Making decisions..... WWYD?

[Lintel]

Just here to write everything down really and maybe grab some advice and opinions whilst here.

Little Shetland is nearing 20, was living wild until rescued 6 years ago by WHW. He is vetphobic and generally life phobic but is very happy here and a chilled dude, minimal disruption, lazy Hipo for a friend and a farrier visit every 7 weeks which he now tolerates.

Lameness/stiffness issues last year, probable arthritis in his hind end, alongside a diagnosis of probable Cushing's. Started on prascend and danilon for the stiff/sore days and some magnetic wraps(just hopeful they would work). Was a slow starter... honestly thought I was going to have to make the call at some point. Then miraculously one day we were fine.. back to normal cheeky self and off the danilon!

Then came laminitis, he is very lean- preferred that way, so took me by surprise, considering how little grass we have(fatty Hipo and him are fairly starved). So we kept in at night and out in 'soft' standing during the day. (He doesn't cope well being in, gets sweaty, anxious and generally just unhappy being in). Then we got better... and it was winter.

So they have been in at night and out during the day on the soft standing mostly but the odd non-frosty half decent day they get out to the grass for 5/6 hours, roughly once a week. We were doing grand but the past month he has been stiffer and sorer looking so we restarted danilon.
A month down the line I don't think he is really any better...

Once he loosens up in the morning he looks much better and is happy pottering around, rolling about and pushing around the Hipo but I highly suspect there is a degree of pedal rotation because of the way he walks and his soles.

I can't have him in all the time... He isn't happy and he gets so stiff.
I can't have him out all the time... he struggles more with his front feet then and becomes more lame in the front.

I honestly don't know what to do.
The vet is out Thursday, will IM sedate for teeth and jags, I'll ask her to take some bloods and give him a thorough going over and have a good realistic chat with her.

I won't have him put through anything that is going to upset him and I won't have him living a life of pain...
Feel at a bit of a dead end at the minute.
Here end'th the moan.
Nobody can really answer the question but WWYD? Or does anyone have any ideas on what to do to maintain happiness and soundness?

 

[windand rain]

It rather depends on what you want to do in terms of treatment x rays of his feet would give you a better idea. To be honest if you cannot treat him he would be better PTS.

 

[PurBee]

It sounds like a up down journey with him...my sympathies.

With most pathologies, except overt acute body injury like pulled tendon etc, i always strip the diet to simple mixed grass low sugar forage, hay preferably as alot of haylage is dodgy and can cause gut disturbance in many, and i focus on gut health initially with a course of protexin probiotics....25 quid a tub, lasts roughly a month.
My horses show allsorts of symptoms when gut beneficial bacteria are out of balance, including footiness.
If the gut is out of whack, slowly the body shows symptoms.

With him being lean it doesnt suggest the usual fatty laminitis pathways causes, so the simple approach is best.

 

[Lintel]

It rather depends on what you want to do in terms of treatment x rays of his feet would give you a better idea. To be honest if you cannot treat him he would be better PTS.

Definitely a conversation I'll be having with the vet, what they x-rays would entail, ie. Could they be portable, and what her treatment plan would be given the probability of pedal rotation.

Thanks PurBee, haylage is a 100% no go in this house! Will have a look into the probiotics ?

 

[ester]

Has he had any follow up bloods since he started the prascend?
I know with mine when he has had off periods it can be tricky to tell how much is coming from the feet, and how much is stiffness.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I would put your magnetic wraps back on.

 

[Lintel]

I would put your magnetic wraps back on.

They were never off I should have said, they remain in place ?

ester- bloods have never been taken due to the trauma of vet visits and it being impossible without sedation (he was treated as a 99% certain diagnosis). Hopefully getting this set taken after the IM sedation on Thursday will give us a good idea to whether the prascend is having an effect.

 

[ester]

Ah yes that makes sense, certainly ACTH def a bit pointless if stressed.

You have the advantage that we do that we can be pretty bespoke management wise, but I have always said that when that becomes not enough we call it a day as we can't do any more. Is improved by daily bute though, the lack of improvement in the last month would concern me. Especially as you do have the soft standing which should be better for the hooves if they are compromised.

 

[southerncomfort]

Not got any answers for you but have plenty of sympathy.

I have a mini shetland who wasn't handled at all until she was at least 10 and she is terrified of everyone apart from us.

The vet and farrier absolutely scare her to death. She has to be sedated to have her feet trimmed. She did get better for a while but then she had 2 vet visits and farrier within a few days of each other and its set her back massively. Even sedated, the farrier couldn't get near her last time he came.

She's due her teeth doing in a couple of weeks and I'm dreading it because I know she's going to find it so traumatic. Last time vet had to do IM sedative to calm her down enough to do IV sedative.

I could weep for her. Sometimes you do wonder how much its fair to put her through.

Hope you get your little one sorted.

 

[ElleSkywalker]

My shetland has very thin soles (also lami ems) and struggles in winter but she wears boots on her front feet and it's made a massive difference. They are equine fusion jogging shoes so designed for riding but she and my other lami pony wear them for turn out when cold and found they real help. They've also worn the 24/7 when needed with both my vet and farriers blessing.

 

[JJS]

My first thought would be that his PPID isn’t controlled on his current dose, hence the laminitis developing even when he was on the lean side.

If ACTH testing is an issue due to him becoming stressed/needing sedation, it can be better to dose based on symptoms alone, so I’d be speaking to your vet to see whether that’s an option, with the view to increasing what he’s currently on.

If he’s getting any hard feed, I’d also check that everything you’re feeding is below 10 percent NSC.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I have a similar sounding pony. He doesn’t get stiff so we don’t do much have arthritis in the equation but he’s been trouble to keep sound. Paper thin soles despite the correct diet, cushings which is treated and remains controlled. Stressy stabled out of his correct routine, ie can’t leave him in for the day.
I had really surprisingly good results with Ron Fields Restore (I think that’s what it’s called!
It may be worth a try, all I can really think to suggest sorry

 

[Lintel]

Thank you all- neither of them are on hard feed as such.. (god forbid the Hipo would be the size of a house) he gets his supplements/prascend and danilon in handful of high fibre cubes as a mash since he won't take it in anything else that we have tried so far, fussy wee sod!