Lunging- Horse gradually gets faster and faster!

[PaulnasherryRocky]

Hi all!

Just a little query RE lunging-

I have a forward going 12 yr old cob type who is quite new to lunging. He is very sensitive to the lunge whip, so usually this stays under my arm and when relaxed enough I hold it just to desensitize him gradually.
(Very gradually, after 6 months of learning to lunge every time he sees the whip he still thinks i'm going to beat him with it- which I never have and never will!)

Anyway- in trot, he always gradually gets faster and faster and the only thing that slows him down is making the circling ridiculously small.

Other than using my voice and making the circling smaller, I also try to slow down my body language , are there any other ways to get them to slow down or at least stay in a consistent trot on the lunge? Is that a knack to it that I don't yet know about?

He is responsive to transitions, being told to walk, stand etc, just once in the gait I've asked for he gradually gets faster and faster.

(In walk he will gradually get to jog, circle goes smaller back to walk, let the circle out again and he speeds up, back to jog...)

I always end up doing more transitions before he has a chance to speed up, but I'd really like to work on his trot and for that I need to be able to do it for more than 3/4 of a circle!


In case this helps- I lunge him in a John Whitaker Training aid, but it's on VERY loose, purely to get him used to wearing one for now.



Annnd a video URL below of a sponsored ride on him last year...for no real reason!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TLxXYtIs0U&t=40s

 

[Tnavas]

Are you lunging off a cavesson or a headcollar and using side reins? A cavesson and side reins help a great deal with control. Forget the training aid, if it runs behind his butt it's probably sending him forward.

You may need to invest in a second lunge rein and work with two lines, attaching them to the bit

Keep doing transitions back to walk immediately he starts to speed up. Do you have a wall that you can face him into when he starts to get too fast.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

Are you lunging off a cavesson or a headcollar and using side reins? A cavesson and side reins help a great deal with control.

You may need to invest in a second lunge rein and work with two lines, attaching them to the bit

Keep doing transitions back to walk immediately he starts to speed up. Do you have a wall that you can face him into when he starts to get too fast.

Thanks for your reply Tnavas,

Sorry I should have said in the original post- I lunge with his bridle on, and sometimes with just a head collar and seem to get the same result.

The bigger trot that he does, hes really putting some effort in to it and using his body well- I just didn't want it! He isn't running around hollow by any means if that's any use to anyone!


Don't have a wall, but will be going to an indoor school early next year for a "camp" so might make use of the walls there!

Will keep doing transitions and might get somebody more experienced to try with two lunge lines
(I've never lunged with two before- it can only go wrong if both me and horse don't know what we are doing surely!)

 

[planete]

Have you tried quietly holding the lunge whip sightly ahead of him?

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

Have you tried quietly holding the lunge whip sightly ahead of him?

I've not tried this no- Id be interested to actually as the whip has such an effect when I'm just holding it. Maybe it would make him back off a little

Thanks!

 

[Wheels]

How are you using your body language to try and slow him down?

Where are you positioned exactly? In front / behind? Where is your core pointing?

You say he is not a huge fan of the whip - how are you using it when asking him to slow?

 

[PorkChop]

If you can get the hang of lunging with two reins, you will definitely have more control.

Is he fit? If he is, I would be tempted to put him into canter and do lots and lots of canter-trot-canter transitions. Hard work, but will be really good for him and will concentrate the mind

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

How are you using your body language to try and slow him down?

Where are you positioned exactly? In front / behind? Where is your core pointing?

You say he is not a huge fan of the whip - how are you using it when asking him to slow?

On the right rein I position myself slightly behind, this is his better rein when it comes to balance, but his worse rein for confidence and is more likely to try and "face" me. Standing a bit behind on this rein seems to help.
On the left rein i'd say I'm in the middle (or try to be).

With body language I mean I slow myself down when his is circling, so he gets a little ahead of me (my core would be facing his tail). This with voice tends to be how his transitions from walk to halt, or (sometimes) from trot to walk if there is a fair bit of half halting before.

The whip when asking him to slow is tucked under my arm pit out of sight- I know I shouldn't do this all the time so will gradually try to keep hold of it. Before/after lunging I do scratch his itchy spots with the lunge whip and he is nervous at first even with that!

He is, although the easiest horse to deal with in most ways, "sensitive"

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

If you can get the hang of lunging with two reins, you will definitely have more control.

