Many Clouds has collapsed and died ..

[Alec Swan]

To many assuming it had any relevance to his previous problems witjout waiting for the PM results . Certainly several close to the horse do not believe so!

It was interesting, it was I believe Mick Fitz… who when saying that the horse had 'gone down', or words to the effect said that "That's what happens to 'him' sometimes, it isn't unusual and they'll rehydrate him, they're highly experienced. He'll be fine" and from that we can only conclude that he thought it was a return of the previous problem.

Many Clouds previously had a wind op and the reports were positive. He crossed the line with no obvious signs of distress and then he collapsed. Until there is more information given, and accepting that we can only surmise, and as his previous end-of-race problems seemed to be behind him, it would be a fairly safe bet that the poor chap's heart gave out on him.

It's all supposition and we don't know, but I only hope that those who owned, trained, cared for and clearly adored him, don't read the comments where others blame them. MC was only 10 years of age, he had more racing in him but sometimes we just have to accept that these things happen, and that as much as we may like to, we cannot pin the blame label on anyone.

Alec.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It was confirmed late last night that it was a heart attack.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

My first thought was that it was a pity they had kept him going, but of course I have no knowledge of the horse or his veterinary record, so my initial reaction was flawed.
We all know when we send a horse out to race that they may not come back, indeed when they go for a canter they may not come back, when we give them a rub on the face at night, it may be their last night, one never knows, its always a risk.
I think of all the good horses I looked after, who died after retirement from racing, most of them were retired sound, but past their prime, but there is no absolute guarantee they will live in happy circumstances for many years.
It is a race we will all remember, it was exciting, and then, it was gutting.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

His owner was Trevor Hemmings - owner of most of Blackpool with a net worth of around £81million. I don't think he is in racing for the money somehow.

I think you will find it doesn't matter how much money a person has it doesn't prevent them having the desire to make more. Still a very sad day for racing but we will never know that if he hadn't raced yesterday he may have died at home. It's happened and lets hope it will make trainers and owners think twice before pushing an animal beyond its capabilities in the future. Not going to happen I know but we can live in hope.

 

[Alec Swan]

It was confirmed late last night that it was a heart attack.

Thank you, it was always going to be the most likely outcome.

Alec.

 

[popsdosh]

I think you will find it doesn't matter how much money a person has it doesn't prevent them having the desire to make more. Still a very sad day for racing but we will never know that if he hadn't raced yesterday he may have died at home. It's happened and lets hope it will make trainers and owners think twice before pushing an animal beyond its capabilities in the future. Not going to happen I know but we can live in hope.

You show very little understanding of racing and have a warped view of racing. Nobody does it to make money its akin to standing in a shower tearing up £50 notes. Many clouds was not pushed beyond his capabilities in any way what happened can happen at any time even to your own except not in such exposed way! You will not find any more caring owner than TH he has many retired racehorses at his Stud and also gives many away to riders so they enjoy a second career.

 

[ester]

It came up elsewhere about racing him for the money, clearly that is not the case but all the other reasons people race horses could well have applied.
My concern and what I have gleaned from elsewhere is that if the horse is experiencing hyperthermia it may well make it more predisposed to experiencing associated heart issues than if it were not so the two are certainly not unrelated physiologically. I assume that the horse did not get hyperthermic at home or they wouldn't have continued to race him so if that is the case then I am not sure it is accurate to say it could have happened anywhere.

 

[dizzyneddy]

You show very little understanding of racing and have a warped view of racing. Nobody does it to make money its akin to standing in a shower tearing up £50 notes. Many clouds was not pushed beyond his capabilities in any way what happened can happen at any time even to your own except not in such exposed way! You will not find any more caring owner than TH he has many retired racehorses at his Stud and also gives many away to riders so they enjoy a second career.

l believe that TH has done alot in other horse disciplines and l'm pretty sure he owns High Kingdom who Zara Tindall events. If something similar had happened to him after a cross country round l don't think many of the comments that have been said on here would be made. TH is only one of a number of big race owners look at Synchronised the Gold Cup winner who died in the Grand National no one condemned his owner J. P. McManus. Even George Washington and Red Cadeaux died after breaking legs racing on the flat. It's sadly one of those things that happens in any sport. Everyone who's into horse racing were anticipating a clash between Many Clouds and Thistlecrack and they didn't half battle it out. Without some of the big race owners that we have both on the flat and NH l think racing would not be the same.

 

[ycbm]

If something similar had happened .... after a cross country round don't think many of the comments that have been said on here would be made. .

I'm sorry I disagree. If something like it happened to a horse which had previously collapsed at the end of cross country or required oxygen to be administered to prevent it collapsing, more than once, then the leisure horse world would have gone absolutely berserk that the horse was ever run again and then died at the end of the course.

