Maiden mare

[PurBee]

Sorry to hear the mare’s still not bonding well. One vet website suggested any foal rejection to initially investigate mastitis and pain (from birth, or retained placenta parts) causes.
I was reminded how early on my foal would nose-butt the mare’s udder before latching onto teat, or pull hard on the teat and she would ear pin and raise her leg to stop him doing that, despite it being a good birth and initial drinking sessions, she was an experienced broodmare, but despite that, her udder was sensitive initially for her to react negatively to the colt when he was being rough with udder/teat. So a maiden is not at all prepared for the possible discomfort levels post birth, and many horses react aggressively to pain. You milking her is likely a lot gentler than a foal suckling. With my colt i was taken aback at the time how rough he could be suckling.
Has the vet tried pain killers?

Here’s a fairly broad detailed pdf article covering mare and foal bonding issues which might be helpful:

https://www.vet.upenn.edu/docs/defa...y/mare_and_foal_bonding.pdf?sfvrsn=6e26e0ba_0

Really hope your vet will be able to help more tomorrow. You must be shattered at this point, I hope you’ve got some support on foal checking so you can get a good chunk of sleep at least.

 

[Horses_Rule]

Sorry to hear things aren't going as you'd hoped.

I know there was a NF mare who had stillborn today/yesterday, it was on FB Not sure whereabouts you are.

I know who owns this mare she is in Weymouth if you need any help OP do message me and I’ll do my best to put you in touch !! Fingers crossed for a positive result you so deserve it, you have done a sterling job caring for mare and foal in such a harrowing situation

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

Thank you everyone. We are in Herefordshire

mare has been assessed, placenta was perfect and pain medication has been given initially via injection into blood and now in feed.
The mare tolerates us milking and over night we have been able to latch baby onto mum multiple times, slowly reducing restraint and removing the blindfold. She will now stand for the foal with just a bucket and a little growl and encouragement from us.
However Chilly is attaching herself to us and not the foal through all of this. I do not understand how this can be avoided as we are so heavily involved nursing the filly.
I’m truly gutted and confused, but we are discussing surrogate options with vets today. I cannot see this situation improving significantly enough for the foal to be well and safely looked after by Chilly

 

[AmyMay]

 

[TheMule]

Thank you everyone. We are in Herefordshire

mare has been assessed, placenta was perfect and pain medication has been given initially via injection into blood and now in feed.
The mare tolerates us milking and over night we have been able to latch baby onto mum multiple times, slowly reducing restraint and removing the blindfold. She will now stand for the foal with just a bucket and a little growl and encouragement from us.
However Chilly is attaching herself to us and not the foal through all of this. I do not understand how this can be avoided as we are so heavily involved nursing the filly.
I’m truly gutted and confused, but we are discussing surrogate options with vets today. I cannot see this situation improving significantly enough for the foal to be well and safely looked after by Chilly

I'm so sorry to hear she's still not taking to her baby. Have they been out in the paddock yet? I have heard of a couple of mares that do have their instincts kick in when they are put out and they start to look for their babies.

Good luck, whatever ends up happening it sounds like you have a lovely strong, tough baby

 

[Xmasha]

So sorry it hasn’t worked out yet. As others have said I hope you have some support and are able to get some rest . I’m keeping everything crossed that Chilly comes around quickly x

 

[Clodagh]

You poor thing, you must be at your wit’s end. I hope you can work something out soon.

 

[Ahrena]

I’m so sorry what an absolute nightmare for you, you must be exhausted. I hope you turn a corner somehow soon

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

Thank you for the Facebook group. I will definitely join, I just would like to speak to our vet this morning.
I am physically and mentally drained. I’m devastated really. Not only for the mare and the filly, but this was also the last option left for the mare, we desperately wanted and needed this to work.
She has been out with the filly all day yesterday, she just gallops, understandable as she didn’t get her turnout on Sunday but she is careless and throws her back legs bucking and kicking, she has no care for where the foal is, and would still go for the filly if it came too close. She had no care if the gelding came to the fence to say hello to filly. Once the gelding got through the fence chilly did attack, but also went on to attack the filly after.

