Mare reacting aggressively to saddle!

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Pingu42

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I’ve got a 5 year old mare that I’ve had since she was 2. Backed lightly last year and turned away for Autumn/ Winter. Got back on her in February using a Total Contact Saddle and has been going brilliantly and took her for a lesson at my instructors where she was fab!
Then suddenly started reacting to the saddle coming anywhere near her! Coincided with weather changing and some rain! Called the vet, tested for EMS as she’s a very good doer and seemed footy. Negative for EMS, hoof x rays showed low frogs/ thin soles so put shoes on her.
Now on a track system with my others and soaked hay to drop some weight.
Got back on her for two hacks but then started reacting aggressively to even numnah going on her. Seems a bit stiff on RH so got chiropractor coming out this week. I’m also considering getting her scoped for ulcers this week too!
Aghh! Please has anyone else had experience of horse reacting aggressively to saddle?
Thanks 😊
 
If she's put weight on/been turned away potentially changed shape so it no longer fits.
Basically she's saying for whatever reason, 'ouch, no thank you!' so saddle fitter & vet needed then slow gentle reintroduction to it again so she learns it doesn't hurt anymore
 
What do you mean when you say 'acts aggressively'?

I had a mare some years ago who would always move away and pin her ears back when I came out of the tack room with a particular saddle (this had been fitted to her) but would stand happily when I came out with her other saddle - which in theory did not fit her as well. Never did know why she didn't like the first saddle but she made her feelings very clear.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
If she's put weight on/been turned away potentially changed shape so it no longer fits.
Basically she's saying for whatever reason, 'ouch, no thank you!' so saddle fitter & vet needed then slow gentle reintroduction to it again so she learns it doesn't hurt anymore
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It’s a total contact saddle so basically a bareback pad so fits any horse! I’ve been riding her in it since February and no issues! If it had been a treed saddle then of course, would have got saddle fitter out!
 
maya2008 said:
Something hurts.

How much padding are you using? If you palpate her back are there any sore areas?
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I’m using the TCS pad with the seat too as I have a bony backside! Using stubben string girth too.
Yep, I think something is causing her pain! Obviously not riding her until I know what it is!
 
Ok thank you to the people who have explained and op I'm sorry I commented without sufficient knowledge/incorrectly, but I will leave it up so others corrections still make sense
 
Pingu42 said:
Absolutely fine putting roller on! But then I was wondering if she knows that she won’t be ridden with a roller!
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sounds like she knows whats hurting her. Can you present each part of your saddle set up separately and see how she reacts? That along with the chiro visit might help you pin point what needs changing or looking at.
 
dorsetladette said:
sounds like she knows whats hurting her. Can you present each part of your saddle set up separately and see how she reacts? That along with the chiro visit might help you pin point what needs changing or looking at.
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Well just watched a Steve Young video on working with a horse who was aggressive having saddle put on. I’ve just done a 30 min session which was a success!
Usually she has a haynet whilst tied up! Changed that today! Brought her in to small feed of chaff, did 10 mins ground work with pressure halter on. Then put numnah, TCS and then girth on in stages. Any ears back, she had to reverse! Tacked up perfectly! Stood for 10 mins on yard by herself on long rope while I sat away from her, then took her for walk in hand, then stood her by mounting block and stood perfectly and I got on/ off several times! She never stands still unless with a haynet! Interestingly, I’ve been away for weekend and I usually strip graze them. However while I was away, they just had soaked hay on bare paddock. So I do wonder if the fresh grass especially after rain over last week has been irritating her hind gut. She now also has shoes on (been 10 days now) and she had previously had bruising hence putting shoes on.
I’m going to see what chiropractor says this week and also look at different padding for TCS!
 
I'd not be using negative approaches, she's communicating with you and you're telling her you'll make it hard work when she tries to communicate. The TCS can cause issues despite the publicity, I have at least two customers who've walked away from them because of soreness and even white hairs. And that's with a hands on TCS "fitter" for at least one of them.
 
sbloom said:
I'd not be using negative approaches, she's communicating with you and you're telling her you'll make it hard work when she tries to communicate. The TCS can cause issues despite the publicity, I have at least two customers who've walked away from them because of soreness and even white hairs. And that's with a hands on TCS "fitter" for at least one of them.
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Oh that’s interesting! I did put a post up on the Facebook page but apparently there was no way that it could be causing problems!
I was planning on using it as a temporary measure for the Summer and then hopefully getting an AH saddle in the Autumn. I’ve managed to find a local fitter who fits them. I will get the chiropractor to look at it for me to see whether she thinks it is causing problems.
To be honest, yesterday apart from one little ears back moment, she was fine having it on. I’ve not ridden her for over a week and won’t until I know she is ok!
If the behaviour continues, will definitely look at getting a saddle fitter out and also getting her scoped!
 
Burnttoast said:
You've basically trained her not to communicate with you.
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Now I feel bad! All I did was ask her to reverse a few steps when she put ears back which was literally only a couple of times. She was completely different yesterday and totally chilled. I’m now fairly convinced it might be Hindgut issues as her behaviour has changed now she is on minimal grass and soaked hay. The last time I tried was a week ago and stopped straight away when she got aggressive.
 
