Lunging or schooling

ktj1891

ktj1891

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My YO made a comment the other day that lunging in pessoa or equivalent is really good for strengthening them and building topline. I however said I hate lunging and would prefer to school?


What is better for them? Is there any sort of benefit to lunging in pessoa or equivalent (I have an equi-ami). Personally I only see the cons of lunging plus I think its boring so can only imagine what the horses think.

Any feedback would be great as I am debating whether to school or lunge tonight :)
 
Lunging (or any groundwork) is only as boring as you make it.

I do *lots* of transitions, lots of work over poles (including raised poles, a narrow corridor out of poles, cavaletti, making a box out of poles and varying what you ask them to do/how you approach it) as well as going large with interchanging circles and figures of 8 (I use two cones either end to figure of 8 around). I've begin to introduce more 'classical' groundwork like teaching them to rein back, turn on quarters/haunces too.

You could try long-lining too. I personally just lunge off a headcollar with no gadgets, but each to their own :)

I don't lunge huge amounts at this time of year, but I don't think it's any more 'boring' for them than schooling - after all, if you all you did when riding schooling was trot around in circles, I imagine that would be equally dull!
 
I lunge both ours once a week with the Equi-ami on. My TB was lacking topline when i got him and is looking brilliant and well muscled now and definitely think the Equi-ami helped with that. I like to see them working from the ground too. Bung in loads of transitions, transitions within the pace, poles - you only need to do 20 mins with the Equi-Ami on so not really boring!
 
Lunging is only "boring" if you are not doing it properly. Massively underused and misunderstood tool for training the horse. And the pessoa is a horrid gadget; can you not find someone to teach you how to lunge correctly?
 
I lunge over raised poles once a week just to get my horse using his back fully (without being inhibited by his wonky rider flopping around!!). I just use a headcollar too - seen some interesting toplines on things worked in pessoa, equi ami etc, I think they're difficult to use correctly.
 
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Cortez said:
Lunging is only "boring" if you are not doing it properly. Massively underused and misunderstood tool for training the horse. And the pessoa is a horrid gadget; can you not find someone to teach you how to lunge correctly?
Click to expand...

I am more than happy to learn? What do you mean to teach me correctly?
 
Any BHS qualified instructor should be able to show you how to lunge correctly. You may be able to find someone who specialises in lunging, long lining or free schooling - certainly we have some locally to me. It is sadly common to see people lunging without actually knowing how. It is more than just letting the animal run around you in circles - which I agree is boring for everyone. There is a real technique involved in getting the interesting stuff done with a lunge or longline. And some very serious mistakes to be made which can injure the horse.

I don't agree that the pessoa (or equi ami) is horrid - but it is misused and often not fitted correctly. It is really helpful to have someone take you through the various gadgets, how to fit them, when to use them, what action they have. As well as showing you how to work with two lines and long line; how to safely set up exercises with poles, raised poles and jumps. Even learning how to correctly get transitions can be of massive benefit.

When my daughter was in juniors and we had several competition ponies everything got lunged at least once a week - partly to make the balance between schoolwork and riding easier and partly because it is a good way to assess, and if needed correct, their way of going. Now she's older she can lunge herself - and we have fewer animals!- so I get to lunge less frequently. But it is still a lovely way to spend time on the ground with each horse. Basically one big play session! Lunging done well is certainly not boring for either partner. And for me lunging is an essential part of good schooling because of your ability to see the horse from the ground.

If you can get an instructor to show you how to lunge well it will transform your time with your horse. And it won't be boring!
 
i hate lunging and feel that anything i can achieve on the lunge i can do better and quicker from up top so never lunge (beyond the backing/breaking phase)
 
If you find lunging boring it's because you don't know how to do it correctly or understand how it is useful. It shouldn't be boring for the horse either as it shouldn't be running round in circles aimlessly. On every step of the lunge i have something im asking my horse for - more power behind, more bend, sharper transitions, stretching through their back, stretching over poles etc. But there's no point lunging if you don't know what you are looking for - you see so many people letting horse fall and flop into awful transitions on the lunge and it does them no good and is a waste of everyones time.

Its also a great way to see how the horse is moving without a rider and analyse where they are at - are they favouring one leg to push off?, are they are they stiff on one side?, are they naturally pushing a particular should out for balance, how much weight are they happy to take behind, where and when are they losing balance etc. Longlining as well is super and theres so many dressage moves etc you can teach with it.