I will speak to my vet but I don’t know how to manage them until another mare is found. We have currently let chilly out to graze and kept the filly in the barn with the pony next to her. Chilly went off for an hour, the filly was a little upset but soon went to sleep. Chilly is now back stood looking over the gate at the filly.
I thought at next feeding time I would shut the Chilly in and let the foal out as I don’t want her shut in all the time, she follows me and I go for a jog so she can test her little legs, but I don’t want to create a bigger attachment to myself. I want her mum to be a horse.

Argh this breeding isn’t for me!

 

[Gloi]

Thinking of you xx You must be so exhausted.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Breeding isn't for the faint of heart. It's really great when you get lucky and everything is textbook, but there are many other realities to breeding as well.

However, you do still have a healthy mare and foal even if they cannot be together. Both have survived, just not under ideal circumstances. Hopefully you can get a surrogate and the rest of the foals upbringing can be as normal as possible. A good surrogate would really make things easier on you and I've seen it work out well quite a few times. So fingers crossed ? for the best outcome.

There are a variety of reasons as to why this can happen, but I remember reading something about hormone levels and balancing previously, but of course some mares might find nursing uncomfortable even when there are no obvious issues or might associate the foal with pain and act out. It sounds as though you've really tried to help both the mare and foal quite a bit. So sorry that this has become a stressful and exhausting endeavor.

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

Thank you, I am certainly tired.

Yes absolutely, the situation could be far worse and I do have a lovely filly.
I do wonder if the mares hormones are a bit unbalanced. She appears all over the shop in general.

vets still want to give Chilly a little longer, we are going to try oral sedation

 

[Arzada]

She's a very beautiful filly. Thinking of you and hoping it all works out

 

[nagblagger]

It does sound like your mare is still in shock, like post natal depression?
I had a jenny who refused to let her foal suckle, (mentioned it earlier) but unlike your mare she was protective of her and behaved like a 'mum' should. About 8 months later she developed a mammary tumour (successfully operated on) so in hindsight we wondered whether that was the cause. Nothing abnormal could be seen at the time.

Your filly is lovely, keep posting as it is one post i always read when there is an update, i feel we are on this journey with you.

 

[Fraggle bells rock]

So sorry its not going as you would of planned.
You are doing great though. Mare and Filly seem to be doing great within the circumstances. Which is all down to your hard work and care.
Please do keep posting and feel free to rant if you need to. We are all behind you and wishing that things turn that corner soon ?
Sending h&h hugs x

 

[AmyMay]

Thank you, I am certainly tired.

Yes absolutely, the situation could be far worse and I do have a lovely filly.
I do wonder if the mares hormones are a bit unbalanced. She appears all over the shop in general.

vets still want to give Chilly a little longer, we are going to try oral sedation

In the meantime get a surrogate lined up. Good luck xx

 

[PurBee]

Out of interest L&C, how old is Chilly?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

This article explains some hormone stuff. I didn't want to try to explain it for fear of messing up the specific hormone names, but I think this summarizes it well enough, and there are other sources out there if you run a Google search. Not sure that it applies, but might be an interesting read for someone nonetheless.

https://equusmagazine.com/behavior/foal-rejection/

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

Thank you so much for all your support, I certainly couldn’t of got this far without you all. I do feel like we are in it together!

I will do some reading into hormones

chilly definitely is acting very differently since birth but I guess that would be normal for her. She isn’t as interested in the foal today at all, it’s been going way out of sight and she isn’t at all bothered sadly.
The filly is rather attached to me, I doubt in the circumstances this can really be avoided but it’s sad and makes me worry for another mare to come in but hopefully it will work out.

chilly has a rather extensive back story! Which makes the situation a little harder in itself, but she’s an 8yo

 

[PurBee]

Just in case you need it, i googled for foster mares near you and found a stud that do a foster mare care service in Gloucestershire.

https://www.divinesporthorses.co.uk/foster-mares

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

Thank you so much!

