for language used that may not be the best in the modern world (speaking from knowing many people who have ridden with her)

I saw her at a clinic. I was so disgusted and shocked at her language, the words she used, and her attitude to the participants that I complained to the host/organiser and her email address. Got no reply from anyone.

 

[RachelFerd]

The standard of riding at the Cotswold Cup competitions is not great (being generous) and there are rather a lot in 70cm and 80cm who are accidents waiting to happen. The number of competitors with all the expensive gear and no idea are increasing. It will be interesting to see what this years series is like!!

At Epworth (BE) I saw a horse tied to a trailer with the rope directly clipped to the bottom of its dutch gag, attached to a haynet which was tied directly to the lorry without string. Unattended. It does make you marvel at the total absence of knowledge of a proportion of competitors.

 

[Patterdale]

I was a member when it first started, in covid times. I found it really helpful and the interviews really entertaining. It suited my ethos. I left after a few months though because I’d got all I wanted to out of it, I could get back out competing again, and let’s be honest there’s only so much you can glean from online lectures about XC.
I thought it was very professionally done though, and friendly. Lucinda is a kind person, and lots of effort went into keeping it fresh and fun.

I saw her at a clinic. I was so disgusted and shocked at her language, the words she used, and her attitude to the participants that I complained to the host/organiser and her email address. Got no reply from anyone.

She is certainly not of the ‘tell you what you want to hear’ crowd - but why complain? Why not just think ‘wow, that style of teaching doesn’t suit me, I won’t book with them’?
I don’t understand the obsession with Raising Complaints if anyone falls outside the narrowly prescribed view of how we should all behave.

I have had one clinic with Lucinda. Not all of it positive, but overall I had a massive take-away from it. It was day 2, and although I can ride fairly well I was having a huge crisis of confidence at the time. I was trotting between fences, trotting to some of them, and asking to do the tiny options. She said ‘if you don’t want to canter or jump solid fences, why are you here doing XC?’ and I thought - yep, she’s right. Get a grip. Grip gotten, and a really positive session followed.

She was exactly right. Not everyone could have taken it, but it was exactly what I needed to hear. She was also very complimentary about lots of things, and was genuinely kind.

I think it’s important to remember that coaches are human, and that everything you post here is public and permanent. Some of the comments speculating on her cognitive ability are a bit below the belt.

 

[Eventing2022]

She is certainly not of the ‘tell you what you want to hear’ crowd - but why complain? Why not just think ‘wow, that style of teaching doesn’t suit me, I won’t book with them’?
I don’t understand the obsession with Raising Complaints if anyone falls outside the narrowly prescribed view of how we should all behave.

Because she used words like "spast*c" and "retar*ed". Which I find hugely offensive.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Because she used words like "spast*c" and "retar*ed". Which I find hugely offensive.

I think it was your post that came to mind when I saw this post. For that alone, having a family member with disabilities and additional needs, I wouldn't ever pay LG any money.

I don't think using non-offensive language when teaching is a huge ask.

Would people be ok if a famous tennis coach used the same language at a teaching event with spectators? I would be very surprised if people didn't complain.

 

[humblepie]

I have only done about five ODEs in my life but used to groom for a friend at novice back in the late 80s and worked for an Olympic eventer. From a show jumping background watching some of the novice competitors show jumping used to worry me how they’d get on cross country. Was scary. Of course there are the lower height classes now so hopefully better. Claim to fame - did beat Lucinda Green and Regal Realm. Mind you was in a Newcomers class when they were season prepping and we were out to win. I do agree that clinics should be split up based on experience

 

[LEC]

I appreciate many of the basic skills LG teaches are things I take for granted in training young horses through my hunting background and learning along the way from top trainers. I can appreciate a niche for this kind of thing. It just worries me that we are not getting this from home coaches. I get this kind of discussion with my trainers all the time. Do people just turn up for lessons and then go home? Not ask for homework etc?

 

[RachelFerd]

I appreciate many of the basic skills LG teaches are things I take for granted in training young horses through my hunting background and learning along the way from top trainers. I can appreciate a niche for this kind of thing. It just worries me that we are not getting this from home coaches. I get this kind of discussion with my trainers all the time. Do people just turn up for lessons and then go home? Not ask for homework etc?

I think the answer is ..'yes'? Also probably a problem that many people will have someone that comes to them at home for regular lessons (generally flatwork) and then will go elsewhere to better facilities for jumping with bigger name trainers, but those being people who aren't there for the whole journey - they just come and go to these lessons and there's no follow up or progression. Often centred around going to camps where the only reason they're doing a XC lesson is just because it is part of the schedule.

Certainly my set up with various trainers isn't totally ideal, as do have someone specific per discipline who I would generally see monthly, plus a couple of trusted trainers who do group clinics locally who I will also go to. So I probably have input from 5 people at varying levels of regularity, and then I'll occasionally do something like a Howden Way training day on top of that too. So that does generate a fair degree of mixed input - not that at anyone fundamentally disagrees with any other trainer - but no-one of those is seeing what I'm working on with the others etc. I don't think my arrangements are dissimilar, and that spread of input probably does contribute to people ending up with gaping holes in fundamentals, because it isn't 100% clear who's responsible for what...

