Lunging aid to maintain muscle?

[SEL]

she must be super human


if she is so good why has she not found a natural way to work horses, or tell us why so many horses are unsound

She's done a fair few papers looking at causes of lameness. I read one on PSD and conformation. I pretty sure she did the study on rider weight as well. I'm sure a good Google would turn up more.

I'm not sure there is a natural way to work with horses when sitting a rider on their backs is never going to be "natural"!

 

[Dizzy socks]

she must be super human

if she is so good why has she not found a natural way to work horses, or tell us why so many horses are unsound

Um, because she's excellent at her job, not a magician?

 

[Leo Walker]

I'm all for critical analysis but querying whether Sue Dyson knows what shes doing with lame horses has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

 

[Otherwise]

Sue Dyson apparently has a h index of 42 and her work has been cited 6547 times, I'd consider that fairly credible.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I'm all for critical analysis but querying whether Sue Dyson knows what shes doing with lame horses has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

I think she’s truly great at finding medical diagnosis for lame horses and diagnosing poor performance and recognising pain.

I didn’t perceive she had the same reputation for wholistic rehabilitation methods and believe she’s considered quite clinically negative.

IME a lot of top equine hospital vets In general are rather limited in their rehabilitation knowledge and skills. They focus on diagnosing (and if appropriate surgery).

 

[ozpoz]

She has made plenty of top class horses including Advancedeventers and grade A SJers which I would assume took time! There’s certainly Olympic eventers she’s helped produce too. She spends far longer analysing horses than any of us with non lameness evaluation day jobs will ever get the luxury to do. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised she’s spent more hours critically analysing horses than I’ve been alive! I think she’s pretty much ‘just’ a researcher and speaker now she’s retired from the AHT but I’m not sure?

Sue continues to work on a consultancy basis since retiring from the AHT and is Veterinary Advisor for the Saddle Research Trust. Here's a slightly out of date cv for anyone wondering about her experience.
https://srt2018.com/dr-sue-dyson/
Any gadget used incorrectly can cause harm. And there are so many contributory factors which will cause lameness. Off the top of my head there's injury, bad riding, poor surfaces, saddle fit, rider weight, illness, hereditary weakness and abnormalities, - I don't think there's a one answer cure all, including "a natural way to work horses", which will solve all these problems!

 

[tristar]

I think she’s truly great at finding medical diagnosis for lame horses and diagnosing poor performance and recognising pain.

I didn’t perceive she had the same reputation for wholistic rehabilitation methods and believe she’s considered quite clinically negative.

IME a lot of top equine hospital vets In general are rather limited in their rehabilitation knowledge and skills. They focus on diagnosing (and if appropriate surgery).

yes i agree, and think its an ongoing learning process, the diagnoses then how to rehabilitate in the best way possible and not being afraid to look for an evolution of rehab processes

 

[tristar]

I'm all for critical analysis but querying whether Sue Dyson knows what shes doing with lame horses has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read.

vets also want to evolve rehab and can only use what tools are available, if no new ideas or challenges to using such as pessoas are put forward how can things progress.

the fact that people express their dislike of pessoas and the like so strongly is what makes me think , if its not considered so wonderful for sound horses is it really a good ldea to use them compromised horses?

i think you read what i said and took it out of context

i also use lunging a lot and it takes time to get a horse to work over its back into a natural arc with the back being carried in a rounded way , and really i am an questioning for my own interest why a pessoa is necessary at all, whether the horse is sound or not

 

[tristar]

Sue continues to work on a consultancy basis since retiring from the AHT and is Veterinary Advisor for the Saddle Research Trust. Here's a slightly out of date cv for anyone wondering about her experience.
https://srt2018.com/dr-sue-dyson/
Any gadget used incorrectly can cause harm. And there are so many contributory factors which will cause lameness. Off the top of my head there's injury, bad riding, poor surfaces, saddle fit, rider weight, illness, hereditary weakness and abnormalities, - I don't think there's a one answer cure all, including "a natural way to work horses", which will solve all these problems!

do you think they can cause harm even when correctly used ?

in dressage comps the movements shown are considered to be natural to the horse, a natural way to work a horse, this is why some movement are excluded as not being natural

 

[tristar]

Sue Dyson apparently has a h index of 42 and her work has been cited 6547 times, I'd consider that fairly credible.

but what is exactly is she trying to achieve by using a pessoa and and to rehab which parts of the horse that have gone wrong?

 

[tristar]

She's done a fair few papers looking at causes of lameness. I read one on PSD and conformation. I pretty sure she did the study on rider weight as well. I'm sure a good Google would turn up more.

I'm not sure there is a natural way to work with horses when sitting a rider on their backs is never going to be "natural"!

working to a allow the horse to regain its natural balance and the ability to perform its natural movements under the rider and not impeding or altering the pathways of development by using gadgets

 

[sbloom]

I think the holistic approach is sometimes lacking, that symptoms are seen and treated but underlying causes never are. I will stick 100% with Tristar and the postural more classical approach, and will continue to recommend those vets, osteos and trainers who also work that way.

