lwvtb upping the price at the end of trial

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splashnutti1

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A lady on my yard took on a 15.2 4 year old 6 months a go on loan view to buy, horse was unbroken, underweight and advertised for £600 as a project. This price was all agreed and the person she got the mare of is a personal friend she has known for years so unfortunately it was all done on trust verbally!

It was her friends idea for her to have the mare for 6 months before paying for her as mare was in a bit of a state and it was unsure how she would react to ridden work etc as had a bad start and her friend didnt want her to end up with an unrideable horse!!!

So the lady has broken in the mare and done a lovely job which wasnt easy as she was nervy, they did thier first novice dressage test on saturday and came 4th out of 16 so not bad for first time out, also has done local shows in hand and been placed every time out, mare hacks alone and in company but can still have nervous moments and can be panicky, she needs a calm quiet rider and the lady is perfect for her, the mare really is a one to one horse.

5 months has passed and so the lady decided she definately wants to keep the mare and went up with the money to pay her friend to be told "oh sorry price has changed now as she is broken and schooled, i have someone interested at £3500"!!

The lady doesnt have a lot of money hence went for the cheaper horse, she cant afford the amount being asked but can stretch to £1500 and offered this! The supposed friend is now saying if she cant pay the asking price of £3500 she will fetch the horse back and sell to the intersted party! worst thing is they want it fo a 14 year old girl just moving off ponies so not suitable at all!

I know the answer is probably nothing as is not in writing but said i would ask, is there anything she can do! she is devastated as she loves this mare!
 
this is why id never loan....you get screwed over...!

i very much doubt it.....id take the horse back asap - dump it back on her and tell her good luck with the sale....


and next time buy a £800 horse outright, so no-one else can benefit from your friends hard work!! :(
 
Get your friend to bill the owner for all costs over the past six months, including her schooling charges. This will no doubt come to somewhere around £2900. Friend should then suggest that they offset the charges against the cost of the horse and arrange to pay the £600 difference
 
I don't think there is any real legal cone back here, however how underhand of a supposed friend-if a price was agreed then you'd think common decency would kick in. If the vendor had an idea this would happen, they'd have been better setting a price more in line with what they wanted for the finished article. That way she could have walked away at day dot.
 
I'm assuming as you didn't mention a contract there wasn't one? Don't suppose there's much she can do really.

Apart from write out a detailed invoice for the breaking in and schooling. No, there wasn't a contract for that either but we can all join in playing silly ******* :wink3:
 
The lady needs to prepare a bill covering all her expenses since she took the mare on, including livery, bedding, feed, farrier etc and add on her own charges for having broken and schooled the mare.

Call the owners' bluff and say - 'As you so obviously only let me have the mare so I would break, school and bring it on for you to sell at a higher price, here's the bill for my work so far. You may have the mare back when this account has been settled.'


ETA Cross-posted with Capriole!
 
Even if it was in writing, it would be a silly person who would bind themselves to selling a horse at a certain price at some date in the future with no get out clause.

Basically, your friend wants to force the seller to sell to her. Its just coming down to a negotiation on price now. I guess your friend could try and claim the costs of breaking and schooling from the seller, but equally, she has had use of a horse for 5 months.

I'm sorry , but I don't have that much sympathy for your friend. There was presumably nothing stopping her buying for the original price at the beginning, but she wanted guarantees on how the horse would behave. If you want a bargain, you have to be quick. I think lengthy trial arrangements are a bit of a silly idea really. Its also not really up to you and your friend to dictate who the horse is suitable for.
 
Capriole said:
I'm assuming as you didn't mention a contract there wasn't one? Don't suppose there's much she can do really.

Apart from write out a detailed invoice for the breaking in and schooling. No, there wasn't a contract for that either but we can all join in playing silly ******* :wink3:
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This, if seller is going to go back on her word then your friend can do the same. I'm not sure if there may be some legal standing as it could be classed seller and buyer entered into a legal contract? But I don't understand enough of that to advise.
 
jemima*askin said:
Get your friend to bill the owner for all costs over the past six months, including her schooling charges. This will no doubt come to somewhere around £2900. Friend should then suggest that they offset the charges against the cost of the horse and arrange to pay the £600 difference
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This.
 