 

[LEC]

I guess I have had the same trainer for 16 years. We know each other very well, through a lot of horses and we discuss programmes, competition and education a lot. Either on what’s app, in person or at lessons. @TheMule gets annoyed if we share as we chat a lot. I then see other people but I have seen them on and off for anywhere between 4 and 16 years. Even if I do clinics it tends to be with people I have known a long time and have existing relationships with.

Btw when I came back into horses in 2005 I knew nobody, had no horse friends etc. This has all been built up thanks to HHO when it used to be a very decent networking opportunity with very good riders/coaches and through hours of volunteering and running clinics and getting to know people. I have discovered the horse world works on personal relationships and that’s pretty much how I have got all my opportunities. I really had nothing and was clueless when I started in 2005.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Well, exactly. And this is where I always get in trouble on here for being 'elitist', but I do think people teaching XC should be clear about the standard of horse/rider education they expect, before someone comes for a group XC lesson. Like, you would expect someone to be able to canter in balance in a light seat for 4 minutes, to be able to trot to a small log and be able to pull up to walk and halt on a straight line afterwards. For someone to be able to adjust the canter between working canter and an open canter, and be able to do that whilst going uphill and downhill too. But the problem is that there are actually very few people actively teaching those skills at that foundation level - people have dressage and jumping lessons on a surface, but may never stay in light seat for long enough to get good at it. And probably haven't even thought about cantering downhill until they're actually on a XC course. I think there's a role for more people having more generic 'foundational' lessons like you're getting from Joe - and making sure that all the basic skills are in place before going and doing all the specialist training. I organised a Le TREC training day at my yard, and it was super popular - mainly because that was actually a way of doing quite a bit of that foundational education stuff and looking at some of those basic holes in training in a way that didn't just disappoint people.

I think a 'foundations for XC' clinic would be popular. I'd go! Depends what your goals are though. I want to improve and I want Lottie to be a solid, capable, rideable horse. But some people are happy with popping a few 50/60cm jumps and splashing through the water. They don't want to compete and just want the fun of riding in open spaces over small obstacles. Groups offering that are fine imo, and from a safefty pov, I think instructors are pretty good at saying that a person is too wobbly to jump at all. Though having said that, I did once have to refuse to allow a camp participant out onto XC after seeing her in the arena first, and all hell broke loose! So it's not always easy to say no to someone who has paid a lot to be there.

 

[RachelFerd]

I think a 'foundations for XC' clinic would be popular. I'd go! Depends what your goals are though. I want to improve and I want Lottie to be a solid, capable, rideable horse. But some people are happy with popping a few 50/60cm jumps and splashing through the water. They don't want to compete and just want the fun of riding in open spaces over small obstacles. Groups offering that are fine imo, and from a safefty pov, I think instructors are pretty good at saying that a person is too wobbly to jump at all. Though having said that, I did once have to refuse to allow a camp participant out onto XC after seeing her in the arena first, and all hell broke loose! So it's not always easy to say no to someone who has paid a lot to be there.

Yeah, I think a group that is going to have a splash through water, ride up and down a few steps, and pop over a few trottable logs is generally going to be manageable. Although poor you for having to face a conversation with someone who wasn't even safe for that...

I think the dangerzone is more like when people book on a tickbox basis and put themselves in a '90' group say - and actually, what turns up is a scary combination who are expecting to jump a load of stuff. Navigating that, without causing offence, is probably a bit trickier.

 

[sakura]

Because she used words like "spast*c" and "retar*ed". Which I find hugely offensive.

That is terrible. I'm sorry you had to hear that and I'm glad you said something.

 

[millitiger]

LEC sums up my view in post #5.

I would be more inclined to sign up to Piggy March TV or similar, if I wanted some online viewing/ training tips.

 

[Upthecreek]

I think her teaching style and language is outdated. I think some of the basic skills she teaches are timeless and I like her ethos of training horses to think for themselves so they can get themselves out of trouble rather than always micro managing them. I agree her commentating is cringe.

 

[McGrools]

I was a member when it first started, in covid times. I found it really helpful and the interviews really entertaining. It suited my ethos. I left after a few months though because I’d got all I wanted to out of it, I could get back out competing again, and let’s be honest there’s only so much you can glean from online lectures about XC.
I thought it was very professionally done though, and friendly. Lucinda is a kind person, and lots of effort went into keeping it fresh and fun.



She is certainly not of the ‘tell you what you want to hear’ crowd - but why complain? Why not just think ‘wow, that style of teaching doesn’t suit me, I won’t book with them’?
I don’t understand the obsession with Raising Complaints if anyone falls outside the narrowly prescribed view of how we should all behave.

I have had one clinic with Lucinda. Not all of it positive, but overall I had a massive take-away from it. It was day 2, and although I can ride fairly well I was having a huge crisis of confidence at the time. I was trotting between fences, trotting to some of them, and asking to do the tiny options. She said ‘if you don’t want to canter or jump solid fences, why are you here doing XC?’ and I thought - yep, she’s right. Get a grip. Grip gotten, and a really positive session followed.

She was exactly right. Not everyone could have taken it, but it was exactly what I needed to hear. She was also very complimentary about lots of things, and was genuinely kind.

I think it’s important to remember that coaches are human, and that everything you post here is public and permanent. Some of the comments speculating on her cognitive ability are a bit below the belt.