Major hacking issue - HGV's (long!)

Yubbie

Yubbie

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The yard that I'm at is located off of a fairly busy road and my problem is that to get to any of the local hacking routes etc you have to ride along this road.The majority of us always hack out in company & I cannot fault my gelding in 'normal' traffic as he doesn't bat an eyelid at cars, vans,motorbikes, quads, even roadworks - however he has a major problem with oncoming HGV's although he's fine if they come up behind him, so I think that he feels trapped or hemmed in.
Because of this I stopped taking him out during the week and limited myself to early Saturday morning or Sunday's when the volume of traffic was much less. However, yesterday in fairly quick succession we encountered an oil tanker then a skip lorry both bowling on towards the 4 of us who were hacking. My boy just couldn't cope and started shaking, half reared, then spun in an instant as his flight response kicked in and we ended up in somebody's drive in his attempt to get away. This is despite me strongly putting my leg on, having him turned to a slight shoulder in position away from the lorry and always having him on the inside of another horse. But it makes no difference and he just panics and knocks other horses out of the way - plus I've had so many near misses with the vehicles behind us that i know I'll soon run out of luck.

I simply can't go on like this as my confidence has been taking a battering and today when asked whether I was hacking out I simply wouldn't go, in case of what we might meet. My dilema is that I don't have any big ambitions & really do enjoy hacking - I feel quite envious when I see them going off no matter what day of the week it is!!! I know it's not my boys' fault as he is genuinely frightened...... so do I just resign myself to virtually never going out (not fair on him as once we're off road he's a star) or do I think about selling him to a home with quiet hacking & getting myself something that is happy with heavier traffic? All opinions gratefully received!!!
 
A couple of ideas, as I too have mine by a busy road with frequent buses, lorrys, tractors.

One: Can he be led from another horse who is confident with lorries?

Two: Speak to a lorry park or farmer and see if you can take him around stationary lorries inhand. (I have ridden mine into a Scania work shop before but then I know the lads who work there, I also use their weigh bridge ;D)

Three: Do the pastures/school back onto this road, might do him good to look at the road in the safety of his school/pasture.

Just a few ideas
 
I wouldnt risk it - move yards. I was at a yard near an exit of the A3 and people/vans/lorries treated the blooming road as if they were still on a dual carriage way. Ended up never going out through the front entrance having the awful experience of meeting a car transporter - fully laden. I ended up in the ditch. BTW - both my horses had previously been pretty good in traffic but lost if after having too many bad scares. We were lucky in that we had a "back" exit which meant avoiding the worst of it but I am now in a yard where I only have to cross a single B road and the worst traffic we meet are cars racing over ranmore common when I hack on the verges. In fact I now deal with so little traffic I can't honestly say how my horse would behave now!
 
How old is your horse and how long have you had him? This is something you can improve to a degree but I have a pony who is very similar andI've had him 16 years! Still, I have never stopped hacking him I've just worked round it andknow what situation he will react in and what the extent of his reaction will be.

Mine is the same - ok if vehicle comes from behind but if from the front that's when we have a problem. However, it will depend on the type of road as well. If a main wide road then we have little issue but if a narrow road then that's when I have trouble! My way of dealing with it isto just be aware all the time whn i hear something and be ready for a reaction without giving him a vibe I am ready, if you catch my drift! You have to stay calm but firm. With mine weare ok if the vehicle past as it's there and then it's gone and he doesn't have as much time to get in a tizz, he may spin but i will prepare myself for that.

However, if a tractor for example, they approach slower so he has more time to work himself up. I think it's almost more a claustrophobic reaction as again if on a main road he doesn't care. But on a 'normal' road he will react, generally spinning or reversing. the tractor normally will then stop - well they have to with a horse in the road andm what works for mine is reversing him past it. Seems to work for him, oddly he can reverse past things calmly. This is what works for him.

If I am riding him on his own this is the trick to use. If with someone else I will trywedge his head/face on the inside of the not-scared-of-tractors horse and just try ride normally pretending it's not there!

It does take soem brain work and mind over matter sort of stuff - try take your mind off the object so your horse doesn't pick up on your anxiety. Find a method that works for you. It isn't easy and isn't necessarily curable but you can make it manageble. Trust me you can do it, if you want to and this is from someone who swears her pony is just a tractor magnet! Honestly, I hardly meet any tractors when on my 'bombproof' horse!!!
 
