Mare doing meerkat impressions...not sure where to turn now

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Liesel

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I have posted on another forum members post but thought I would put it on here. Its rearing issues and the gist of it is this.....

I have just been trolling through HHO to find a solution to a similar problem.

We have a 6 next month 16.1hh warmblood mare who my 14 year old daughter rides. She is 5ft 10 so not much choice in getting a horse. When we got her she was fab. Came from a great home where she was bred. Hacked out perfectly, hunted and jumped small courses and generally a lot of fun. Won trophies for local jumping and dressage comps.

About a year ago she started napping. Nothing too serious just refusing to go forward if out alone on hack so I started to walk on foot with her and she was fine.

She then got wise and started to bounce on the spot. Not to get you off but definitely chucking her dummy. Three weeks ago she started to go up vertically. Needless to say not a great experience for a 14 year old. She is a very competent rider but not having had to deal with a horse who prefers to do meerkat impressions needless to say her confidence has taken a beating.

Everything culminated today with Pony Club teaming training with William Blane who was fantastic. Showjumping went great, we were waiting for her to misbehave but she didnt put a hoof wrong so we felt positive for the cross country bit. She started to nap as soon as she was asked to leave the others and went vertical. She got a lead around with a friends pony and again all went well. They were stood for a few minutes and daughter asked her to leave the others and up she went ! Vertical up and down about 5 times until daughter managed to jump off. I really did think she was going to go over.

I am at my wits end. We live on an Island where there is very limited help. Lots of instructors but no one willing to get on and sought it out other than one 22 yr old with experience of her own rearing horses in the past. She offered to help Ruby and our first lesson was last week and she got the better of the mare and things went well but she wasnt going vertical then. I know its early days with her and we are seeing her again next week and will do so as often as she can fit us in BUT I just dont know if we will get over this problem.

The mare is stunning with good breeding and a lovely horse on the ground and when hacking out with others but daughter has aspirations of heading to England to start intro eventing which the mare is more than capable of doing. Its just her attitude at the moment stinks!

I dont know whether to turn her away for a couple of months and she if she is more positive on her return to work and, if so, great but if not take it from there and make some tough decisions.

Sorry for rambling but it has been an emotional day and the wine it out !
 
Is she consistently nappy or worst at certain times? I would start logging all behavior to see there is a pattern i.e. worst when due or in season... My mare can be quirky at this time of year, but I have found sticking her on No More Moods in Feb (prior to her 1st season of the year), makes life easier for both of us!;)
 
id definitely say this needs nipping in the bud.
if you have limited help where you are, can you fetch her over on the ferry and leave her on livery for a month or so at a professional breakers yard or the like? it is imperative this is dealt with, and would do her and your daughter the world of good, but ensure you send her somewhere you can trust that will work thro your problems, ie gong out alone, leaving groups etc.
sorry and id hate to be in your predicament, but it needs sorting and the sooner the better.
16.1 is a lot of horse for a 14 yo to deal with, tho i can appreciate why you have her.
a push in the right direction now will pay dividends. good luck and i hope you sort her, it sounds like you have potentially a very fun horse that you should be enjoying!
 
Thank you for your replies.

piebaldsparkle...she isnt consistent can be great one day and the next work ok for a time and then strop. Its hard to tell when she is season. She isnt a moody mare on the ground just when asked to do more than she thinks she (in her own mind) should be doing.

almorton.. I have been thinking about this route. Neil Fox is a friend of someone we know so was thinking about sending her to him to sort out. Can just about afford it if we dont put a much needed new roof on the house ! But it could work in our favour. Will just have to bite the bullet in the expense of getting her to England. At least £450 each way ! + livery etc would be costly but if it worked I would gladly pay it.


She is an incredibly lovely mare in all other ways and to be honest cant afford to change her unless of course daughter's well being is being jeopardised and then its a no brainer.

We did have her on Oestress to no effect but will try No More Moods. I am up for anything at the minute.
 
My friend's horse started displaying this sort of behaviour after being a good horse in every way. Turned out he had a problem with his suspensory ligaments, they had thickened and were causing him pain. The only way he could tell anyone was to rear and nap and refuse to go forwards. It was her Instructor that spotted him having a problem during a lesson. She had him checked out at the vets (Horsepital) and he had an operation to his ligaments, after the rehab hes now back in full work and the behaviour has totally gone. Back to his old self. May be worth you ruling out anything untoward like this too.

Incidentally, may be worth having a chat with your vet and if any problems are ruled out maybe Regumate could be appropriate for your mare.
 
We live on the IOM and only one local ferry company sails to England. Its a captive market with no competition and so prices are high. I dont have a box only a trailer and so will have to rely on a horse transporter or share the expenses with anyone local heading over who is willing to drop her off on their way.

