Mare's line - How much does it count?

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pennypots

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I have a TB mare ex racehorse with very good bloodlines. She can jump, but had a kissing spine op and therefore we do not want to push her. So have decided to put her in foal. We have chosen a stallion who is at present on the circuit and is showing a big bold jump. We want to acheive a good jumper from this union and i was wondering how much of the mare will be present in the foal? I realize it is all a bit of a lottery. But we would like to be in with a chance.
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The mares influence is at least 60%, so quiet a big chunk. But if you could not improve on the mare there would be little point in ever breeding. It is important to find a stallion that compliments her weakest areas, but that does not always work.
 
Was talking to an arab breeder today and she was saying that they think along the lines of the mare influences 80% of the foal, and that they spend alot of time researching and choosing broodmares with just as good mother lines(if thats the word?) as sires.
 
to me its the most important thing and when i bought my last broodmare I ignored the fact she was by a sire that isn't one of my favourites but focused on her exceptional motherline. That would always be a priority for me now, motherline first, sireline second in a broodmare. I also want to look at a stallion that has a great motherline.

When you say your TB mare has great bloodlines, is that in sport or in racing?
 
Well i have been given some food for thought here!! I have been researching stallions like there is no tommorrow and it seems i should be checking on all their mothers!
My mare was bred for the flat. She has demonstrated that she has a good jump, but all her blood lines are from flat racers. She is all we have to work with, and we have limited funds, so thought that if we chose a really good stallion we would be in with a chance of getting a jumper out of it????
Does all this sound rubbish?
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To me the mare I am breeding from is very important, and the motherline of that mare is also important. However, I have a fantastic mare that has an unknown motherline. The mare herself was produced as a showjumper by my daughter and has subsequently bred me some fantastic foals, the oldest of which was in the top ten at last years British bred 4 year old championships at Addington. He is simply a jumping machine.
(as pictures below, which was taken at the beginning of this year aged 4 1/2)

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So although the pedigree is very important, I also believe that performance is just as important, especially on the dam side. Also owners have to be willing to be critical of their horses, so that a stallion that compliments their faults is used.
 
Thanks Tempi, we are very proud of him. Oh and the other thing is he looks just like his mother, so he is definately one who has taken a lot more than 60% from his damline, his father is a showjumper but he does not look like him in any way.

I am definitely repeating this breeding, "if it isn't broken don't fix it" is my motto.

Here is a photo taken at the 4 year old champs.

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He is out of a mare by Diamond Rock/King of Diamonds, and as I mentioned the mare has no dam line. His father is Renkum Valentino/Concorde.

All the horses in my avatar are mine.

First is Tartan Special who is by Dutch Falco/Animo out of a mare called Lune D'or by Goldhills/Marius

Second is Macbeth who is by Master 850/Ceylon - don't have his passport with me (at the yard) so can't remember his dam line ops
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Third is Legrande who is by Lefevre/Lombard/Landgraf out of a mare called La Serina by My Boy/Obvod/Nektar

Difficult to keep up to date with all the pedigrees of our stock sometime
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Renkum Valentino/Concorde.


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Guys, this is exactly what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This means that your horse is line bred 2 and 2 to Concorde!
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Which would be about the worst breeding in the world.

Concorde is the father of Valentino and always will be, so please list the dam sire, NOT the sire's sire.
 
Cruiseline

Don't worry about Ken - He gets a bit uptight about how we show the breeding and if you look at a few of his posts you will see how he likes it shown.
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I don't really worry about it as my mare has only one generation known and at that unregistered (so everyone in here as never heard off and there is no point mentioning it).
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In my case, I'd say that my foals have definitely taken about 80% from their mothers sides. Although their heads are like my lovely boy, their temperaments and mannerisms, colourings and body structures are far more like their mothers.

In the case of my palomino mare; her bloodlines are absolutely topnotch all the way through and not just on sires sides. My boy (father of the foals) has beautiful dam lines but his sire lines are more unique/rare.
 
I was thinking the same thing, Axel and Melody are pretty much the same breed, Arab x warmblood but whereas Axels dam is the warmblood and his sire the arab he looks more like his mother, but Melody is the other way round and looks far more araby than Axel, even tho they are both 50% arab!
 
Pitstop, everyone has to start somewhere and much as I place a lot of emphasis on damlines now if I was to purchase another broodmare, one of my best producers is from a TB flat racing dam line, so no sport horse performance in there that I can track down, but she consistently produces superb foals from a variety of stallions.
If your mare is the right make and shape that you feel she will produce you a jumping foal, then go for it. Select the best stallion you can to compliment her strengths and weaknesses and try it. Have you ever jumped her before her injury to know whether she had natural ability. I used to have a NH bred mare that had a superb natural technique over a fence (bloody useless racehorse she was too bless her) and had I had the chance was going to breed her to a jumping stallion.
 
Sorry KenRehill, I will re-list the breeding for you.
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Renkum Valentino/Diamond Rock

Dutch Falco/Goldhills

Lefevre/My Boy

Is that what you are looking for?
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Do you want us to put more in the list of breeding, if so how should it look, as the above is just father and dam's father.
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generally sire x dams sire x grand dams sire

that way the information about the sires of the mareline are shown, that is of course all fine and dandy IF we know the names of all the stallions out there which no one does........ so I tend to put younger less known perhaps younger stallions' sire in brackets..... sire (sires sire) etc

frequently on the continent when horses are being advertised for sale they list the sires breeding first and below that more information about the dam, her status within the studbook, and the rest as above, the kwpn keurings are catalogued in this manner.

When last in Germany a friend and I had an interesting conversation with a breeding consultant in the Hannover region, he encouraged us to study the damline from the fourth and fifth generations onwards, then the sires damline again from fourth and fifth generations onwards, with the sire himself last in the equation.
 
Cruise line....... I was going to look at Master 850 for my mare he's standing at stud not far from me. Your boy looks gorgeous in pic, although discussing dams line how have you found his influence over your horse?
 
I love Macbeth, he has taught me so much. He has three really good paces which are very elegant, fantastic lateral work and easy through changes, but you have to ride him. He will only do what you ask of him, no more, no less, which I believe is very much Master and that came from his breeder who was over in Dubai for a training clinic!! If I ask wrong, he performs wrong. There are times when I feel he wont give me an inch. He is very easy to teach, but you have to get it right, which is so unlike my stallion. He says OK mum know what you want, here goes. He can also very easily get behind my leg, I call him the deisel engine, takes time to warm up, but once you are going, your on your way. I was told that Master offspring are usually aimed more at the professional riders market, than the amateurs. Not because they have a bad temperament, just because they take all your riding and more. But when it is right it is really right.
 
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