 

[sbloom]

I have just seen a related discussion on FB and this is a comment from one extremely well regarded biomechanics-rider-saddle expert, with specific regard to kissing spines:

"..it is strange that we dont consider rider saddle horse combination, muscles, rotational issues, long before the problems become so severe.. the ligaments in the back is there to control an extremely intricate movement with lateral rotation is a big one. Cutting the ligaments will reduce a tension, that no one has analysed the cause of. I think we still have a long long way to go.. this is promoting the after. That is lucurative . Promoting the prevention is not.. "

 

[bouncing_ball]

I have just seen a related discussion on FB and this is a comment from one extremely well regarded biomechanics-rider-saddle expert, with specific regard to kissing spines:

"..it is strange that we dont consider rider saddle horse combination, muscles, rotational issues, long before the problems become so severe.. the ligaments in the back is there to control an extremely intricate movement with lateral rotation is a big one. Cutting the ligaments will reduce a tension, that no one has analysed the cause of. I think we still have a long long way to go.. this is promoting the after. That is lucurative . Promoting the prevention is not.. "

LInk to discussion?

 

[jj_87]

I really like the hoe's especially this Harrys Horse "Lunging Aid" https://griffinsequestrian.co.uk/ep...e398-4949-b6db-4db488568093/Products/28400072
It is very very soft so it doesn't rub my horse and gives a little. I occasionally lunge in it, but i like to walk in hand with it on too, It helps my horse engage her core and lift. I do lunge a maximum of once a week.

 

[sbloom]

LInk to discussion?

A closed group on FB.

I really like the hoe's especially this Harrys Horse "Lunging Aid" https://griffinsequestrian.co.uk/ep...e398-4949-b6db-4db488568093/Products/28400072
It is very very soft so it doesn't rub my horse and gives a little. I occasionally lunge in it, but i like to walk in hand with it on too, It helps my horse engage her core and lift. I do lunge a maximum of once a week.

Not aimed at you personally as quite a few people seem to think these are kinder AND effective, I'd love to hear an explanation of how these lift and engage a horse. I firmly believe that once riders and handlers understand what lifting the thoracic sling really means, and its implications, these gadgets will be consigned to history.

 

[tristar]

A closed group on FB.



Not aimed at you personally as quite a few people seem to think these are kinder AND effective, I'd love to hear an explanation of how these lift and engage a horse. I firmly believe that once riders and handlers understand what lifting the thoracic sling really means, and its implications, these gadgets will be consigned to history.

hi bloom, how would you go about encouraging a horse to lift> thanks

 

[bouncing_ball]

My horse has had a range of issues, and he is currently rehabbing with a weak SI / loins and a tendency to drop his sacrum.

Part of my rehab advice has been to focus on work that gets him to lift and inflate in this area.

The three things that work for us

• In hand work done well. I am lucky to have a monthly group in handwork clinic at my yard.
• Reining back in a soft relaxed way with long steps and lowered neck
• Walking and trotting over raised poles as part of ground work

You can actually see the loins / sacrum area inflate with correct movement. And the sacrum stops looking depressed.

 

[sbloom]

hi bloom, how would you go about encouraging a horse to lift> thanks

I send people to experts in the field - straightness training, Dan Wain (someone I work with personally), Manolo Mendez, Karen Rolf, Ritter Dressage etc. Just a saddle fitter but it's important to spot these postural issues early on (so many people just don't SEE it, I confess I didn't, in my former horse-owner life) and send them in the right direction.

 

[Tiddlypom]

hi bloom, how would you go about encouraging a horse to lift> thanks

The Equicore and polework have helped hugely with the rehab my lazy IDx mare has had after her SI joint medication (you can see the clipped area on her loins where the joint was medicated). Her whole top line has muscled up and strengthened - whilst of course the joint medication was a big factor in that, so was encouraging her to learn to move correctly.

My chiro vet recommends walking over raised poles (building up to knee/hock height) rather than trotting as being most effective.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I send people to experts in the field - straightness training, Dan Wain (someone I work with personally), Manolo Mendez, Karen Rolf, Ritter Dressage etc. Just a saddle fitter but it's important to spot these postural issues early on (so many people just don't SEE it, I confess I didn't, in my former horse-owner life) and send them in the right direction.

We did Klaus Schoeneich's straightness clinic last year, and then spent a few days staying with Dan later in the year. Really liked Dan Wain. Hoping to go back early this year.

 

[bouncing_ball]

The Equicore and polework have helped hugely with the rehab my lazy IDx mare has had after her SI joint medication (you can see the clipped area on her loins where the joint was medicated). Her whole top line has muscled up and strengthened - whilst of course the joint medication was a big factor in that, so was encouraging her to learn to move correctly.

My chiro vet recommends walking over raised poles (building up to knee/hock height) rather than trotting as being most effective.
/QUOTE]

I think it depends slightly what you are trying to achieve.

Raised walk poles are better for core muscle than raised trot poles.

Basically as there is no suspension in walk, the horse has to use core muscles to lift. In trot they can use momentum versus core muscles to get over poles.

Both walk and trot raised poles will promote lift in the back and lift lumbar area.

I have specifically been told to do both for lumbar and sacrum strengthening.

Trot poles are better for hind leg activation.

I also like the equicore.

 

[sbloom]

We did Klaus Schoeneich's straightness clinic last year, and then spent a few days staying with Dan later in the year. Really liked Dan Wain. Hoping to go back early this year.

He's awesome, I didn't realise you'd been up to him.

 

[bouncing_ball]

He's awesome, I didn't realise you'd been up to him.

Do you follow my FB closed blog? Lots of videos at Dan's in blog. Think was October last year. And Klaus September.