Is he fit? If he is, I would be tempted to put him into canter and do lots and lots of canter-trot-canter transitions. Hard work, but will be really good for him and will concentrate the mind

Interested in this one- yes he is fit so could easily handle this. Normally I try to do less canter as it gets him excited and even more trotty- so I guess in theory the more canter/trot/canter/trot he does it will become "boring" in way?

 

[Wheels]

On the right rein I position myself slightly behind, this is his better rein when it comes to balance, but his worse rein for confidence and is more likely to try and "face" me. Standing a bit behind on this rein seems to help.
On the left rein i'd say I'm in the middle (or try to be).

With body language I mean I slow myself down when his is circling, so he gets a little ahead of me (my core would be facing his tail). This with voice tends to be how his transitions from walk to halt, or (sometimes) from trot to walk if there is a fair bit of half halting before.

The whip when asking him to slow is tucked under my arm pit out of sight- I know I shouldn't do this all the time so will gradually try to keep hold of it. Before/after lunging I do scratch his itchy spots with the lunge whip and he is nervous at first even with that!

Body language - if your core is pointing to the flank or the tail then that = go!

If you stay slightly behind or in the middle of the horse you are correct that it will help to stop him turning in. But if you aim your energy from your core towards his shoulder or even just slightly in front of him what does he do? He should slow down or stop unless he is in panic mode. Try it in walk and see what he does. On the rein where he doesn't turn in you could even be slightly in front of him.

The whip can also be useful for slowing down or stopping but it might not work with your horse if he is nervous of it. Start in walk and walk along the fence line, ask the horse to halt by crossing your whip arm under the other arm and GENTLY raising it in front of the horses nose. This is a useful trick to teach your horse in all paces so that if the usual stopping aids do not work this can be your fall back.

if you want to lunge well you really need him to know the whip - if you point the whip at the shoulder he should take a step or half step out further onto the circle with his forelegs if you point it at the girth area or flank he should speed up and if you point it at the hip / quarters he should take a step or half step out with the hindlegs. All very useful things to properly train a horse rather than just exercise a horse on the lunge

 

[PorkChop]

Interested in this one- yes he is fit so could easily handle this. Normally I try to do less canter as it gets him excited and even more trotty- so I guess in theory the more canter/trot/canter/trot he does it will become "boring" in way?

Not so much boring, more hard work and it will keep him guessing

ETA also if you do the transitions in the same spot on the circle then he will anticipate, turn it more into a game and you will get a smoother transition. I try and do half circle trot, half a circle in canter when I do these.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

Body language - if your core is pointing to the flank or the tail then that = go!

If you stay slightly behind or in the middle of the horse you are correct that it will help to stop him turning in. But if you aim your energy from your core towards his shoulder or even just slightly in front of him what does he do? He should slow down or stop unless he is in panic mode. Try it in walk and see what he does. On the rein where he doesn't turn in you could even be slightly in front of him.

The whip can also be useful for slowing down or stopping but it might not work with your horse if he is nervous of it. Start in walk and walk along the fence line, ask the horse to halt by crossing your whip arm under the other arm and GENTLY raising it in front of the horses nose. This is a useful trick to teach your horse in all paces so that if the usual stopping aids do not work this can be your fall back.

if you want to lunge well you really need him to know the whip - if you point the whip at the shoulder he should take a step or half step out further onto the circle with his forelegs if you point it at the girth area or flank he should speed up and if you point it at the hip / quarters he should take a step or half step out with the hindlegs. All very useful things to properly train a horse rather than just exercise a horse on the lunge

Wow thank you for taking the time to write some really good advice, I really appreciate it. I will give this a go tomorrow evening (Especially walking along the fence line). I will also see what he does when I change my body language as your describe- I might have accidentally been telling him to speed up all this time!

 

[Wheels]

You're welcome - let us know how you get on

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Lots of good advice above. Does he know the word "steady"? I use it on the ground to teach half-halt when leading youngsters, this can then be translated into lunging and ridden work.

 

[madiz123]

I think two basic things could fix things...

1. De-sensitize him to the whip - forget the lunge line for this. Gently wave the whip near your horse, and when he relaxes, stop. Do this a few times until he realizes that by relaxing, the whip goes away. You want to work like this getting the whip nearer and nearer your horse until you can rub it all over him and he is totally relaxed.

2. Get him to turn! Lunge him in a circle around you, take a step back, pass the line into your other hand and bring him in toward you (don't let him walk onto you!), wave the whip in front of him and use it to move his shoulders across in front of you until he is going in the other direction. Do this enough times and he will stop running off because he will expect to change direction. Use this whenever he starts going faster than you'd like.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

Lots of good advice above. Does he know the word "steady"? I use it on the ground to teach half-halt when leading youngsters, this can then be translated into lunging and ridden work.

