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Mare hates being tacked up
- Thread starter Cavewoman14
- Start date
GypsGal1718
Well-Known Member
This whole thread makes me uncomfortable, this horse is in pain and she is screaming that at you when you are tacking up but you can’t hear her. You may have had a behaviourist to help you with the effect but the cause is still there and I hope you find it, try everything, different equipment to diagnostic tools. Best of luck
Ceriann
Well-Known Member
My mare isn’t opinionated but did, post a diagnosed injury (tear to the medial branch of her left hind suspensory and mild damage to left front suspensory) and very careful rehab over 6 months plus, object to being tacked. Her reaction was to the saddle, or even a saddle pad plus girthing. She could also react to the brush on one side particularly. She’d had a full body scan and a ton of work up done and diagnosis on back etc was clean. I was always very careful doing the girth up and I spent a lot of time re-training tacking. She was also fine when mounted. I treated for ulcers and hind gut issues - it did improve and stopped for prolonged periods but would come back from time to time. I was never comfortable with it and did conclude (despite vet considering behavioural) alongside my continued management of her soundness (which I think is always the case when they’ve been injured) she was guarding against discomfort. I retired her. She’s paddock sound, on a good joint supplement and devils claw and she’s happy. Not a single grump since. It was very polite but she was telling me she wasn’t comfortable.
IrishMilo
Well-Known Member
She's showing you loud and clear - what other signs would it take for you to think there is ulcers? Just to give you an example, a friend of mine went through something similar at the start of the year, I suggested ulcers but she didn't think it was as he was showing no other signs. Scoped after a series of him dumping people and he had grade 4 plus bot infestation. Aside from this he was the most gentle, calm horse. I'm always annoyed when vets say 'I don't think it's that'. Ok, how do you know that without scoping or doing an X ray? What the horse looks like on the outside has absolutely zero bearing on what's going on on the inside. I think it's great that you've asked for advice but the only person you really need to take head from is your mare! I would really recommend Ron Fields Ulcer power - I know so many people who have used it with amazing results (the friend above gave the Ron Fields as opposed to going down the Opeprazole route and after a month he scoped from Grade 4 to Grade 1 just from the power alone). Vets also recommend it and are trying to get insurers to accept it as claimable.
This is my boy. I think he looks pretty good here for an ex racer in winter. To look at you'd think he was fine but he has neck arthritis, hock arthritis, mild navicular, an old knee break and lord knows what else.
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I'm another that is not convinced this is a behavioral issue.
Horses only have certain ways of letting us know they are not comfortable, and it's mainly showing reluctance towards the things we do with them.
Horses only have certain ways of letting us know they are not comfortable, and it's mainly showing reluctance towards the things we do with them.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
It's a difficult thing to advise on unless you are there IRL to see the behaviours with your own eyes, but for this reason I will always tack up loose. If the horse walks away or shows any sign of irritation/dislike, I'll walk away and try another day. Sometimes horses just don't want to be ridden, although most don't usually have a say in the matter. If this were to become a repeat issue then yes, I would be looking for the underlying cause and the bigger picture reason.
If it is purely 'behavioural', I would imagine that comes from a bad association with either the tack or being ridden. E.g. saddle pinching, painful bit, bad bridle fit, bad tempered rider punishing the horse etc. Remembered pain = I don't want to be tacked up.
Ongoing and chronic pain could be a myriad of things from ulcers to arthritis, which could only be determined by a vet.
I hope that the OP gets to the bottom of it, and I sympathise because it isn't always easy to work out.
If it is purely 'behavioural', I would imagine that comes from a bad association with either the tack or being ridden. E.g. saddle pinching, painful bit, bad bridle fit, bad tempered rider punishing the horse etc. Remembered pain = I don't want to be tacked up.
Ongoing and chronic pain could be a myriad of things from ulcers to arthritis, which could only be determined by a vet.
I hope that the OP gets to the bottom of it, and I sympathise because it isn't always easy to work out.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
As a saddle fitter I'd be very wary of "solving" the issue with a behaviourist and agree there is still probably a physical issue.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
In response to if it's a repeat issue, OP said it's been going on for 4 years.