I only lunge for short periods, but even in the few seconds a horse goes from walk to trot you are analysing, how was his walk?, how did he strike off into trot, did he lift into the trasition properly or did he just pull himself forward on his forehand? was he responsive when i asked, does he need to be sharper? was he falling one way or losing a shoulder?, where is his neck and what kind of bend is he favouring for balance? is he losing balance when he goes into the trot? is he even behind? are his quarters swinging out for balance? is he tracking up? is his impulsion right? if i ask for more impulsion does he struggle? There's a ton of stuff you are analysing even in a short time.

It's well well worth getting an instructor in to learn how to do it correctly as it's so interesting. Lunging without understanding what you are aiming for is detrimental to the horse from what i've seen. You see people using gadgets without understanding what they are for. You see horses running round out of balance, completely hollow and bent incorrectly. You see people just aimlessly running horses round for too long, in too deep surfaces. You see horses getting away with murder disobeying voice commands. And you see so many people who give inconsistent body language and then give out to the horse for not responding. No lunging is better than bad lunging.

But it's well, well worth getting a good instructor to show you.
 
Shay said:
Any BHS qualified instructor should be able to show you how to lunge correctly. You may be able to find someone who specialises in lunging, long lining or free schooling - certainly we have some locally to me. It is sadly common to see people lunging without actually knowing how. It is more than just letting the animal run around you in circles - which I agree is boring for everyone. There is a real technique involved in getting the interesting stuff done with a lunge or longline. And some very serious mistakes to be made which can injure the horse.

I don't agree that the pessoa (or equi ami) is horrid - but it is misused and often not fitted correctly. It is really helpful to have someone take you through the various gadgets, how to fit them, when to use them, what action they have. As well as showing you how to work with two lines and long line; how to safely set up exercises with poles, raised poles and jumps. Even learning how to correctly get transitions can be of massive benefit.

When my daughter was in juniors and we had several competition ponies everything got lunged at least once a week - partly to make the balance between schoolwork and riding easier and partly because it is a good way to assess, and if needed correct, their way of going. Now she's older she can lunge herself - and we have fewer animals!- so I get to lunge less frequently. But it is still a lovely way to spend time on the ground with each horse. Basically one big play session! Lunging done well is certainly not boring for either partner. And for me lunging is an essential part of good schooling because of your ability to see the horse from the ground.

If you can get an instructor to show you how to lunge well it will transform your time with your horse. And it won't be boring!
Click to expand...

Can you explain to me what it is to lunge correctly?

I am polework when lunging, I did lunge the other day and worked him over 4 poles on a circle. I just though lunging wasn't the best on their joints going around and around in circles all the time. I don't mind lunging occasionally I just took the view that if it was to lunge or school that schooling would be the better option.

I would definitely be interested in learning how to long line better and what I can do when doing it?

I also try transitions but unless you can tell me how to stop him he wont listen to my voice unless I use two lines? I can manage a couple walk/trot transitions but then he gets clever and wont walk anymore as he knows I will transition him back up to trot. I have tried with my voice a lot and I just get frustrated in the end.
 
Hallo2012 said:
i hate lunging and feel that anything i can achieve on the lunge i can do better and quicker from up top so never lunge (beyond the backing/breaking phase)
Click to expand...

See this is what I thought as well surely I can do more from on board than on the ground in a circle? I have no issue with lunging it has its time and place I just wouldn't choose to do it over schooling.

If however, anyone has good points on what i can do whilst lunging/long lining that would be great? Also if someone can explain 'properly lunging' as that seems to have been mentioned a few times. I now confused as to how it is 'supposed' to be done?
 
Pigeon said:
I lunge over raised poles once a week just to get my horse using his back fully (without being inhibited by his wonky rider flopping around!!). I just use a headcollar too - seen some interesting toplines on things worked in pessoa, equi ami etc, I think they're difficult to use correctly.
Click to expand...

I agree with pessoa/ equi-ami although i do think the equi-ami is better! Tbh I get a softer lower frame when he is just in a headcollar!
 
If you find lunging boring it's because you don't know how to do it correctly or understand how it is useful. It shouldn't be boring for the horse either as it shouldn't be running round in circles aimlessly. On every step of the lunge i have something im asking my horse for - more power behind, more bend, sharper transitions, stretching through their back, stretching over poles etc. But there's no point lunging if you don't know what you are looking for - you see so many people letting horse fall and flop into awful transitions on the lunge and it does them no good and is a waste of everyones time.

Its also a great way to see how the horse is moving without a rider and analyse where they are at - are they favouring one leg to push off?, are they are they stiff on one side?, are they naturally pushing a particular should out for balance, how much weight are they happy to take behind, where and when are they losing balance etc. Longlining as well is super and theres so many dressage moves etc you can teach with it.