Find a new yard or a new horse before you both get killed. My mare is like this (although tractors are worse) and after 17 years she is only marginally better and I have tried every possible approach. It's not worth the risk. You can't control or predict what the traffic you meet will do so either find a new yard without the road risk if you really want to keep this horse or sell the horse and find a traffic proof one if the yard is more important to you. Alternatively transport the horse to hacking areas if you have a trailer/lorry. Sorry if that's a bit blunt but it really is only a matter of time before one or both of you are seriously hurt or killed.
 
We're on a busy road which leads to an industrial estate, an ambulance station and is also a HGV route so I completely understand where you are coming from. I think you need to MAKE yourself go out with others, forget about going on your own for now. The more you do it, the easier it will get, every time you get home safely will boost your confidence no end.

Make sure you hack out with riders who have "nerves of steel" for want of a better phrase - you don't want to be picking up somebody else's worry vibes when you've got enough of your own to deal with.

It definitely helps to have them in a field joining the road. I moved yards and the new place is right on this road. When you see them grazing in the field, not batting an eyelid at police/ambulance/fire service sirens, car transporters, skip lorries, tractors and goodness knows what else it does help you work out what is messing about and what is true fear which again will boost your confidence when out riding. The only thing I've ever seen that really freaked them out was a barking dog in the back of a pick up truck driving down the road, the sound of that did upset them and they were pratting about as soon as they could hear it (I guess they couldn't work it out), but that is the only thing that has.

Otherwise - look for another yard?

Good luck and Be Brave!!! Have a snifter of something before you set off, that might settle your nerves LOL (just like going hunting)
 
If hacking is important to you and it sounds like it is then I would move yards. When I first has Daisy I chose a yard really close to home as I'm DIY and I didn't want a long drive in the morning. A few scary hacks down the main road later and I moved to a yard 20mins drive away. It was the best thing I'd ever done. A longer drive was definitely worth it for lovely off road hacking.
 
PennyJ said:
When you see them grazing in the field, not batting an eyelid at police/ambulance/fire service sirens, car transporters, skip lorries, tractors and goodness knows what else it does help you work out what is messing about and what is true fear which again will boost your confidence when out riding.
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It really doesn't work that way. The horses feel safe within the boundaries of their field. They view things approaching on a road completely differently. I think horses can learn from other horses to feel safe in traffic, but only if their behavior whilst learning remains fairly safe. With some, their riders just wouldn't survive long enough to persevere until the horse learns to accept everything.

OP, if things are just hairy and embarrassing, stick at it along-side a brave, intelligent rider on a rock solid horse. If you might end up killing yourselves, move, box up to off road hacking or sell the horse. I wonder if its safe to use sedalin to help with these things. It might be worth asking your vet.
 
Flame_ said:
It really doesn't work that way. The horses feel safe within the boundaries of their field. They view things approaching on a road completely differently. I think horses can learn from other horses to feel safe in traffic, but only if their behavior whilst learning remains fairly safe. With some, their riders just wouldn't survive long enough to persevere until the horse learns to accept everything.
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Ditto this. I have exactly the same problem as you and my horse reacts the same as yours. I am lucky in that I do have access to bridlepaths via a very short stretch of road, but I can still meet tractors, and basically set out with my eyes and ears wide open and everything crossed!

My mare will happily stand in her yard tied up while a combine passes her, or a tractor and trail manoevre around the yard, or the milk lorry passes within a few feet of her, but meeting up with any of them on the road, and particularly approaching from the front would result in us whipping around and fleeing at breakneck speed from the approaching horse-eating vehicle.

My horse will not change in her attitude, and if any of the "Oh, just put your leg on and pretend it's not there, if you don't react then the horse won't" brigade would like to give it a go - they're welcome!

If I were in your position with the horse I have now I would have no option but to move.
 
If he is able to be led then I would ask an experienced person to ride and lead him in as much traffic as possible; the fact his nose should be tucked into their knee should give him confidence. Make sure they wear gloves, have a longer than normal lead rein with a loop on the end and your horse wears a bridle with the lead rein coming behind and through the bit rings.
 
The Old Appy mare, was awful on narrow roads with big vehicles, could spin on a sixpence, and did. She was much better when we got a large bombproof ex riding school mare, to ride out with her. As long as the big vehcle was going to eat the companion first she was fine, the companion was an amazing girl, who gave off waves of calm. The big girl once took our Appy and two strange horses that we had just met past a double decker bus on a narrow raod, without turning a hair :) So the best advice I can offer is find yourself the quivalent of Molly.
 