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
It seems to me that if a behaviourist can solve the problem the owner must tack up very roughly. I bought a mare who strongly disliked being tacked up and said so. The answer was to ensure that her tack fitted and then gradually get her used to each item being put on carefully.
Cavewoman14
Active Member
I’m sorry that this makes you uncomfortable, but I really am doing everything I can to get to the bottom of her behaviour. I have had everything checked out medically that I can have checked out. My vet knows about her behaviour and has worked with me too, to make sure that she isn’t hurting or in pain. She has had ulcers in the past, but is now ulcer free, and she has had badly fitting tack in the past, before I bought her, so I think the memory of pain from that has stayed with her. She has regular physio checks, her teeth are checked, her saddle is checked, and I’ve even had sessions with a nutritionist to make sure she has the feed that she needs. She is very intelligent and does like her own way a lot! I’m as sure as I can be that if she were in pain we would have found the cause by now.
Cavewoman14
Active Member
I actually find your comment quite insulting and very hurtful. You do not know me, yet you judge. I have never tacked up a horse roughly in my life. And as I said in my original post, her saddle is checked regularly. My girl is the most important thing in my life and I have done all I can to ensure that she is healthy, comfortable and happy. The reason I called the behaviourist was because, after exhausting all the medical reasons, I wanted professional help to give me new techniques to help my horse and ensure she is comfortable. The behaviourist has done this, and now my horse is much happier.
Cavewoman14
Active Member
She has been scoped and treated for ulcers in the past, and has been rescoped and is clear for ulcers. Hind gut ulcers are not scope-able, that’s why I asked my vet whether they were likely. My vet thinks it’s extremely unlikely she has them, and I trust my vet enough to act on their advice.She's showing you loud and clear - what other signs would it take for you to think there is ulcers? Just to give you an example, a friend of mine went through something similar at the start of the year, I suggested ulcers but she didn't think it was as he was showing no other signs. Scoped after a series of him dumping people and he had grade 4 plus bot infestation. Aside from this he was the most gentle, calm horse. I'm always annoyed when vets say 'I don't think it's that'. Ok, how do you know that without scoping or doing an X ray? What the horse looks like on the outside has absolutely zero bearing on what's going on on the inside. I think it's great that you've asked for advice but the only person you really need to take head from is your mare! I would really recommend Ron Fields Ulcer power - I know so many people who have used it with amazing results (the friend above gave the Ron Fields as opposed to going down the Opeprazole route and after a month he scoped from Grade 4 to Grade 1 just from the power alone). Vets also recommend it and are trying to get insurers to accept it as claimable.
This is my boy. I think he looks pretty good here for an ex racer in winter. To look at you'd think he was fine but he has neck arthritis, hock arthritis, mild navicular, an old knee break and lord knows what else.
Cavewoman14
Active Member
I have worked with my vets who are of the opinion that there is not a physical issue.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
What have you had x-rayed?
Cavewoman14
Active Member
Thank you. I have started to tack her up not tied up, which has made a huge difference. She was passed around a ot before I had her, and has definitely had ill fitting tack in the past, she has the white scar hairs to prove it. I have worked with my vet to try and get to the root of the problem and ensure it isn’t medical, and will continue to do so. You are right, it’s not easy to figure out why she was doing this, but the behaviourist has definitely helped
Cavewoman14
Active Member
Her back and her hocks, on my vet’s advice. If my vet had advised to have her whole body scanned, I would have done it.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
If you send her for a poor performance workup, they'll find the problem for you. This horse is in pain.
I think the start of this thread is very similar (opinionated horse etc) to another running at the moment, where the owner has found out her horse has psd, the difference is one owner has worked to find the problem.
