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Tottie

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18 February 2010
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Hello All,
Wondered if you could give some advice?
Had the farrier out to Tottie yesterday. This is only the 2nd time she's had shoes put on.
1st time for the farrier, she had just a trim and was good as gold, 2nd time, we had shoes on her and she played up abit, and yesterday, the farrier only managed to get Front shoes on and had to give up because she was spinning around, kicking out and became too dangerous for him to carry on.
Now, i would like to point out that i have not been there when shes been shod.
The yard has the farrier out every Tuesday morning, as i work full time the YO insisted she didnt mind keeping an eye on Tottie with the Farrier.
I dont think shes at all frightened of the Farrier, i think its just bad manners. She does sometimes spin from side to side when ive pulled her mane, picked her hooves out etc.
So how would you go about teacher a horse good manners?
DO you ignore the bad and reward the good?
Do you use a Firm Hand and a stern voice?
Does a firm hand consist of a slap??

Any advice greatly appreciated!
Many Thanks!
 
i think its more of a case of the horse is scared of the shoeing process.

id be tying her up or putting her in a stable where she can hear see and smell the other horses being shod, get as many people as possible to pick up her back legs and do her feet, and also use a hoof pick to tap around the foot every day to get her used to the nail part of being shod.

i had a youngster that had issues with his back feet, and sedated him at first, then dropped the sedation amount each time. less stressful for the horse and the farrier.

id also want to be there to see what was actually going on.. but then i dont trust many people with my horses.
 
With my guy I used distraction therapy. First time I had him done he was mucking about quite a bit (new me, new yard) and the farrier accidentally got a nail down the inside of the hoof. OOOUCH. The yard owner got hold of him and it was firm voice, firm hold of the HC and then a backhand slap when he really started rearing and trying to spin.

Moved yards and 8 weeks on - different farrier, haynet in front of him, treats and carrots on offer... started mucking about till a carrot was waved under his nose. Has been good as gold since.
 
I would hazard a guess that your filly is not exhibiting bad manners, but objecting to something that she finds both worrying and unable to understand. I'm also really suprised that you choose not to be there to supervise, support and reassure her.

Perhaps a re-think is due?
 
I would make sure you are there in future to see exactly what is going on.

I think that it is more likely your horse is stressed by the experience rather then mad manners & something may have occurred while she is being shod which has escalated the problem.

I also work full time and made the mistake once of letting the yard manager supervise, one bad experience can cause huge problems. It has been nearly 4 months & im only just considering trying to shoe him again.

I suggest you get several different people to handle her feet and bang them ect then be there while she is shod.

Good luck
 
How about some preperation yourself?

teach her to pick her feet up, tap them with your hand, release straight away when she stands still
reward with treats if she is very food orinated?

Do this in an open space and not tied up- hold the rope yourself so that she doesnt feel so trapped? May work
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Hmm, does sound more like she's worried by it. I would maybe try and be there next time to see for yourself exactly what she is doing and how the farrier treats her as well.

It may be she finds it painful to be shod as well. My horse has very thin walls and has always been a pain to be shod as he does not like the shoes being hammered on. Our farrier is very good and very patient but also firm and we generally find the easiest way is to distract horse with some tasty treats! ok, so not ideal maybe but whatever works IMO. All our other horses are good as gold and never move a muscle.

My horse too is a general fidget which doesn't help but he is not aggressive or nasty and so i know he is being genuine. He doesn't kick out though - he just tries to sit down/pull his feet away.
 
What is she like when you handle her feet? If she finds this worrying, you need to do more work with her. Little and ofter is best and make sure you reward her for all good behaviour. If possible get some farriery tools and practice touching her with them (I am NOT saying you should trim or shoe her, only a registered farrier should attempt this - just that you can get her used to the feel of all these different things on her hooves, keeping her foot up for a long while, etc.).

If you can let her see the other horses being shod that should also help.

If all goes well as your farrier if he would be willing to pick up her feet every week he comes so that you can transfer what she learnt with you to him. If he starts with the aim of just holding her legs and not trying to shoe her as such you can reward her for being good and the whole thing will become more positive for her.
 
Thanks all for your responses.
Should have said in my first post, next time i'll be booking the morning of work and supervising to see how she acts.
This was the first time i was told that she was misbehaving.
I do ask after each visit if she was ok, the last time the YO said she was fine.
It was only yesterday that she admitted that she played up slightly last time, but distracted her with a bucket of feed and then she was fine. Had i have know this, i would have booked yesterday morning off work to be there.

I will try the 'tapping' with the hoof pick until i feel shes comfortable and try again with the farrier.
 
If it were me I would want to be there to see the issue first hand so you can make a decision on the best course of action. I feel that being firm (but not agressive) when they are bad and giving treats and praise when they are good. A haynet never goes amiss in this situation. Also, having his mummy there will reassure her that the farrier is an acceptable person to be doing stuff with her and you can reassure her it's fine.

Good luck!
 
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I feel that being firm (but not agressive) when they are bad and giving treats and praise when they are good

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This is a horse that seems to be lacking in education - rather than manners though surely?????
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To be honest SallySmith, i think Tottie may be lacking in both Education and Manners.
Im trying to work on it i can assure you!
She is 6yrs old and i was told she was good for the farrier, dentist etc, however when i got her teeth checked it was confirmed that she'd never seen a dentist before, so perhaps she hadn't had shoes on her before? I'll never know for sure.
But what i do know is that i can now work on things with her with the advice above and ensure i am there the next time she needs the farrier.
If i was aware there was an issue, I would have been there in the first instance.
 
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She is 6yrs old and i was told she was good for the farrier, dentist etc, however when i got her teeth checked it was confirmed that she'd never seen a dentist before, so perhaps she hadn't had shoes on her before?

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Ah, sorry - I had assumed that we were talking about a youngster here.

If it's any consolation, my previous horse had to be sedated for the dentist. Sometimes it's not so much about manners, just a real dislike and distress at something (dentistry in particular).
 
My coloured can be a git for the farrier when he feels like it, I would never have him shod unless I was there, because I know how he ticks, and he seems to respond to me quite well.
I would suggest you accompany her when you try again- you can't pin point whether it is lacking education or manners unless you have seen first hand what she is doing.
 
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Ah, sorry - I had assumed that we were talking about a youngster here.

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No need to apologise! Its difficult advising when i didnt give all the information! (Doh)! Didn't want to bore every one with it but the basics wouldn't have gone amiss hey?! Lol!

thank you all again for your advice! i'll come here again!
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