If you can move to a different yard with little or no road hacking then def do it. To be honest I don't think I would dare have him lead from another horse, no matter how bombproof the other horse and ability of the rider. You never know what's going to come hurtling towards you on a road and if he got loose, riderless onto the road....god it doesn't bear thinking about!

Could you possibly box him up and take him somewhere to hack? That way he wont have to encounter any traffic. If you're losing your confidence with your boy and other options aren't feasible then yes it might be better to sell. Good luck :)
 
I've posted this before and it's not meant in any way to take away the seriousness of your situation.

I read in one of the Horsey mags of a lady whose horse was terrified of lorries approaching from either in front or behind. She'd had some near misses on the busy roads where she had to hack. The lady and her friend devised a plan. Friend cycled with the lady hacking and every time a lorry was heard, friend would leap off her bike and give the horse a polo. Timing has to be perfect. After a while, the friend didn't need to go with them and at the first sound of a lorry, the lady would stop her horse and give him a polo from the saddle. Soon, the horse was keenly and hopefully straining his ears to catch the faintest distant sound of a lorry - ANY lorry - as he knew he would get his polo. Problem solved until one day the lady's OH decided to take the horse out for a hack. He asked about the lorry business and the lady said oh that's all sorted now. OH happily trotting along the road when the horse hears a lorry far away, over the horizon. Horse stops dead. OH flies over his head into a thick patch of brambles.

Moral of this story? There ARE ways to help your horse overcome his fear but they will take imagination and time. And if you succeed, for god's sake tell everyone what you have taught the horse lol!!!!!!!
 
How far do you have to go along the main road before you turn off to your hacking routes. If it is a relatively short distance then it would be a pity (though may be still necessary) to move yards.

You said that your horse turned into a driveway when the tanker passed?? Would this not be an option in the future if you see an HGV coming towards you - to stand in the end of someone's driveway or lane. We have one horse who is mildly traffic shy with larger vehicles, and this is what we do, as if she stands in the edge of a lane she does not feel hemmed in as much.

Best of luck

Fiona
 
Some horses will never get to be 100% with huge lorries. My old mare (now 18) has got to the stage that she will cope with small lorries, but if we meet the bus or an HGV I either have to find a driveway pronto or we are in trouble. She, like yours, will spin and run! Now where I live its not too much of a problem, they are quiet lanes with plenty of drive ways, but from what you have said that's not the case where you are.

The things that help (but don't competely overcome the problem with mine are - make sure you are on the inside with a super confident horse between you and the traffic (if its not possible to be 2 abreast then try to ride close to the one in front so your horses head is partially shielded by the bum of the one infront). Also make him work along that stretch of road - ride in an outline, do a little shoulder in, anything so he is concentrating on you rather than the traffic. I've even resorted to rustling peppermints in my pocket to distract her!

Ultimately though I strongly suspect you will have to move to a yard with quieter hacking or sell your horse and get one that's good in traffic
 
Again it depends upon what the road is like and how bad your horse is but if he is only bothered when the lorry comes towards you not if it comes up from behind I would have thought that this is the way to tackle it.

Go out in company at quieter times and listen carefully for lorries. If you hear on, turn him away and stand him quietly off the road until it has passed. Obviously not ideal but safer than trying to ride towards the lorry and having him get upset.

Make use of verges, gateways, drives, side roads etc so that your horse isn't faced wiith a lorry heading towards him. Get both of your confidence up hacking without confornting lorries head on.

I'd think about moving yards though.
 
Fiona said:
You said that your horse turned into a driveway when the tanker passed?? Would this not be an option in the future if you see an HGV coming towards you - to stand in the end of someone's driveway or lane. We have one horse who is mildly traffic shy with larger vehicles, and this is what we do, as if she stands in the edge of a lane she does not feel hemmed in as much.

Best of luck

Fiona
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We used to stand our big-traffic shy mare (who I'm sure was claustrophobic) in a driveway or the end of a lane facing the traffic at right angles, with her very steady companion across the entrance. She usually stood very well in these circumstances until the scary object passed. TBH in your position I think I would move yards.
 
Thank you all for your ideas & sugestions. Moving yards seem to be the favoured choice however I've been at this yard for nearly 22 years!! so this would be an enormous step for me to take!

