Mare just not quite happy?

[charlotte0916]

I think I need a bit of a sounding board if others don’t mind.

You may have seen from previous posts that my mare and I have been through the wars since I’ve had her and she’s finally in ‘proper’ work for the first time.
There’s a few niggles remaining that I can’t work out if I’m being hyper vigilant about after her past problems or should be looking into.

•She’s very sensitive to tack up - goes to bite/waves legs around with saddle/girth. Retrained post ulcers was happy if sensitive and now somewhat regressed. Drops head to the floor when you go to out the bridle on.
•Naps to the arena (in fair ness it is also in the opposite direction to the yard/fields away from her best buddy).
•Will not stand at the mounting block. Will run people over if they try to hold her/bite/throw legs around so you need to be very speedy and preppy to put your foot in as she walks off. Post-ulcers I had retrained her to stand at the block happily but this has regressed.
•Really grumpy to rug - same behaviour as racking up with more leg waving. Retrained post ulcers was happy now regressed.

As soon as you’re on she’s totally fine, forward, happy, doesn’t come back at anything and soaks up being challenged.

She’s been scoped and cleared (grade 4 ulcers, scoped because she was girthy, showed no signs ridden). On a calming powder/oestress combo which makes a noticeable difference. Had extensive physio and had a sore back but resolved apart from slight lumbar area sensitivity, no diff with work. Saddle checked every 3-6 months. Back x-rayed and clean. Currently on a regumate trial.

Would you assume this is just a spicy rising 6 year old who’s precious about their personal space or something to look into?
Polling for opinions please!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would think it is something to look into, tbh Sorry!

 

[charlotte0916]

I would think it is something to look into, tbh Sorry!

This is what I kind of feel in my gut but feel a bit stumped about where to look!
All I can think is to rescope or vet had offered to inject SI, but seems extreme. Friends are of the opinion that as I’m not in danger of ending up on the floor I should crack on.

 

[ycbm]

Feed? I have one who is a joy to ride whatever, but to handle he can become a fire breathing dragon on alfalfa or a little less so on linseed.
.

 

[HobleytheTB]

Ovary scan?

 

[McGrools]

I would be thinking she is an opinionated madam who likes to think she has a bit of control over you. I have one similar, she was overhandled as a foal and now doesnt like being told. She pulls faces and is terrible with personal space. She also likes to go as soon as my foot is in the stirrup. I had a pocket full of treats at the weekend and she stood like a rock as i mounted whilst disracted with the possibility of treats. I cant believe its taken me so long to try that one!
Mine is also great ridden and is really well muscled and looks fantastic. Has been vet checked. All good.
She is getting better and i do think feed can make a difference.
mine is a year older than yours. But i do think some just like to show attitude. She is a black mare after all.
i love hee despite her bolshiness. X

 

[magicmoments]

You've certainly done lots to help her, but I'd suspect there is a problem. Gut health can play a large part as I'm now learning. Can certainly recommend you speaking to Ron fields about his supplements. His product where recommended to me by Tom Beech the oesteopathic vet.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would be thinking she is an opinionated madam who likes to think she has a bit of control over you. I have one similar, she was overhandled as a foal and now doesnt like being told. She pulls faces and is terrible with personal space. She also likes to go as soon as my foot is in the stirrup. I had a pocket full of treats at the weekend and she stood like a rock as i mounted whilst disracted with the possibility of treats. I cant believe its taken me so long to try that one!
Mine is also great ridden and is really well muscled and looks fantastic. Has been vet checked. All good.
She is getting better and i do think feed can make a difference.
mine is a year older than yours. But i do think some just like to show attitude. She is a black mare after all.
i love hee despite her bolshiness. X

Horses don't really have opinions like people do and bearing in mind the horse is displaying some strong reactions to certain things and has previously had ulcers, there could still be an underlying issue that has not been found.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I agree with above worth looking into feed, ovaries or even hind gut issues?

The Ron Fields supplements are very good and he is very helpful and knows his stuff it's worth getting in touch to see if they might help her.

