Mare hates leg aids

[Hormonal Filly]

Evening all. Backed my 4yo myself Spring this year. She is lovely. She’s like a old head on young shoulders and enjoy riding her.

Her only issue is she hates any leg or the use of the whip, even if it’s a tickle - when ridden.

Going ‘up’ gaits is fine as she responds to my voice, but if she gets a bit slow in the trot say and I ask for a bit more forwardness because she hasn’t responded to my voice (with my leg, or a tap with the crop) her head goes vertical, ears go flat back and tail swish.

Instant behaviour change from ears pricked forward and happy, keep my legs still because she’s going forward, ears are forward and happy again. She’s had physio recently and all good.

A shoulder and bum tap, both have the same reaction. Just like she’s extremely defensive. When lunging or long lining I use the movement of the lunging whip to encourage - rather than come into contact with her.

She’s been working lovely long and low, to be honest we only school once a week for 15 minutes if that and she seems more reactive when in there I’m assuming it’s because it’s more difficult.

Not really sure how to overcome it. It feels like ‘don’t tell me what to do’ but I’m not sure if it is that. Had geldings for the majority of my horse life.. we mainly just hack, but a short session I feel like she should go forward when asked.

Any advice appreciated!

 

[Equi]

Go back to the ground. Work on getting her used to pressure where the leg would be and moving on to tickling with the crop. Basically in hand leg yields.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I would maybe up the schooling till she gets used to it and once she has the hang of it, slow it down. She may not understand or be getting confused. I must admit, I dont need leg, never use or take a whip! Use my voice.

 

[LEC]

She is 4 and probably weak and telling you it’s really hard. But yes she should go forwards when asked with the leg. If you avoid it you will create long term issues. Voice is fine and I still use a lot but ultimately they need to understand and comply with leg especially if you want to compete.

Been through this with one of mine. Kept schooling to 10 mins and added things that she was more enthusiastic about such as poles and jumps. I was also strict about not backing off but did it doing things she found physically fine like walk.

I was then super consistent out hacking with getting forwards (which she did lots of to think forwards). I don’t think I really got a contact until 6 as just not forwards enough so my rule is no contact until they are forwards and going to take one.
Everytime she went bum high I just stopped work. I also barely lunged as too hard on them. At 5 she was still backwards and piggy but better. At 6 better again and 7 very capable winning out eventing and BD. It’s been a long patient road with this one who is a homebred so we know life’s story. She now is very strong physically and a much more forwards, happy horse. Mares are just strong communicators. So you need to listen.

 

[JackFrost]

I had a mare that was so sensitive I never used my leg, or anything else. 4 is still very young and she is learning to carry you.
If I was happy there wasn't a physical issue (not necessarily physio, mares have ovaries), I would be asking her how she wanted to be ridden. Does she understand the idea of moving faster, not just changing gait? Is she saying 'I AM trotting - what is your problem?!'
With my horses I have a voice command for 'more speed please', for any gait, introduced in hand or on the lunge, not ridden.
More than geldings, a lot of mares like two-way communication, so like LEC says, listen.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thanks all. Really helpful advice.

Does she understand the idea of moving faster, not just changing gait? Is she saying 'I AM trotting - what is your problem?!'
With my horses I have a voice command for 'more speed please', for any gait, introduced in hand or on the lunge, not ridden.
More than geldings, a lot of mares like two-way communication, so like LEC says, listen.

I don’t think she does, that’s exactly what it feels like. You’ve nailed it on the head with ‘I AM trotting, what’s the problem?!’

What do you use for more speed when already in the correct gait?

I rarely lunge/lunged her if I’m honest, and when I do she’s really responsive but I haven’t ever played around with speed in gaits I suppose. I do cluck to ask for more speed, but when on her it doesn’t seem to work.

I did lots of long lining in straight lines, but again, trots trot. She knows stand, walk, trot, canter and back (taught her to go back by voice as well)

Mares are just strong communicators. So you need to listen.

Amazing to hear how much your mare matured over a few years. I know with my last youngster, he changed so much between 3-8.

Definitely agree with the quote, it’s the only time she’s ever shown she’s unhappy with something in the entire groundwork/backing process. I want to sort it/train her so she doesn’t misunderstand/take offence.

 

[LEC]

But just because she is being snarky about it being hard doesn’t mean back off. It just means changing the question or you end up with a horse who gets snarky everytime something is hard and you are trying to teach them something new. Mine still gets snarky now but on whole you can get her through to the other side now and then she goes ok it’s not that bad….

Though I did put her into a drop noseband the other day and you would have thought the world had ended with how cross she was about it…..