I'm not being negative but the area where I am is just rubbish for off road riding and at least 2 other local yards would give me the same problem.
On a good day part of me still wants to see if i can crack the issue as it is apparent is that the main problem occurs when we meet something big on the narrower parts of the road, unfortunately there are several stretches which have no houses, driveways or laybys so having an escape exit isn't always possible. He is actually much more accepting of HGV's and will walk on far more sensibly if I manage to get them to slow right down to a crawl or better still even stop (which some very nice drivers have done for me before) but that doesn't happen very often!! Bizzarely he'll also happily walk down the track adjacent to the bypass with lorries flying along but because it's around 50 foot away to the side of him with a small hedge to sheild him he probably doesn't feel as hemmed in. Just to reiterate I never hack alone and always go out with traffic proof horses, personally I would not lead him from another horse, but thanks anyway.
 
I have been riding out on the roads (including Central London) for the last 40 years and have escorted numerous nervous horses and riders. Based on my many years of experience I find that horse are either 90% bombproof/spookproof when ridden out by themselves in temprement or are not and those that are not do not get better. They just can not cope and that is that.
 
Yubbie said:
Thank you all for your ideas & sugestions. Moving yards seem to be the favoured choice however I've been at this yard for nearly 22 years!! so this would be an enormous step for me to take!

I'm not being negative but the area where I am is just rubbish for off road riding and at least 2 other local yards would give me the same problem.
On a good day part of me still wants to see if i can crack the issue as it is apparent is that the main problem occurs when we meet something big on the narrower parts of the road, unfortunately there are several stretches which have no houses, driveways or laybys so having an escape exit isn't always possible. He is actually much more accepting of HGV's and will walk on far more sensibly if I manage to get them to slow right down to a crawl or better still even stop (which some very nice drivers have done for me before) but that doesn't happen very often!! Bizzarely he'll also happily walk down the track adjacent to the bypass with lorries flying along but because it's around 50 foot away to the side of him with a small hedge to sheild him he probably doesn't feel as hemmed in. Just to reiterate I never hack alone and always go out with traffic proof horses, personally I would not lead him from another horse, but thanks anyway.
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What if you just turned him round when you hear a lorry approaching and signal for them to pass slowly?? You said he is ok if the approach from behind.
 
Once a horse has learnt to spin and bolt, there is no way you can get him to un-learn it. If you had an accident and survived, but perhaps your horse didnt, how would you feel then? Far better not to be wise after the event, but to be wise before it and move yards!

In todays traffic situations and with todays drivers, some who have absolutely no knowledge of horses and the dangers, you cannot hope to educate all drivers to slow down and be considerate. On narrow parts and with heavy fast traffic, you really are dicing with death.

Unless the local authorities put some real good traffic calming measures in place, I would consider it too much of a risk.
 
Sorry to hear of your difficulties whilst on the road and you have received lots of advice too.
I would just like to mention that my TB decided to take a dislike to a ‘diesel’ taxi once whereby be would freeze at the side of the narrow lane and start reserving onto the verge (and towards the ditch sometimes!). This developed into a problem with any diesel – cars, vans, large lorries, tractors etc. so I decided to get him some ear muffs with fringe (like the ones showjumpers wear) as I think he just didn’t like the noise (very strange I thought at the time considering he was an ex whipper in and used to lots of barking hounds etc). This helped him enormously and he no longer wears his ear muffs and is fine with noisy diesel engines.
 
Difficult one this! My boy used to be scared of all traffic other than cars or very light vans; then I moved to livery at a place where they had tractors, quad bikes etc etc (usually bringing his food!) and he was fine!

If I meet something mega heavy in a narrow lane then he's not too happy with that; but I do think he's a tad claustrophobic anyway as he's a bit spooky in closed-in places. We live in rural Devon and have got b***y great HGV's going down our road which is a total nightmare but they do go past the ponies field regularly. I also have to hack on a bridle path beside the main dual carriageway - if I held out a lunging whip I'd nearly catch the tanker drivers on their windscreens!! - its that close.

If you can it might be a good idea for you to ask a tractor/lorry driver or whatever to drive into the yard or wherever and let him see it in a "safe" environment at close quarters - if you can feed him at the time even better coz then he'll associate it with food - but I realise this won't be an easy thing to arrange. I think someone else has suggested putting him in a field as near as you can to a busy main road and this might help; but again you have the problem of when you're actually out on the road where things are hurtling towards him at close quarters and he's obviously feeling trapped and can't deal with it.

Re. moving to a new yard; mmmm, this maybe your solution, BUT you still might meet scaries even on bridle paths like yobs on bikes, cyclists etc. But if you're feeling you're putting yourself and your horse, plus other road users in danger you might have to make the sacrifice and do the sensible thing.
 
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