Mare's annual jab is due this week so I will have a chat to the vet about her behaviour.

Im definitely going to call said friend about Neil and fingers crossed he is willing to help.
 
So sorry to hear you are having trouble! Sounds like it's potentially a very scary and dangerous experience for your daughter!

To be honest the first thing that comes to mind is that a rising 6 year old is not a suitable first horse for a 14 year old child. I appreciate your daughter is tall but I would seriously consider selling this mare and getting something around 10 years old that has been there and done that and is not likely to use its size against your daughter.

For now I would get the mare checked over by a specialist vet, there is a good chance the problem is caused by pain. Would be worth re-checking back and saddle as they are the 'usual suspects' for causing new bad behaviour.

If all is well it does sound like a behavioural issue and it's not uncommon for a young horse to test the boundaries. I appreciate the cost issue involved in taking her to a professional in the mainland, but the alternative could be allowing the mare to get away with it, possibly hurting your daughter in the process and ending up with a horse that habitually rears and is very difficult to sell.

Sorry to sound so negative, I really do feel for you, but I think the sooner you act, the better it will be. Good luck!
 
Just to add, I would be a bit weary of allowing a 22 year old to ride a horse which is known to rear. She may say she is competent, and she may indeed be competent, but it could all go wrong if she is injured. At the very least she should have personal accident insurance and you should check your public liability insurance would cover you if she were injured.
 
Have you tried the simple and cheap methods first ie. have an egg in your pocket and when she goes up crack it on her head - apparently it makes them think they've hurt themselves and so wont do it again (not my fav solution I must admit).

the other thing is to ride with a short riding crop and when she goes up just 'donk' her on the head, not whack her hard at all but just enough to let her know its there and give her a damn good growling, deep voiced 'NOOOOOOOOOOO'....

Just a thought really, I really don't have a clue but thought these might be worth a try rather than spending all this money to get her transported to somebody - she might come home and just associate you with the behaviour again.

Horses are so bloody clever, they can read your mind like a book - visualise her moving forward nicely and ask positively to move on, get her to move forward to the left or right so her neck is bent round, making it more difficult for her to go up.

It's all mind games with these little buggers isn't it. Hope you have a good outcome, your daughter is very lucky to have such a nice horse to grow up with and I hope it doesn't turn out to be a vet thing!
 
I had similar issues with my mare. I took her to her first show with my other mare, behaved perfectly, until I tried to take her away from her friend and she went verticle several times. So since they I always take her on her own. I would take her to show away from her horsey palls and avoid them while you are there, so she has got no one to nap towards.

On the hacking front, she would only nap on her own, but would rear, bucks, spin. I just make sure she is facing away from home. If she is being naughty she got a tap with the whip. If she was scared she didn't. Then keep asking her to go forward, the second she took a step forward, take all the pressure off, and once moving rewarded her. She now never naps.

The other thing to remember is a horse can only rear if it is balanced, so where possible, if you know she is going to go up, turn her in small circles, or turn her left, right, left right, so she can't get her weght balance to go up.
 
She wont always go up. She doesnt spin or buck. In fact if she does bounce (I call it bouncing as she doesnt go more than a foot off the ground) she doesnt do more than 4 before she stops and stands there and its when you ask her to go forward she tenses up and will bounce again. It was only yesterday that she started to go vertical and we knew professional help is what we need.

She may just strop by planting and walking backwards when she feels she has done enough. She will also do it when she is on her own but I must emphasise she doesnt do it every day. Yesterday's PC s/j lesson she worked brilliantly for 1 1/2 hours (it was a group session) and we thought we were turning a corner with all the work we had put in to try and solve the problem then the cross country episode brought us back with bump.

No we havent tried an egg, although others have suggested it.

A call is being made to see if Neil Fox has room to take her for 4-6 weeks to sort her out. I know he will be honest and if he feels she is not right for us but no problem for an older more experienced rider then she will have to go. Or if all goes according to plan she will be a reformed character and they can start to have fun together again. She really is a lovely mare other than this recent behaviour and so I hope we can get it sorted.
 
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Your daughter has probably tried this, but what does the mare do it, when she tenses, daughter asks her to turn (tight turns!) or back up?

I ask because Dizz can be a prat and turning her tight is often the way to stop the front end bouncing up.
 
Sorry to hear about your problem. It's a really tough experience for you to deal with. I agree with the others that it is worth discussing this with your vet and worth getting a second opinion on saddle etc. However from your posts it seems to me that the horse only rears when asked to leave the company of others, this suggests it is a behavioural issue. One thing that I can't see mentioned is feed. What are you feeding her? Also you mentioned it started 3 weeks ago, has she gone out on spring grass and had a sudden intake of sugar that has given her more energy to protest?