I'd sure as hell invoice her for schooling livery. £150 p/w for 6 months = £3900.

Tell the owner she'll let her off the £400 in exchange for the mare.

A letter from the small claims court should help if no joy.

Owner is pulling a fast one and its nasty.
 
Sadly there wasnt a contract as the agreement was suposedly between friends, in hindsight obviously she regrets this but thought she could trust what was a long term close ( supposedly) friend :( She is heartbroken and dissapointed.

I will definately suggest that she presents her friend with a breaking and schooling cost, you never know might work! I personally cant believe her friend would do this and if i am honest having met her i thought she was pretty decent, shows how wrong we can be!!! What a horrid person!

Thanks for everyones support and advise
 
What a dreadful person. Your poor friend :(
I'd definitely bill her for the breaking and schooling, hopefully she can cite that she has evidence in the form of videos, pictures, eye witnesses etc. Of course none of it means anything but at least she'll have made her point.
I can't believe your friend even upped her offer for the mare after being treated like that.
 
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AmiRobertson said:
I have no advice other than what a ********** awful friend and person!
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My reply would be a rewording of this!

Definitely get your friend to present the "friend" with a bill for her services and costs incurred (livery, feed, shoeing, vet etc), that's what the person would have had to pay if they weren't <insert rude words here> and had actually sent their horse away on breaking livery, which is obviously what they wanted!
 
Mithras said:
Even if it was in writing, it would be a silly person who would bind themselves to selling a horse at a certain price at some date in the future with no get out clause.

Basically, your friend wants to force the seller to sell to her. Its just coming down to a negotiation on price now. I guess your friend could try and claim the costs of breaking and schooling from the seller, but equally, she has had use of a horse for 5 months.

I'm sorry , but I don't have that much sympathy for your friend. There was presumably nothing stopping her buying for the original price at the beginning, but she wanted guarantees on how the horse would behave. If you want a bargain, you have to be quick. I think lengthy trial arrangements are a bit of a silly idea really. Its also not really up to you and your friend to dictate who the horse is suitable for.
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i think i didnt put it down correctly, it was the original owners (her supposed friend) idea for the mare to be on loan first, the lady would have happily brought outright but the supposed friend said she wanted to make sure horse was okay before agreeing to sale as didnt want it coming back on her ( we now know the real reason) she made out was thinking of the ladies welfare as she was a 'friend'!

The lady has broken and ridden the horse for 5 months so do think she has an idea who the mare would suit and if i am honest i agree with her the mare isnt suitable for a nervous or novice rider certainly not a young girl.
 
hnmisty said:
My reply would be a rewording of this!

Definitely get your friend to present the "friend" with a bill for her services and costs incurred (livery, feed, shoeing, vet etc), that's what the person would have had to pay if they weren't <insert rude words here> and had actually sent their horse away on breaking livery, which is obviously what they wanted!
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exactly! basically the horse has been broken and schooled on for her at no cost! crafty woman! She has taken advantage of a kind trustworthy lady who is an excellent horse woman and has brought the mare on and done a fantastic job!
 
OP hindsight is such a clever thing and i bet everyone of us would have done something different in hindsight at some point in our lives. sadly other than billing the owner (which i blooming would regardless if gets anywhere) i doubt other than paying price now asked. I feel for your friend having been screwed over by a "friend" sadly i know i will be again at some point as im to trusting :(
 
babymare said:
OP hindsight is such a clever thing and i bet everyone of us would have done something different in hindsight at some point in our lives. sadly other than billing the owner (which i blooming would regardless if gets anywhere) i doubt other than paying price now asked. I feel for your friend having been screwed over by a "friend" sadly i know i will be again at some point as im to trusting :(
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I to am the trusting kind and have been screwed over by so called friends in the past, this is why i know how she feels. Wish i could do something to help this poor lady :( really are some nasty people in this world !
 
What a nasty piece of work. How is owner going to sell the horse, it will go back to them (presumably) and who is going to keep it ticking over until 14 year old can get to see it, then there is riding for the vet etc.

It would be tempting would it not to ring the owner and say horse has suddenly started rearing and running backwards and horse is now turned out awaiting collection. Call my bluff and all that.

Such a shame for your friend.
 