 

[Widgeon]

All I can think is to rescope or vet had offered to inject SI, but seems extreme. Friends are of the opinion that as I’m not in danger of ending up on the floor I should crack on.

It's funny but she sounds surprisingly similar in some ways to a young mare on our yard - she has the same reaction to being tacked up (bitey, leg waving) and won't stand to mount. Once on she's good. She also had ulcers that were treated and the bitey-ness went away, but her owner had her rescoped yesterday because the recurrence of the behaviour makes her think they've come back. Is there any chance your mare's ulcers have recurred?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Feed? I have one who is a joy to ride whatever, but to handle he can become a fire breathing dragon on alfalfa or a little less so on linseed.
.

Because it's simplest and cheapest, I would start by stripping back feed to grass/hay. A lot of 'ulcer friendly' feeds/supplements contain alfalfa but many horses react badly to that. If that doesn't help, I would want to investigate hind-gut ulcers, if the vet is certain that the gastric ulcers haven't returned. You do need to bear in mind though, that ulcers can be a response to pain in another part of the body.

 

[laura_nash]

Friends are of the opinion that as I’m not in danger of ending up on the floor I should crack on.

Pretty sure studies have shown mounting is one of the most dangerous parts of riding, so not sure I'd agree with this assessment.

Since she was better and then regressed I would agree sounds like something I'm afraid.

 

[charlotte0916]

Feed? I have one who is a joy to ride whatever, but to handle he can become a fire breathing dragon on alfalfa or a little less so on linseed.
.

I had meant to change her over but forgot about this.
She’s currently on 1/4 scoop HIFI molasses free to carry her calmer, equisure hind gut supplement and oestress. Then also gets 1.5 scoops of the chaff before being ridden. Ad lib hay in the stable and field otherwise.

I think I may switch to the honeychop lite and healthy as she’s a good doer but needs rather a lot of it given feeding before riding.

Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[charlotte0916]

Ovary scan?

I asked my vet about this and he put her straight on regumate as she is currently coming into season and has since mid Jan. I may follow up with this at the end of the trial at the start of March - glad to hear others think it’s worth checking.

 

[charlotte0916]

I would be thinking she is an opinionated madam who likes to think she has a bit of control over you. I have one similar, she was overhandled as a foal and now doesnt like being told. She pulls faces and is terrible with personal space. She also likes to go as soon as my foot is in the stirrup. I had a pocket full of treats at the weekend and she stood like a rock as i mounted whilst disracted with the possibility of treats. I cant believe its taken me so long to try that one!
Mine is also great ridden and is really well muscled and looks fantastic. Has been vet checked. All good.
She is getting better and i do think feed can make a difference.
mine is a year older than yours. But i do think some just like to show attitude. She is a black mare after all.
i love hee despite her bolshiness. X

Funny you should talk about being over handled - she was premature and bottle fed, and was actually allowed to climb up on the breeders shoulders until she was a yearling at least I’ve heard!!

 

[charlotte0916]

I agree with above worth looking into feed, ovaries or even hind gut issues?

The Ron Fields supplements are very good and he is very helpful and knows his stuff it's worth getting in touch to see if they might help her.

She’s on the Ker equisure and is better on that than off so I think hind gut is being addressed. I’ve heard of Ron fields a few times so might be worth a go!

 

[charlotte0916]

It's funny but she sounds surprisingly similar in some ways to a young mare on our yard - she has the same reaction to being tacked up (bitey, leg waving) and won't stand to mount. Once on she's good. She also had ulcers that were treated and the bitey-ness went away, but her owner had her rescoped yesterday because the recurrence of the behaviour makes her think they've come back. Is there any chance your mare's ulcers have recurred?

It is possible - I do have a claim still open until May so am tempted to have her scoped on that just to rule it out.

She did have a sore back following box rest which has taken a few months to resolve with intensive physio and is a generally stressy personality so it’s certainly possible.

Did they find a reoccurrence in the mare at your yard?