 

[ycbm]

I think you will find it doesn't matter how much money a person has it doesn't prevent them having the desire to make more. Still a very sad day for racing but we will never know that if he hadn't raced yesterday he may have died at home. It's happened and lets hope it will make trainers and owners think twice before pushing an animal beyond its capabilities in the future. Not going to happen I know but we can live in hope.

It's not the desire to make more money that drives these people (my brother is one and my OH and I have worked with others) is the winning. It is fundamental to their psyche to win, whatever they do.

 

[popsdosh]

It came up elsewhere about racing him for the money, clearly that is not the case but all the other reasons people race horses could well have applied.
My concern and what I have gleaned from elsewhere is that if the horse is experiencing hyperthermia it may well make it more predisposed to experiencing associated heart issues than if it were not so the two are certainly not unrelated physiologically. I assume that the horse did not get hyperthermic at home or they wouldn't have continued to race him so if that is the case then I am not sure it is accurate to say it could have happened anywhere.

Where have you got the notion he suffered with hypothermia thats way off the mark. That horse would not have run if his condition put him at risk of a heart attack full stop

 

[popsdosh]

I'm sorry I disagree. If something like it happened to a horse which had previously collapsed at the end of cross country or required oxygen to be administered to prevent it collapsing, more than once, then the leisure horse world would have gone absolutely berserk that the horse was ever run again and then died at the end of the course.

I really suggest some time you go through the losses in 4* eventing including of course the ones you dont see and see if you change your mind.Its just in racing it is very public. Having been involved in many horse sports racing has by far the best welfare measures in place for the horses taking part. They really have to because everybody sees it when it goes wrong.

 

[be positive]

Where have you got the notion he suffered with hypothermia thats way off the mark. That horse would not have run if his condition put him at risk of a heart attack full stop

It is well known that he suffered from hyperthermia after winning at Aintree and that measures were in place to help cool him after other races, the wind op was done in an effort to help as being unable to breathe efficiently would have a bearing on his ability to maintain his temperature and get it down after the effort of a race.
I am sure they never expected his life to be cut short by this condition but there is a connection, to suggest it is certainly not way off the mark, although it would be if he suffered from hypothermia which is highly unlikely during a race.

 

[ester]

what be positive said, hyperthermia not hypo! Well known and not way off the mark so as to be totally inconsequential from the physiology boffs I have spoken to about it.

 

[ycbm]

I really suggest some time you go through the losses in 4* eventing including of course the ones you dont see and see if you change your mind.Its just in racing it is very public. Having been involved in many horse sports racing has by far the best welfare measures in place for the horses taking part. They really have to because everybody sees it when it goes wrong.

Arghh, come on Popsdosh. You know full well that the losses in four star eventing bear no comparison to the 1 in 250 starters deaths on the course in NH racing. It would mean that several horses a year would die on the course, and they don't, it's a rare occurrence. And if 4* deaths behind the scenes are greater than the number of NH horses shot once they get home due to injuries sustained in training or on the course I'll eat my hat.

I'm not saying this is good, bad, or indifferent, but there is simply no sense in trying to convince anyone that any other equestrian discipline matches the death rates of NH racing. They don't come anywhere close.

 

[Alec Swan]

Well, I've learned something and I'd suggest that those with an interest google HypERthermia and HypOthermia. They're virtual opposites of each other, it seems!

By all accounts at the end of a race and after extensive energy expenditure, one (nope, I'm not going back to check!) can result in a sudden and occasionally catastrophic drop in blood pressure with death being the usual outcome.

Alec.

 

[ester]

same with everything Alec always opposite you just add another sciencey word on the end, like diabetics get hypo and hyper glycaemia

 

[popsdosh]

Arghh, come on Popsdosh. You know full well that the losses in four star eventing bear no comparison to the 1 in 250 starters deaths on the course in NH racing. It would mean that several horses a year would die on the course, and they don't, it's a rare occurrence. And if 4* deaths behind the scenes are greater than the number of NH horses shot once they get home due to injuries sustained in training or on the course I'll eat my hat.

I'm not saying this is good, bad, or indifferent, but there is simply no sense in trying to convince anyone that any other equestrian discipline matches the death rates of NH racing. They don't come anywhere close.

Fatality rate is one in 289 starters in FEI 4* competition its all available to research if you know where to look.Think about it as on average one in every 3 4* competitions and its not so far fetched.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

And if 4* deaths behind the scenes are greater than the number of NH horses shot once they get home due to injuries sustained in training or on the course I'll eat my hat.