I only lunge for short periods, but even in the few seconds a horse goes from walk to trot you are analysing, how was his walk?, how did he strike off into trot, did he lift into the trasition properly or did he just pull himself forward on his forehand? was he responsive when i asked, does he need to be sharper? was he falling one way or losing a shoulder?, where is his neck and what kind of bend is he favouring for balance? is he losing balance when he goes into the trot? is he even behind? are his quarters swinging out for balance? is he tracking up? is his impulsion right? if i ask for more impulsion does he struggle? There's a ton of stuff you are analysing even in a short time.

It's well well worth getting an instructor in to learn how to do it correctly as it's so interesting. Lunging without understanding what you are aiming for is detrimental to the horse from what i've seen. You see people using gadgets without understanding what they are for. You see horses running round out of balance, completely hollow and bent incorrectly. You see people just aimlessly running horses round for too long, in too deep surfaces. You see horses getting away with murder disobeying voice commands. And you see so many people who give inconsistent body language and then give out to the horse for not responding. No lunging is better than bad lunging.

But it's well, well worth getting a good instructor to show you.

This >>
 
paddi22 said:
If you find lunging boring it's because you don't know how to do it correctly or understand how it is useful. It shouldn't be boring for the horse either as it shouldn't be running round in circles aimlessly. On every step of the lunge i have something im asking my horse for - more power behind, more bend, sharper transitions, stretching through their back, stretching over poles etc. But there's no point lunging if you don't know what you are looking for - you see so many people letting horse fall and flop into awful transitions on the lunge and it does them no good and is a waste of everyones time.

Its also a great way to see how the horse is moving without a rider and analyse where they are at - are they favouring one leg to push off?, are they are they stiff on one side?, are they naturally pushing a particular should out for balance, how much weight are they happy to take behind, where and when are they losing balance etc. Longlining as well is super and theres so many dressage moves etc you can teach with it.

I only lunge for short periods, but even in the few seconds a horse goes from walk to trot you are analysing, how was his walk?, how did he strike off into trot, did he lift into the trasition properly or did he just pull himself forward on his forehand? was he responsive when i asked, does he need to be sharper? was he falling one way or losing a shoulder?, where is his neck and what kind of bend is he favouring for balance? is he losing balance when he goes into the trot? is he even behind? are his quarters swinging out for balance? is he tracking up? is his impulsion right? if i ask for more impulsion does he struggle? There's a ton of stuff you are analysing even in a short time.

It's well well worth getting an instructor in to learn how to do it correctly as it's so interesting. Lunging without understanding what you are aiming for is detrimental to the horse from what i've seen. You see people using gadgets without understanding what they are for. You see horses running round out of balance, completely hollow and bent incorrectly. You see people just aimlessly running horses round for too long, in too deep surfaces. You see horses getting away with murder disobeying voice commands. And you see so many people who give inconsistent body language and then give out to the horse for not responding. No lunging is better than bad lunging.

But it's well, well worth getting a good instructor to show you.
Click to expand...

Can anyone explain how I should be lunging and achieving all of these things? How the hell do I achieve these things?

On every step of the lunge I have something I'm asking my horse for - more power behind, more bend, sharper transitions, stretching through their back, stretching over poles etc.
 
ktj1891 said:
Can anyone explain how I should be lunging and achieving all of these things? How the hell do I achieve these things?

On every step of the lunge I have something I'm asking my horse for - more power behind, more bend, sharper transitions, stretching through their back, stretching over poles etc.
Click to expand...

NO, you cannot teach lunging on the internet (that may be a surprise!). You need someone teaching you on the ground, with perhaps even a schoolmaster lunge horse for you to learn on. This requires an instructor, a competent, experienced person who really understands the principles and methods of correct lunging.
 
I agree with others that gadgets don't achieve anything apart from hollow horses.

Why don't you start by buying a couple of good books on lungeing? I can recommend the following:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Straightening-Crooked-Horse-Innovative-Straightness/dp/1570766495
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schooling-...218113&sr=1-9&keywords=in+hand+training+horse

These will help you understand a bit more the mechanics and what you are looking for e.g. changes of pace, correct/incorrect bend, and bend is very important when working on lines - none of the gadgets can do this. Encourages stretching which lifts horses off the forehand and stretches the back. No gadget can achieve any of these... they are gimmicks and I'm surprised such well known "trainers" even sell them!