 

[McGrools]

Funny you should talk about being over handled - she was premature and bottle fed, and was actually allowed to climb up on the breeders shoulders until she was a yearling at least I’ve heard!!

Yep, that would definately cause attitude. If overhandled they tend to lose a bit of respect for people. They think you are a playmate rather than the boss. My mare gets reminded of her manners everyday but it doesnt seem to make a blind bit of difference. She is just rude on the ground.
i had another that was the same 10 years ago. Would flatten you for food. Also overhandled as a foal.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I had meant to change her over but forgot about this.
She’s currently on 1/4 scoop HIFI molasses free to carry her calmer, equisure hind gut supplement and oestress. Then also gets 1.5 scoops of the chaff before being ridden. Ad lib hay in the stable and field otherwise.

I think I may switch to the honeychop lite and healthy as she’s a good doer but needs rather a lot of it given feeding before riding.

Thanks for the suggestion!

I would drop the hifi it has alfalfa in it just a small amount will make both of my Arab's nuts they literally change overnight, my 2 won't eat straw chaff on its own so I just feed grass chaff and in summer sometimes mix it with the straw chaff.

 

[charlotte0916]

I would drop the hifi it has alfalfa in it just a small amount will make both of my Arab's nuts they literally change overnight, my 2 won't eat straw chaff on its own so I just feed grass chaff and in summer sometimes mix it with the straw chaff.

Thanks for the tip, I’ll look at getting some this weekend and transitioning off the alfalfa to see if that makes a difference!

 

[Elno]

My horse exhibits almost the exact same behaviour, apart from not standing still for mounting and napping. But the tacking up, rugging and biting/legs waving sounds exactly like him.

He's a 21 year old gelding though with arhritis (fetlock) and back pain (probably because of compensatory mechanisms developed due to the lameness and arhritis not to mention being an ex riding school horse with poorly fitted saddles).

When I got him I immediatly though ulcers and had him treated- basically no change in grumpyness.
Then the lameness work up showed the arthritis and also an inflammation in one of the hocks.

He is since steroid injections and physio maybe possibly a tad better, but still bit me when tacking up a couple of days ago and is still lame as ever. Currently waiting for the Athramid vet ordered, but seriously concidering PTS instead because I don't know how much longer I'm willing to continue treating (and riding on vets orders) an old, obviously uncomfortable and clearly in pain horse ?

I would investigate your horse further.

 

[ycbm]

Funny you should talk about being over handled - she was premature and bottle fed, and was actually allowed to climb up on the breeders shoulders until she was a yearling at least I’ve heard!!

This changes everything. Bottle fed foals can be so dangerous that they are PTS when they get big enough to do serious damage. I wouldn't knowingly buy one unless it had manners to burn on the ground.
.

 

[charlotte0916]

This changes everything. Bottle fed foals can be so dangerous that they are PTS when they get big enough to do serious damage. I wouldn't knowingly buy one unless it had manners to burn on the ground.
.

Yes, I found out subsequently to the sale being finalised. She does have a funny set of social skills both with humans and other horses but has improved so far with very consistent handling. I think there may be further to go particularly as she is at a very ‘teenage’ stage currently.
I will be looking into possibilities further when she’s reviewed by the vet in 2 weeks too though, to be sure.
Very helpful, thank you everyone!

 

[SEL]

Yes, I found out subsequently to the sale being finalised. She does have a funny set of social skills both with humans and other horses but has improved so far with very consistent handling. I think there may be further to go particularly as she is at a very ‘teenage’ stage currently.
I will be looking into possibilities further when she’s reviewed by the vet in 2 weeks too though, to be sure.
Very helpful, thank you everyone!

I've got one of them. Orphan foal who can't work out if she's human or horse. 12 now and I still describe her as a stroppy teenager.

I have used clicker training to get polite behaviour but you have to be careful to keep the excitement levels down because like most bottle fed foals she can get quite energised around food. I only treat her for good behaviours not just for "being a horse".

That's assuming it isn't pain. Microcob who is very sweet got nippy with being tacked up. Not gut related - sore leg it turned out so associating riding with pain.