I saved one from this fate. We were sitting having lunch at Newcastle before racing started and the lass was telling me her runner from the day before had broken down badly. The fetlock was dropping and was going to be put down at home the following day. He was one of the yard favourites so needless to say no one was happy about it. So I showed her pictures of my grey lad who completely ruptured his tendon who is living the life of riley as a show horse. This then lead to her ringing her boss who came into the canteen and I showed them the pictures and said what I did with GreyMo and their face lit up. They really didn't see another outcome for such a bad injury but Gray changed all that. And I am sure he has changed the fate of others from that yard too. That horse is now, 3 years down the line, doing bits and pieces of dressage, showing and happy hacking not far from where he was trained.

Sometimes people need to see for their own eyes before they will believe that anything is possible.

 

[ycbm]

Fantastic EKW. I know racing is really trying to do right by their failed horses, and I really respect the progress that has been made. You're a shining example.

 

[ycbm]

Fatality rate is one in 289 starters in FEI 4* competition its all available to research if you know where to look.Think about it as on average one in every 3 4* competitions and its not so far fetched.

Please tell me where I look for that statistic PD, because I can't find the name of a single horse that's died on course online.

 

[Lexi_]

Please tell me where I look for that statistic PD, because I can't find the name of a single horse that's died on course online.

I'd be interested to see this too because that stat seems awfully high to me unless they're all occurring at Kentucky/Pau/Adelaide. I can't think of one at Badminton or Burghley for many years - there was that awful accident where a French horse at Badminton spiked itself on a broken flag at the Vicarage Vee and it hit an artery but that was years ago so presumably wouldn't count in those stats. The only one that I can remember is poor Wild Lone at WEG in 2014 but that was a heart attack afterwards, not a death on course.

I can think of a couple of others that happened at BE advanced level but there must be many more starters there, so the rate is presumably much lower.

 

[Wimbles]

Another here that was extremely saddened to hear what happened to Many Clouds, a horse that as a massive National Hunt fan, I loved to watch.

I was out coaching all afternoon on Saturday and saw someone's post on Facebook about him dying after winning the race.

On Saturday night when I got home I didn't watch the recorded racing as I do every Saturday night without fail. I felt like I didn't want to know.

Sunday morning came and I decided that I needed to see for myself what exactly happened. I've never been so nervous watching a race that I already knew the result of. I watched the big dark horse jump from fence to fence without missing a beat and I watched a great horse out battle a young upstart up the Cheltenham hill. He wanted it more. Then I was shocked. I didn't see the horse drop like a stone few yards after the line, like has happened before. What I saw was the horse pull up to a walk whilst his elated jockey, Leighton Aspell, threw his arms round the great horse's neck in an embrace that spoke volumes about his love for the animal that had tried so hard for him, answering his every urging. The horse's ears were pricked as he walked round and for a minute I wondered if the person on Facebook had got it wrong. Then the commentators said that he had gone down.

After watching the footage it looked very different to what happened in the National but I'm not an expert. The horse had seemed so much better after his races following his breathing op and I guess it's like all of us who have had a horse with an injury, we take the time to try and repair that problem so we can use the horse for what we want and so that they can go on to try and excel in something that we feel they have a talent in.

On a personal note I found that the footage of what happened to Many Clouds helped me with something. My Father died suddenly from a heart attack. My Mum found him dead in bed when one of the other Doctors reported that he had not turned up for work. It's always bothered me that he would have been alone and terrified when it happened but, maybe naively, seeing Many Clouds with his ears pricked just seconds before he went down , made me feel so much better.

The connections of this lovely horse have my sincere sympathy as they clearly loved him and I know some people don't feel the same as I do about racing, but for this National Hunt fan, I am thankful that they allowed me to enjoy the Many Clouds experience.

 

[asterope]

Just a note on heart attacks in horses - they don't tend to have heart attacks like humans do, from blockages or what we know as heart disease (although they can have heart defects that can lead to death). What usually happens is that the aorta ruptures, causing the horse's blood pressure to drop dramatically. Death is very quick, ranging from literally seconds to a few minutes. It's not known what the cause is, although there are several theories, including that it may be more likely to occur in older horses who have weaker blood vessels, a lack of copper in the diet, or parasite migration.

It doesn't appear to be related to excessive exertion, although horses have been known to die in this way during breeding (see the harness stallion Pacific Fella) (and, of course, after exercise).

 

[Orangehorse]

Very sad for everyone, but horses die like this. Running around the field, out on a Pleasure Ride, hunting, etc. It just isn't public usually.

 

[Zoejl]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/horse-death-could-not-be-prevented-jbgbpcnwx

 

[popsdosh]

Just for those who say its just about the money please try and find some time to read this !

Many Clouds - Oliver Sherwood Stable Visit
Many Clouds - Oliver Sherwood Stable Visit


PICTURE: Getty Images


'He gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure'

BY JAMES BURN 12:50PM 30 JAN 2017

GROOM Chris 'CJ' Jerdin, who looked after Many Clouds since his arrival in Oliver Sherwood's yard, reflects on the loss of the popular chaser

Clouds was a tall, gangly horse and I never thought he'd turn out like he did – you never think they'll win a Grand National.