I am torn, I know a surrogate is best but right now my vets want to persist with Chilly since we are able to get the foal nursing. I can understand and I know the majority of mares do improve with this, but I worry now that they’re separated they won’t.

I will listen to my vets and give chilly a few more days with baby nursing, they want to try some oral sedation tomorrow so I think we can only try it

 

[PurBee]

Thank you so much for all your support, I certainly couldn’t of got this far without you all. I do feel like we are in it together!

I will do some reading into hormones

chilly definitely is acting very differently since birth but I guess that would be normal for her. She isn’t as interested in the foal today at all, it’s been going way out of sight and she isn’t at all bothered sadly.
The filly is rather attached to me, I doubt in the circumstances this can really be avoided but it’s sad and makes me worry for another mare to come in but hopefully it will work out.

chilly has a rather extensive back story! Which makes the situation a little harder in itself, but she’s an 8yo

8 years old i guess is old enough for her not to remember her own foaling experience maybe and therefore not transfer behaviour from her own dam coupling memory? Although plenty of older mares when non-ridden due to injury become broodmares and take to it well. Having read a little on foal rejection due to this thread, it seems there’s no definitive absolute cause or way to know beforehand how a maiden will react.

Are there any other foal/dam couples on your yard she could be housed next to in a field to watch healthy interaction and learn from? Clutching at straws for possible methods to help chilly know what to do, as my horses learn by watching me train another horse, so maybe a broodmare/foal couple could ‘teach’ chilly?

 

[PurBee]

Thank you so much!

I am torn, I know a surrogate is best but right now my vets want to persist with Chilly since we are able to get the foal nursing. I can understand and I know the majority of mares do improve with this, but I worry now that they’re separated they won’t.

I will listen to my vets and give chilly a few more days with baby nursing, they want to try some oral sedation tomorrow so I think we can only try it

Its worth trying a few more days as youve got her suckling with assistance without blindfold, so theres some improvement and acceptance there to the process of coupling to foal.
I really feel for you, this isnt the easiest outcome, yet you’re still in the very early days post foaling and chilly may need a week to get her senses together.

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

She may possibly have no idea and unfortunately my horses are at home, we only have another 2 geldings so nothing she could learn from sadly

we have just twitched her and she nursed the foal beautifully, it only took one person to hold the twitch and the foal could find her on way. We have previously had her against a wall, 1 person at her head, shoulder and then one protecting and guiding the foal from the back end, we’ve had to very quick to get the foal straight to the teat to avoid aggravating chilly but this time the foal could feel and find it herself?

this is all so positive, I just hope it re builds the bond, that is definitely diminishing

 

[Four Seasons]

Sounds like there are some positive developments. I can understand the vets wanting to try a bit longer, but can also understand the heartbreak of your little filly, not really having a caring mother.

I really hope Chilly settles down more for you..

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

Yes I can, my vets are trying everything for us and Chilly. I’m very grateful,
but yes it’s also heartbreaking to see the filly alone and at times scared of her mother.

 

[Clodagh]

Twitching releases endorphins in itself I believe, so it might help. You’ll get there. Chilly sounds like she’s making progress, poor thing.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I don't recall the answer to this, sorry if you've said it before, but what is her breeding (the foal)? Just pure curiosity because I am now a bit invested and it came to my mind ?

 

[Louisa&Chilly]

Yes Chilly is with the feeding, just wish it would settle the aggression!

Chilly is an ISH
The stallion was a German Warmblood

 

[Snow Falcon]

Am really hoping your mare settles. Breeding can be so rewarding when goes right but such heartache when it doesn't.