When I first started lunging he really did understand "steady" when couple with a half halt, but I think I must have over used it, as it doesn't have such an effect any more!

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

I think two basic things could fix things...

1. De-sensitize him to the whip - forget the lunge line for this. Gently wave the whip near your horse, and when he relaxes, stop. Do this a few times until he realizes that by relaxing, the whip goes away. You want to work like this getting the whip nearer and nearer your horse until you can rub it all over him and he is totally relaxed.

2. Get him to turn! Lunge him in a circle around you, take a step back, pass the line into your other hand and bring him in toward you (don't let him walk onto you!), wave the whip in front of him and use it to move his shoulders across in front of you until he is going in the other direction. Do this enough times and he will stop running off because he will expect to change direction. Use this whenever he starts going faster than you'd like.

Never tried getting them to turn without stopping in between, I will have to get hold of a proper lunging cavesson to try this as at the moment have to adjust the line to through the bit to the other side of his bridle- So will try this in future when I have the proper equipment!
Yes will keep trying to desensitize him to the whip, I should start riding with one too really as he can be quite reactive to schooling whips- though he is far more relaxed with them in comparison to lunging.
Thank you!

 

[Arzada]

Never tried getting them to turn without stopping in between, I will have to get hold of a proper lunging cavesson to try this as at the moment have to adjust the line to through the bit to the other side of his bridle- So will try this in future when I have the proper equipment!
Yes will keep trying to desensitize him to the whip, I should start riding with one too really as he can be quite reactive to schooling whips- though he is far more relaxed with them in comparison to lunging.
Thank you!

Have you tried lunging him from a headcollar? You could also try not holding a whip or carrying a shorter whip (short or schooling) and see what happens. You could then build up to a lunge whip or you may choose to stick with a shorter whip or no whip at all.

 

[Shay]

You don't have to use a whip (Unless you are doing the BHS test of course!) I have a highly sensitive ISH who is badly whip shy. I just use my body language - as wheels explained - and a little bit of exaggerated arm movements (arm away from the body on the side toward his rear to say "faster", arms closer to say "Collect", switch hands to say "slow down", drop eye contact to say "stop" etc. and he goes from that. If the whip creates problems - don't bring it in.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

He lunges to the same standard with or without the whip, so when I first started I never used one- I am trying to desensitize him to it now to try and help him gain confidence on the ground.

He is such a bold horse when ridden and isn't scared of anything (apart from his own farts) it's just on the ground he needs more confidence!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Thanks for your reply Tnavas,

Sorry I should have said in the original post- I lunge with his bridle on, and sometimes with just a head collar and seem to get the same result.

The bigger trot that he does, hes really putting some effort in to it and using his body well- I just didn't want it! He isn't running around hollow by any means if that's any use to anyone!


Don't have a wall, but will be going to an indoor school early next year for a "camp" so might make use of the walls there!

Will keep doing transitions and might get somebody more experienced to try with two lunge lines
(I've never lunged with two before- it can only go wrong if both me and horse don't know what we are doing surely!)

Funnily enough it s really not as difficult as it looks, I have had to drop the outer rein on a few occasions to deal with over reactive horses being broken in, and it just trails on the ground ,,,, however I only use thick webbing not the cheapo thin tape.
I would not use, or carry a whip you certainly wont cope with that and two reins and you don't need it .... your horse is forward going, you teach him to change gait by verbal command and just lift the right hand a little bit when he is on the left rein, and vice versa, asking him to have more impulsion, he will see this quite easily, and will understand what it means, if he is whip shy, just don't use one.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

Funnily enough it s really not as difficult as it looks, I have had to drop the outer rein on a few occasions to deal with over reactive horses being broken in, and it just trails on the ground ,,,, however I only use thick webbing not the cheapo thin tape.
I would not use, or carry a whip you certainly wont cope with that and two reins and you don't need it .... your horse is forward going, you teach him to change gait by verbal command and just lift the right hand a little bit when he is on the left rein, and vice versa, asking him to have more impulsion, he will see this quite easily, and will understand what it means, if he is whip shy, just don't use one.

Thanks for your reply EC, I will get back to everyone next week when I try this out (Probably Monday). The only real reason I'm trying to desensitize him to the whip is because he isn't just shy of it when I'm using it- If I am schooling while someone else is lunging he will focus more on them than me! Even if someone else is riding in the school and they are "clicking" their horse on, mine will go faster and their won't haha- I just need him to really trust me more so hopefully doing this on the ground and working my way up will help

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

A Quick update-

Haven't had much time with pony this week, but managed to lunge last night. I've had a go at two things said on here so far.