Pingu42 said:
Now I feel bad! All I did was ask her to reverse a few steps when she put ears back which was literally only a couple of times. She was completely different yesterday and totally chilled. I’m now fairly convinced it might be Hindgut issues as her behaviour has changed now she is on minimal grass and soaked hay. The last time I tried was a week ago and stopped straight away when she got aggressive.
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Why do you think asking her to reverse a few steps works? Its a punishment.
 
Pingu42 said:
Now I feel bad! All I did was ask her to reverse a few steps when she put ears back which was literally only a couple of times. She was completely different yesterday and totally chilled. I’m now fairly convinced it might be Hindgut issues as her behaviour has changed now she is on minimal grass and soaked hay. The last time I tried was a week ago and stopped straight away when she got aggressive.
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What was your intention when you backed her up? To stop her putting her ears back? To encourage her not to in future?
 
You've done your best OP and unfortunately you have been misguided by the overload of information there is out there, which happens to us all sometimes.

Having asked about the saddle on a TCS page unfortunately means that you will likely only get replies from people who are biased towards TCS saddles and they will tell you that it's magic, but in reality the people who haven't had a good time with those saddles are driven off of those pages by the more devout followers, so I would disregard their responses entirely. TCS saddles in theory fit everything, but they are prone to causing pressure points where the stirrups attach (think, wearing a tight backpack all day) and you can cause pressure points with a bony bum or if you have pressure on the spine. Tree'd saddles whilst more difficult to fit, if fitted properly dissipate some of the way we sit and the pressure through the whole panel, whereas she will be feeling very direct pressure/changes of balance/weight shifts from you on a very concentrated area right into the muscles either side of her back (similar to if you laid on a tennis ball on the floor, it may not be sore at first but it would be if you put it in the same place every day)

Steve Young is a brilliant person to follow and his methods are fab, but you must remember that he assesses the horses he manages with his methods to ensure that the issue is behavioural, which is why negative feedback then becomes necessary. Whereas in this instance, I believe your mare is telling you that something hurts, which is usually the case when there is one trigger, a generalised behavioural issue is likely to be present in general every day life, or at least spill outside of one specific trigger. Unfortunately you absolutely can train a horse to stop communicating with you, which is what you have unintentionally done here.

I would, as you have said, get a body worker or chiropractor out to assess her for any sore points. I have been taught some things by the body worker that sees Dex, but sometimes when he isn't reacting to my palpation he will then very easily react to hers, it's getting the right point/feel for it, so if you can't pinpoint anything it doesn't mean nothing is there. I would also have a good look under her and in her armpits to make sure that there isn't any rubbing or fly bites or similar that may be making her upset at the girth too. Then depending on the findings I would get a good saddle fitter out to see if you could try a tree'd saddle on her and see if she prefers it.

ETA: just seen the comment about RH stiffness, I would circumvent the bodyworker/chiro and get the vet out to do a lameness work up, it's not as expensive as you may think and they would also be able to pick up any back soreness at the same time.

Good luck, and keep listening to her!
 
She is reacting to the saddle because the saddle itself or riding hurts. That’s where you are at.

First you check yourself for soreness on her back. Give it a good poke all over. Does she move away/react? Are any muscles hard where they should be soft? Any white hairs?

Second, check she isn’t lame - can she move easily on hard and soft, straight and circle without a rider?

If both those tests go ok, try riding with a standard bareback pad (no stirrups). Is she happier? Moving freer? Does she look at it happily the next day? If she does, it’s your saddle. If she reacts the same to a basic bareback pad even after time to recover from any soreness, you need the vet.


TCS can be a brilliant tool but it relies a lot on the rider assessing the horse’s conformation, rider’s weight etc and padding to suit. So do I use it as an adult? Yes, especially if we are having treed saddle problems. Have I built muscle under it and had happy ponies? Yes too. Do we pad extensively and carefully? Very very much so. You want a clear spinal channel and to be able to put your hand under the TCS when sitting or standing in the stirrups with it being comfortable to have it there (and no pressure on the spine). Particularly checking the back edge. You also want a slightly looser girth to allow the saddle to flex with your rise and the movement of the horse - allowing blood flow and an even sweat pattern (so done up but not super tight).
 
There are a lot of flexible, and often component, treeless saddles that give her more comfort and you more support and aren't hideously expensive. May be worth trying one, presuming you'd rather stay treeless.
 
Thank you to everyone for your replies😊
Chiropractor came today. I had put the TCS on already (no reaction today) and she was already familiar with them. No reaction/ pressure points under where saddle/ stirrup bars so doesn’t think it’s causing the problems! Will look at getting a AH saddle fitted in next few months as we start doing more.
She found stiffness in RH (stifle) and pelvis was unlevel/ tight over rump/SI. Loosened her off, and then by the end she was moving much more happily.
I’ve discussed everything with my vet who saw her 10 days ago, thinking it might be hind gut issues as she is much happier now that she’s on soaked hay and minimal grazing and that can cause RH stiffness too. She was footsore/ bruised soles so now shoes have been on 10 days, hopefully she’s feeling more comfortable!
Anymore issues with girthiness then will take her for a scope!
 
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