Just off the subject a bit but this is like a horse that was advertised on the fb sites for ages needed work not novice ride sold from field etc advertised for under £1000 around £600 I think,(with a small 'price will increase' note at the end) then a couple of months later horse re advertised (same pics) and asking £3500 a few people were showing an interest and I couldn't help but chuckle when someone commented..'asnt this horse advertised for 'x amount' 2 months ago? I assume Carl Hester has been schooling him for these few weeks??@ Childish I know but comment was removed and horse disappeared from the sites too.. Some people chance their arm..
 
RebelRebel said:
What a nasty piece of work. How is owner going to sell the horse, it will go back to them (presumably) and who is going to keep it ticking over until 14 year old can get to see it, then there is riding for the vet etc.

It would be tempting would it not to ring the owner and say horse has suddenly started rearing and running backwards and horse is now turned out awaiting collection. Call my bluff and all that.

Such a shame for your friend.
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Very tempting to say horse is suddenly being naughty but original owner is only down the road so sees the mare ridden! may be worth a try though!

She is suddenly quite happy to have the mare back until she is sold and unfortunatley has the land and a rider to do just that (although mare has only been ridden by the lady who broke her so would be interested to see how she reacts to this rider with her being nervy?)! The original owner has really planned it well!

Apparently (lady has found out)she was putting it about that the mare may come up for sale if the lady who has her didnt want her at end of loan that is how she has people interested who have seen the mare out and about!!! She knew full well the lady fully intended to buy her!

Just feel so sorry for her :(
 
Maybe there is an argument that your friend does own the horse There was a verbal contract and the price and timings for the horses sale were agreed, the final part of the transaction is handing over the money.
In your friends place I would move the horse, send a cheque for £600 recorded delivery and let the 'old' owner of the horse try to get the police interested in her stolen horse.

Presumably there are texts/emails from when this was all agreed, also your friend has the passport. Who is to say the horse doesn't belong to her now....?
 
xDundryx said:
Just off the subject a bit but this is like a horse that was advertised on the fb sites for ages needed work not novice ride sold from field etc advertised for under £1000 around £600 I think,(with a small 'price will increase' note at the end) then a couple of months later horse re advertised (same pics) and asking £3500 a few people were showing an interest and I couldn't help but chuckle when someone commented..'asnt this horse advertised for 'x amount' 2 months ago? I assume Carl Hester has been schooling him for these few weeks??@ Childish I know but comment was removed and horse disappeared from the sites too.. Some people chance their arm..
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Some people are unbelievable! Sounds just like this woman except she had a poor friend trust her so will prob get away with it!
 
siennamum said:
Maybe there is an argument that your friend does own the horse There was a verbal contract and the price and timings for the horses sale were agreed, the final part of the transaction is handing over the money.
In your friends place I would move the horse, send a cheque for £600 recorded delivery and let the 'old' owner of the horse try to get the police interested in her stolen horse.

Presumably there are texts/emails from when this was all agreed, also your friend has the passport. Who is to say the horse doesn't belong to her now....?
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She does have the passport but not yet in her name as was agreed not to send off till money changed hands! Think she has some texts to this effect ill have to ask her?

I to think she should have some rights , its how to prove it thats the problem! i have advised she speaks to the bhs see if they can help as she is a member x
 
I'd definitely get her to get a copy of ANY written (email/text etc) correspondence regarding the loan between them, write up a bill for her schooling/breaking & livery costs as well as any vets fees and farrier bills. Post the bill to her and ask that she either pays up the bill or lets her buy the horse for the original agreed price.

If not threaten with small claims court (provided she does have some sort of 'evidence' there was a verbal agreement there)
Or like someone has said post a cheque for £600 recorded delivery along with the written evidence of the agreement.

Absolutely despise people like this. UGH.
 
The owner is a very nasty piece of work .
Thoughts spring to mind like feeding the mare six kilos of naked oats a day and sending her back to her owner.(not really serious )
contracts can be verbal but I am not sure how it would work in this situation.
However the owner has changed what was agreed so I suggest your friend seeks to recover her costs from the owner .
Might be worth a call to the the BHS legal helpline to see where this poor lady stands.
I would also be letting the parents of the fourteen year old know what the truth of the situation is somehow .
If I was the buyer in that situation I would look for another horse I would not be party to that .
 
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