The first thing I changed was my body language, as I previously used to turn toward his tail to slow him down as Wheels corrected me on this. I have to say he was almost immediately better after slightly changing me position more toward his shoulder when asking to slow, brilliant.

I also did more canter work than I usually would, (Thanks Demented Elf for that advice) and he did better canters than usual and his trot did steady a lot quicker too.

I had a quick go at holding the whip infront of him to make him slow however I think this one needs more work- it did indeed slow him - to a stop for him to turn quickly the other way - more whip desensitization needed for that one I think!

Thanks all for your replies on this, all very very useful information that I will take with me as I try to improve!

 

[Merrymoles]

Just to say, he sounds a lot like my horse whose default setting is also to go faster at any opportunity and is a bit whip shy. If my hacking companion asks her horse to walk on, it's my horse who obeys!

When lunged consistently he is now great but there is often a bit of speediness to begin with. Last night he was a plonker to start and only wanted to canter in our dark, obviously terrifying school. Rather than have a battle, I now let him canter (while maintaining a reasonable amount of control through changing the location and size of the circles) until I can see him starting to blow and think about coming down to trot, at which point I send him on for a couple of circles and then ask for trot which nearly always comes straight away. We can then have a productive session without the silliness and speeding up. He does tend to be the same again when you change the rein but it takes only a minute to re-establish what I want from him.

He is still a work in progress after about three years but his balance has improved no end and he does respond much more quickly now, even when being a daft 'apporth. I also tend to stroke his neck with the whip at the end of every session and he is getting less worried about it as time goes on.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

Just to say, he sounds a lot like my horse whose default setting is also to go faster at any opportunity and is a bit whip shy. If my hacking companion asks her horse to walk on, it's my horse who obeys!

When lunged consistently he is now great but there is often a bit of speediness to begin with. Last night he was a plonker to start and only wanted to canter in our dark, obviously terrifying school. Rather than have a battle, I now let him canter (while maintaining a reasonable amount of control through changing the location and size of the circles) until I can see him starting to blow and think about coming down to trot, at which point I send him on for a couple of circles and then ask for trot which nearly always comes straight away. We can then have a productive session without the silliness and speeding up. He does tend to be the same again when you change the rein but it takes only a minute to re-establish what I want from him.

He is still a work in progress after about three years but his balance has improved no end and he does respond much more quickly now, even when being a daft 'apporth. I also tend to stroke his neck with the whip at the end of every session and he is getting less worried about it as time goes on.

I think yours sounds to have a little more energy than mine! I would describe my horse more as a bit like how new apprentices are at work - just very overly keen! He won't change gait at all unless I ask, but when I ask its immediate, very fast, and just too much of everything!

I have to say though, I appreciate having a forward going horse. Glad to hear yours is still steadily improving too!

 

[Merrymoles]

I think some of it stems from a desire to please (may be kidding myself here) so am possibly more patient than I should be! But yes, certainly not lacking in energy.

 

[rara007]

How many 'trots' do you have? If you practise your transitions between them from just the voice on the lunge you should find you're more able to steady him more than just by saying steady Don't nag just once a lap check he's not crept up into a rushed medium and ask for that transition down.

 

[PaulnasherryRocky]

How many 'trots' do you have? If you practise your transitions between them from just the voice on the lunge you should find you're more able to steady him more than just by saying steady Don't nag just once a lap check he's not crept up into a rushed medium and ask for that transition down.

Ah yes this is something that does really work, I do quite a lot of transitions from walk to trot to walk.

When he is creeping faster I go as if I am about to ask for a walk, but once he is slowing in to the walk I ask for trot again. (This works when I'm riding him, so I think it just translates quite well to lunging)
Sometimes he will jump back in to his wall of death trot, but more consistently it's working to produce just a slower trot!

 

[Wheels]

I had a quick go at holding the whip infront of him to make him slow however I think this one needs more work- it did indeed slow him - to a stop for him to turn quickly the other way - more whip desensitization needed for that one I think!

Yes you could do more whip desensitization but you could also try being much more subtle with the action of the whip or try using a schooling whip instead

 

[peanut]

No additional advice other than I have a similar problem with my very forward going horse and find that two reins is the answer, but love the fun ride video . Is that RAF Latham (?sp) ? Fabulous long gallops