Rearing is quite a diffiucult problem to solve as it is both difficult and dangerous to stay on. Have you thought of some ground work? Firstly you can teach her to spin round (from the ground 1st usually by asking with one rein). For a horse to rear it must have its 2 back legs planted on the ground, if you can make your horse spin round, its back legs have to cross and then it can't rear. Therefore when you feel she is about to rear you can make her spin round and round and then try again to move forward, if she feels she is going to rear again then spin round ask to go forward again until you win. When you ask her to move forward make sure you ask with the legs on the girth. Some people when making extra effort to kick a horse foward kick with their legs further back but this encourages rearing, as it is the aid for a horse to engage and lower its hindquarters.

My best advice would be to bring her to England and get the problem sorted by a professional, just make sure that they spend an equal amount of time on making sure your daughter can deal with the problem as well. If the horse is really difficult you may get a situation where it behaves for the professional but not for your daughter which is no real use.
 
I have heard of those old fashioed remedies, cracking an egg, smacking over the head etc - not sure if they work but my problems would be......

'horse starts to rear, vertically, hang on a sec, I have an egg here somewgere....its in my pocket, let me just take a hand off the rien to fish it out....etc etc. Can't imagine I'd be capable of such reasoned thought and action myself!!

Sounds like she is simply chucking her toys out of the pram, doing it when she has to leave the others etc. Nipping in th ebud as someone else mentioned is imperative, and I think you're right to send her off to be 'schooled' or whatever.

In the meantime, have to agree about the turning circules thing. She will find it near on impossible to go up.
 
I don't think it's possible to give a full answer without seeing the situation and possibly sitting on the horse, since it could have so many causes and how you deal with one motivation might be completely the opposite of how you would proceed safely in another. Behaviours like rearing, bucking etc. are "expressions" which horses display for a number or reasons, not necessarily in an obvious straight line from the underlying problem. I've had horses that bucked from teeth pain and reared in response to driving aids - you really can't say without seeing.

I have to say, if the mare is a practised rearer, that's a lot for an inexperienced rider, never mind a young one, to sort out. Timing and feel are often so much a part of solving problems like this and staying safe. The particular problem with rearing is if it does wrong, there is such potential for real tragedy. I'm not sure it's any "worse" than any vice - some horses "stand up" just because it's the easiest path and/or they've inadvertently been trained to react that way - but it's certainly a scary and tricky one.

Please don't encourage your daughter to try the old egg trick or smacking the horse over the head. We can argue the effectiveness of these methods until we're blue but the fact is, aside from the logistical problems of getting it done safely, there is a VERY good chance the horse will lose its balance and/or go over backwards. For an inexperienced rider this could literally be life threatening. Sure, experienced people might have success with such practices, but presumably they know when and where and how to follow through safely.

If getting the horse to someone is impossible is there any way of getting someone to you? Do people come to the island to teach? There are travelling "problem solvers" and while it would cost to effectively buy a few days of their time, presumably it would cost less than sending the horse out. Hopefully such a person could also assess the situation and tell you whether or not this is a blip and something your daughter can cope with long term, or something more intrinsic to the horse which will keep causing trouble long term.
 
please don't try whacking her on the head. As i'm sure most people know the poll is a very sensitive area and you could do damage either mentally or physically. I also do not see the egg as a very safe option for anyone on board mid rear. It makes me cringe when i see people putting these comments willy nilly without considering the consequences. It is now 2010 not 1800. There is no such thing as a quick fix for a problem such as this imo. it sounds as if she may be insecure away from other horses. I think sending her away to someone might be a good idea as i think vertical rearing is not a problem a 14 year old should be dealing with. And as you say OP, speaking to your vet to check legs etc might be a good idea.

What's she like going away from others in hand? Would she walk out in hand? Maybe worth trying this for a bit and doing some basic ground work. Then perhaps you and daughter could go out on the lunge with her whilst someone on board and build up from there. May not be useful, but might be worth a try. Sort of like going back a few steps to rebuild her confidence and trust in her rider.
 
As the problem sounds to be getting progressively worse, I'd bet that it is a pain-related issue. I speak from experience. At the end of last August, my vet (who is a back specialist) checked my mare's back on a routine visit and said that all was well. By the end of September it was obvious that there was a problem, so I got the saddler out. One new saddle later, she was still a bit spooky, then she had time off because of bad weather. In the New Year, she dropped me on our first hack out, which I put down to being fresh. Then we had a few more short hacks, then she bucked me off again. I got the vet out again and she was found to have muscular problems in the saddle area and has to have at least 3 months off work, whilst having treatment.
In your position, I would not let your daughter ride again (both for her sake and the horse's) until you have had an up-to-date back exam and the saddle re-checked, if necessary get second opinions.
 
if you want some help or suggestions have been doing equine problems for many years i may be able to help if you want to call me feel free 07773256926 all the best if not
 
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