 

[JackFrost]

There will be better riders than me here who might be able to explain how to get impulsion, correct movement from behind with some self carriage to move herself forwards in whatever gait she is doing. This needs the horse to have the strength in the right places, including core and tummy muscles. Also she needs to know how to use these muscles, with a rider on board. Correct riding will naturally engage the muscles that create forward movement, and this isn't the same as the horse thinking of the aids as a command.
So a young horse has a lot to learn as well as needing the strength to do it. With mine, I get a *good* rider ? on board to do some schooling to introduce these things, and how quickly it develops depends a lot on the individual horse.

At 4, she is still growing and physically maturing so I wouldn;t be asking for more than the basics of self carriage at this stage.
In hand groundwork can help build her strength in the right places - and help her learn to engage the right muscles.

I introduce my 'please hurry up!' voice command in hand, with a schooling whip for a tickle behind to mean 'you CAN walk faster, so do it'. Even if you do very little lunging, a couple of go's in trot with a swish of a whip so she gets to understand the command means to make a bit more effort. If a cluck doesn't work, try a lot of different noises, see which works.

I would guess you are right that she is more reactive in the school because it;s more difficult and she is probably already trying really hard.
Think outside the box for what will make sense to her - she doesn't know that a kick or flick with the stick means 'more speed' and they don't have to be the aids you use to get it. I think 4 is quite young for her to understand speed within gaits.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Thank you for explaining all of that @JackFrost ?

We’ve just been working on forwardness and long & low, which she’s really getting the hang of. It tends to be more when she takes the contact and (it’s like she can’t think of 2 things at once) slows right down, I ask for more forward/speed within the gait and then she gets stroppy. The more I think of it, I’m guessing she can’t give emulsion from behind while pushing forward into a contact because she isn’t strong enough.

She’s definitely really trying for me and doesn’t understand/finds it difficult. A friend said hit her harder - by no means am I going to do that!

I will do some in hand bits and possibly do a bit in the big open field, see how she goes there. Thanks all.

She’s having a winter break and be good to update this thread next year.. fingers crossed.

 

[maya2008]

What is she like out hacking? I personally would address the acceptance of the leg aid issue at the riding away stage (taking as much time as needed) and then reinforce it out hacking until it’s solid. Only then would I try to do any schooling.

Eta: I have backed lots of mares and only two geldings - the mares were easier! Happier about going forwards on their own, more mature about the whole process and just bolder in general.

 

[Cortez]

Sounds like all you need is a good instructor.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

What is she like out hacking? I personally would address the acceptance of the leg aid issue at the riding away stage (taking as much time as needed) and then reinforce it out hacking until it’s solid. Only then would I try to do any schooling.

Eta: I have backed lots of mares and only two geldings - the mares were easier! Happier about going forwards on their own, more mature about the whole process and just bolder in general.

Laid back, but usually a lot more responsive to my leg/acceptive over the crop if needed. Does have tail swishy, grumpy moments. I don’t think she likes being told what to do, it has to be her idea.

Sounds like all you need is a good instructor.

We’ve had a few lessons but 2 instructors just said don’t worry shes laid back - she’s young. I know she’s young but she should go when I ask. One got me to make her react to my leg (which I have been) but we have a 1-2 lesson with a dressage instructor next month and she’s more classical so looking forward to it.

 

[maya2008]

BHS instructors are not initially taught how to train young horses at the lower levels (just how to maintain an established horse's training), so you'd need someone who is more than an AI or someone who has their own personal experience of training youngsters. I would ask around locally. It's crucial at this point that you can tell if it's training or whether she has, for example, got ulcers.

We had an issue with one of our young ones a few years ago - arrived scared of people and touchy around the ears. Thought nothing of the ear issue at first, as it matched the rest of the pony (jumpy and nervous). The ear issue persisted though, beyond the point at which the pony was relaxed and happy around humans. On closer investigation, she had ear mites. Small amount of treatment later, and you could do anything with her ears. If we hadn't been so confident that it wasn't a handling issue, we'd not have checked for anything else, and then she wouldn't have been treated. So for you, I'd find an instructor who has lots of experience backing horses, and see what happens with them.

 

[sbloom]

I would have another bodyworker who really looks at posture/movement look at her, and hopefully this classical trainer can shed some light, but not all of them are brilliant on looking at p/m either. Horses like to move, or should, and if they don't there's so often an underlying issue, it "just" being a compensatory movement pattern (eg crookedness) can be enough to make a horse reluctant to go forwards, and baby horses can have them, 100%. It might just be confusion so a training issue but I think that's less common, the longer I do my job.