Cavewoman14
Active Member
Wel thanks so much for your lack of support and insinuation that I don’t care for my horse. I have worked with my vet, who just might be a bit more qualified than you when it comes to diagnosing and treating my horse. If my vet had advised this, don’t you think I would have done it?! I have worked with my vet, dentist, physio and saddle fitter to fine the problem, so I think you will find that two owners have worked to find the problem. Stop being a judgmental keyboard warrior and try offering support instead. Everyone needs a little supportive advice once in a while, even you
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
So why have you come on here to ask for advice, if you don't need it?Wel thanks so much for your lack of support and insinuation that I don’t care for my horse. I have worked with my vet, who just might be a bit more qualified than you when it comes to diagnosing and treating my horse. If my vet had advised this, don’t you think I would have done it?! I have worked with my vet, dentist, physio and saddle fitter to fine the problem, so I think you will find that two owners have worked to find the problem. Stop being a judgmental keyboard warrior and try offering support instead. Everyone needs a little supportive advice once in a while, even you
I just feel sorry for the poor horse. 5 years of saying ouch please don't put that on me
and here we are.
Hormonal Filly
Well-Known Member
You might be referring to post about my mare, she can be grumpy towards the girth and 'opinionated' I suppose, in other ways. My usual vet said (after several lameness work ups) it was just her. I ended up getting a second opinion out which was a lameness specialist, even he agreed she wasn't lame but after long investigations now diagnosed with PSD in 3 limbs and navicular in her front feet.
Not a go at your OP but please listen. Something would of caused those ulcers and the pain is properly still lingering. Sometimes you need a entirely new vet for a second opinion.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
I don't actually think it was your thread I was thinking of, it was @SavvyTaylorMinogue but I'm sure there's been lots.
Sorry to hear about your mare though and well done for getting to the bottom of it x
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I do think very bad saddle fit and wrong tack can cause the horse to be very vocal about being tacked up and even when everything is comfortable and right the horse has memory of pain so the objection and negative behaviour continues.
But as this has been going on for so many years I would suspect something else is going on, not all vets are good at understanding why horses do things which is why I think I would be getting everything checked out before continuing with riding.
But as this has been going on for so many years I would suspect something else is going on, not all vets are good at understanding why horses do things which is why I think I would be getting everything checked out before continuing with riding.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
You don't want to know how many horses are seen over and over by vets who can find nothing then people like me - some bodyworkers, saddle fitters etc, though far from all, depends on training, experience and "lens" - can spot issues just from photos!
Spirit7
Well-Known Member
A course of equisure might be worth a discussion as a final rule out….
SavvyTaylorMinogue
Member
Yes this is me!
So yes this was the case with my gelding.
He did have ulcers when scoped (not sure of grade) my vet said hing gut is always possible so we treated for both with injections. It could be worth discussing this with your vet again about the risks vs benefits of treating hindgut ulcers without evidence. If it's low risk then It could be worth trying, even if it's a kind of gut protective/repair supplement.
Rufus was not obviously lame, even my trainer did not pick up on it, it's subtle my vet wasnt sure so asked another vet at the practice, a lameness expert who picked it up straight away and we went from there to do nerve blocks and ultrasound etc.
His symptoms were all behavioural grumpy, firthy, nippy at the girth, refusal to work (although my trainer could push him through his refusal where I could not)
I will say my horse had a history of PSD injury BUT I loved that my vet wanted to check other things first and not just jump on that since he had an injury before and not in a silly he's running up a bill way but he was clever in how he did his nerve blocks/scans in certain orders so we were checking off other things.
I hope you find a solution, it couldn't hurt to seek a 2nd vets opinion. I'm grateful my vet said she would like another set of eyes.
SavvyTaylorMinogue
Member
Also maybe consider seeking another behavioural expert who you can send videos or get a consult from?
Is there a way to do a full body scan affordable- surely they do not go in the same sentence. Our local uni has a lameness locater to help point out areas of concern (not just lameness) it typically provides a place to start
Apologies I don't have any other help to offer but wish you the best x
Welly Boot
Well-Known Member
Ulcers can come back though.. and if you haven't pin pointed the root cause of the stress, you're on a losing battle. I hope you get some answers. It's so costly and emotionally draining when they go wrong,
PinkvSantaboots
Well-Known Member
I did think of hind gut issues one of my horses can get hind gut discomfort his much better since being on oily herbs though, I find he can get worse once the grass stops growing so I have put him on sulcrafate in winter now which really helps him.
GypsGal1718
Well-Known Member
Maybe try some different vets? Some people just recognise different things.
GrassChop
Well-Known Member
When was she rescoped? Sorry if you've already answered this. What were her back xrays like? How does she react to exercise without tack/being ridden?