Try and attend some clinics in your area. The Dorothy Marks one is excellent but look out for other "classical" trainers who use lungeing as a training aid.

Lungeing is not "a warm up". Nor should it be used to calm a horse. It should certainly not be "endless circles" or horses "motorbiking".

What it IS, is a suppling, schooling exercise that builds core muscles - it is these that build topline. Everything you do on the lunge or in-hand you should be able to when riding also. Turn on the fore, turn on the quarters, leg-yield, quarters-in, shoulder-in etc.

Personally, I always use a cavesson as I feel that having control at the front of the horse makes more sense when you think about the physics of motion and you have more influence on the "schtelong"/poll-bending and shoulders. Personal preference.
 
tallyho! said:
I agree with others that gadgets don't achieve anything apart from hollow horses.

Why don't you start by buying a couple of good books on lungeing? I can recommend the following:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Straightening-Crooked-Horse-Innovative-Straightness/dp/1570766495
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schooling-...218113&sr=1-9&keywords=in+hand+training+horse

These will help you understand a bit more the mechanics and what you are looking for e.g. changes of pace, correct/incorrect bend, and bend is very important when working on lines - none of the gadgets can do this. Encourages stretching which lifts horses off the forehand and stretches the back. No gadget can achieve any of these... they are gimmicks and I'm surprised such well known "trainers" even sell them!

Try and attend some clinics in your area. The Dorothy Marks one is excellent but look out for other "classical" trainers who use lungeing as a training aid.

Lungeing is not "a warm up". Nor should it be used to calm a horse. It should certainly not be "endless circles" or horses "motorbiking".

What it IS, is a suppling, schooling exercise that builds core muscles - it is these that build topline. Everything you do on the lunge or in-hand you should be able to when riding also. Turn on the fore, turn on the quarters, leg-yield, quarters-in, shoulder-in etc.

Personally, I always use a cavesson as I feel that having control at the front of the horse makes more sense when you think about the physics of motion and you have more influence on the "schtelong"/poll-bending and shoulders. Personal preference.
Click to expand...

That's brilliant thank you. does anyone know if their is any video clips online?
 
I've found a good in-hand one for you...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZkzkZd7Xs

I quite like what Monolo Mendez does (except for the bamboo) but the principles are clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtbAGK9MU0U

Hempfling is an acquired taste but he is amazing to watch... you need the DVD though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsW6zGCGz5Y

There are many, but look for "classical".

And, do enjoy this important bonding session with your horse... they call it an art and it's becoming lost. I'm sure if you really look in to it you will find harmony with it and you will be pleased with the results...

You may get a bored horse with some muscles (in the wrong places) with a pessoa/equi-ami within 6 months ....

... but you will get a dancing partner if you use the principles outlined in a year.
 
Yeah when i was improving my lunging I broke it down into two parts.

The first was my bodylanguage with the horse. I got sessions with a groundwork guy who was amazing, and the first session was just learning to lead the horse correctly and have it locked on to me following my body language, really basic stuff like having it automatically tune with me, and halt and respect my space. Also how to keep it's attention on me and work with me. It was absolutely such basic stuff, but was amazing and completely changed the way i interact with my horses. And i'd had horses for over 30 years at that stage, but it completely opened up another world with them communication-wise. Lunging wise he taught me to get them to respond to very subtle signals for slowing down, halting and changing speed. And the horse i was working on at the time was a rescue xracer who was an absolute loon. And it was amazing to see him be able to just lunge in a headcollar and still stretch down and relax and go forward happily respond to really tiny hand gestures. But it was an education in my knowing exactly what my body was doing and the signals i was giving.

Second part was to learn what i was looking for the horse to do. So understanding what a good transition was, what a good walk was, what a proper trot was. The difference between impulsion and speed, learning where the horse is at balance-wise, when is it bending correctly and when is it just sticking its head in to balance off the lunge-rein. What was good was to learn how the correct muscles move when they are working. I found it great to nab the physio when she was up doing sessions with the horses and just bombard her with questions so that i understood what muscles i should be aiming to improve. So i'd stick the horse on the lunge and try out paces and ask her what muscles were being used. Before that i'd be working the muscles incorrectly and was in the school of accepting a nice outline and assuming it was right. She showed me the error in that and how i needed to build certain muscles before the horse was ready to do certain work. On top of that it's learning basic dressage and learning what a correct pace is for that horse, what a good transition is, what correct bend is and examining how supple or strong behind that horse is at that stage in its education.

So I always think there's a good few areas involved in it and the more you look into it the more you learn.
 
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