At the beginning he was a nervous horse and if you said boo he'd jump six foot in the air, but once he got to know you he was pretty good and easy to look after – he wouldn't hurt a fly. He loved the attention and cameras and people visiting him; a little girl was due to come to see him next week, but she won't be able to now.

He was always going to be a chaser and loved his jumping, which stood him in good stead in the National.

I remember I was ill on the day with food poisoning and once he was bedded down for the day I told our travelling head girl Lisa Kozak to call me at 1pm to get him ready.

I wasn't nervous because I didn't expect him to win, but he did. And then he had that wobble and knocked me down, but Alice Plunkett was very good and looked after me.

I've watched the National all my life and it's great when the winner comes in with the police horses. I didn't get the chance because of that wobble, but I thought I'd get another this season.

When he came back in he looked fitter than the previous year. He'd had his wind op and his demeanour was completely different, so I was expecting big things of him –– I think the guv'nor was as well –and I like to think he's proved us right because he's beaten one of the best horses people are saying they've seen.

'He's certainly the best I've done'

Clouds is certainly the best I've done. I can’t speak for the guv'nor, but I'd think he's the best horse he's trained and Saturday was his best performance.

It took us five minutes to get him into Cheltenham because people wanted pictures as he came off the box. I've never had a horse with so much public affection like he had.

After the race, Leighton [Aspell] said he'd gone and I regret not patting him – I just went away too upset and I wish I'd said goodbye.

I didn't go into the yard this morning and it hit me last night when we got back and saw his box and knew it was never going to be used by him again. That was really upsetting for me and Lisa.

I lost a horse four years ago and someone said you should be used to it now at your age. I'm 62 and have been in the sport since I was 15, but you never get to used to it and if you do you shouldn't be working with animals.

Ninety-nine point nine per cent of racehorses are the best-kept animals in the world and the vets at Cheltenham, and at Aintree after the National, were second to none – they looked after him fantastically.

He wanted for nothing and meant everything to me. He was the reason I enjoyed going to work, now it's going to be very difficult, but he won't be forgotten.

I wasn't looking forward to retirement because I love racing so much and Clouds made it easier for me. I won't get another like him and I'm due to retire in two years, when he would’ve been 12, so I was hoping we could go out together. It broke my heart. I’m old-school, but you never get over it.

My favourite memory of him was that he gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure. People came to see him every week and I'm very proud and humbled to be associated with him.

Someone said on TV Thistlecrack's vulnerable now and people will take him on, but I hope Mr Tizzard wins the Gold Cup because that'd prove what we thought of Clouds. He wasn't a good horse, he was a great horse.

 

[Dobiegirl]

The BHA can confirm that Many Clouds was found to have suffered from a cardiac failure, this was the cause of his death following the race.
No underlying health issues were discovered in the autopsy.
Many Clouds had worn a heart rate monitor, provided by "EquinITy Intelligent Training" in training on November 17th 2016. EquinITy has confirmed that the data showed that the horse had no abnormalities with his heart function prior to the race.
While Many Clouds had shown symptoms of post race ataxia in the past, a syndrome characterised by loss of balance in walking following exercise, the horse had never collapsed before, the horse had shown no signs of post race ataxia or similar symptoms following the conclusion of the race on Saturday.
Tony Welsh acting chief veterinary officer for the BHA added:
"Post race ataxia and similar symptoms are linked to an increase in body temperature after exercise and can be treated by providing the horse with water.
It is not uncommon in racehorses or other sport horses. Despite some reports following the incident, there is no existing veterinary evidence which links these symptoms with racehorse fatalities, and the post mortem results have categorically proved that the symptoms exhibited by Many Clouds in the past were in no way present or associated with his sad death at Cheltenham.
The fatality rate within jump racing for horses suffering from cardiac failure is just 0.048% of runners.
The overall fatality rate within British Racing has decreased by 1/3 in the last 20 years owing to the sports significant ongoing investment in equine health and welfare.
"Sudden equine heart attacks such as these are rare. It has been known to happen to horses at rest as well as after exercise and can occur in horses which have no underlying health issues and amongst all disciplines of sport horses".

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

The sad thing is is that they shouldn't have had to do a press release or give out the results of the post mortem. But the public will never be satisfied until every bit of blood is drawn from a stone.

 

[popsdosh]

The sad thing is is that they shouldn't have had to do a press release or give out the results of the post mortem. But the public will never be satisfied until every bit of blood is drawn from a stone.

Exactly but I guess those that know better will soon tell us they are wrong! I backed him on Saturday as I knew what a fighter he was ,my winnings today have gone to Brooke to help those less fortunate than he.