Market for spicy horses?

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pinkypug1

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Is there no market anymore for ‘spicy horses’?? and I don’t mean rearers, bolters or buckers I mean horses with blood, a zest for life and work who aren’t plods! When I was looking for horses i looked for lighter framed ISH horses with a lot of get up & go. But now finding buyers want sedate, thicker set, quieter types. What should breeders be breeding for the general amateur market? cold blooded native X for the new market of riders? I see all these lower level blood type ISH/Warmbloods who don’t seem to sell yet ID X and native X sell quickly? Is there no market for amateur sports horses? Is it now either black type blood sports type for the professional market and quiet, native type for leisure, riding club rider?
 
The issue is when these hot horses dont have the talent to attract the rider they need. Most people want and need an easy going, nice natured horse. The ones that dont generally want a performance horse, and lots of these horses dont have the temperament and/or skill to be competition animals.
 
a lot of them also need constant work to keep them sane and productive partners, which doesn't often suit amateur riders who are juggling jobs and kids. also a lot of amateur riders don't really need a lot off blood, a cob cross can easily motor around a metre event or sj course. that also tend to be hardier and less money intensive regards feeding and vets bills. there seems to a sway towards dressage and away from xc for a lot of riding club riders in my area, mainly due to weather and also a scarcity of events and hunter trials. those cob x's tend to do much more rhythmic and calm tests, rather than the tenser stresses tests you see the hotter types doing at lower levels. most amateur riders also want to be able to do a fun ride and not get the arms pulled off themselves or spend the time trying to settle a fiery horse.

I absolutely love the kind of horses you talk about, and they are the ones I get myself, but I can totally understand the swing to saner types for the amateur market.

Maybe the amateur market is really two markets as well, you have the competition rider market and then the riding club type market? from what I can see the competitive amateur market is perfect for the horses you mention, but you would wonder is money reducing the size of this market? the sheer cost now to keep a horse, and pay for events is just astronomical and getting beyond a lot of peoples reach.
 
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I chose native x tb for most recent purchase after having Warmbloods.

There are far too many poorly conformed, unsound and not very trainable Warmbloods around now, and going for crazy prices.

Youngster is only 3, but is the most willing, trainable youngster I’ve ever worked with. Cold blooded he certainly isn’t, but he is a thinker more than a reacter.
 
I always remember back in my 20’s everyone wanted a blood type on its toes fun horse, and older ladies (apologies I don’t want to offend) mainly rode ID, cobs or other quiet natives. Perhaps now younger (non professional) riders are just not able to afford to own a horse anymore so the main amateur market is 35+mums/dads, working people who want an easy horse to pull out and ride at the weekend or a quick hack after work type. It interesting to see the changes over the years it what people actually want.
 
rhino said:
I chose native x tb for most recent purchase after having Warmbloods.

There are far too many poorly conformed, unsound and not very trainable Warmbloods around now, and going for crazy prices.

Youngster is only 3, but is the most willing, trainable youngster I’ve ever worked with. Cold blooded he certainly isn’t, but he is a thinker more than a reacter.
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Connemara x tb seem to be very popular atm. I think a lot of people are going away from the huge 16.3+ horses and opting for a nice 15- 16hh type too
 
pinkypug1 said:
Connemara x tb seem to be very popular atm. I think a lot of people are going away from the huge 16.3+ horses and opting for a nice 15- 16hh type too
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Mine is highland x tb. 15.2 (and a bit) now so will be a very useful size. Decent bone but definitely a sporty sort, moves nicely (in a more huntery than warmblood way) and has a hell of a pop (not that I’ve asked him too, just finds his own fun occasionally)
 
pinkypug1 said:
Is there no market anymore for ‘spicy horses’?? and I don’t mean rearers, bolters or buckers I mean horses with blood, a zest for life and work who aren’t plods! When I was looking for horses i looked for lighter framed ISH horses with a lot of get up & go. But now finding buyers want sedate, thicker set, quieter types. What should breeders be breeding for the general amateur market? cold blooded native X for the new market of riders? I see all these lower level blood type ISH/Warmbloods who don’t seem to sell yet ID X and native X sell quickly? Is there no market for amateur sports horses? Is it now either black type blood sports type for the professional market and quiet, native type for leisure, riding club rider?
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Of course there is a market for the sportier type. But the schooling / education has to be in place for them to be desirable to an amateur with budget to spend. The problem I see a lot of is these sporty types badly done.
 
rhino said:
Mine is highland x tb. 15.2 (and a bit) now so will be a very useful size. Decent bone but definitely a sporty sort, moves nicely (in a more huntery than warmblood way) and has a hell of a pop (not that I’ve asked him too, just finds his own fun occasionally)
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My friend had a tb x highland and he was such a solid “proper” horse like what you would’ve gotten 50 odd years ago. He was such a good type.

The spicy horses I used to see for sale would be going pretty cheap so if you couldn’t afford a pricy horse then you had to be able to ride 😂

I think it is the price of keeping horses that is limiting what people will buy now. Before you might buy a cheaper horse and make do with its limitations as you could save up for a better one while you still had one.
It’s not affordable to do that now and people want an all rounder that can go out and do it all.
 
I like forward, quick horses but I don't want something enormous, very accident or lameness prone, or over the top and I don't have the time and personal fitness to get the best out of a horse bred for top sport.

I have partbred Arabs, and they are fun and buzzy with none of the consistently delivered near-death experiences of my mad (but beloved) late thoroughbred or the athleticism to fly buck you into the moon.
 
humblepie said:
Some of the ‘spicy’ ones I know need a change of style of management or better schooling - far too much of a sweeping statement but can still have manners and be a pleasure to ride even if keen.
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My spicy girl is 25 now but has the manners of a saint she just loves her job! I totally agree with what you say! I see so many wanted adds and it’s always needs bone, needs to stand in for days and always be sane, needs to be bombproof, needs to be quiet etc and I never see wanted adds for fun, forward or spicy 😂😂😂
 
I adore proper spicy horses but they are very hard to find!
I find 99% of horses I ride are behind the leg, and anything in front of the leg, scares most riders.

However, it depends what £££ you are looking for.
Most people spending good money also like them well educated and balanced, nice movers and strong athletic ability and preferably good looking too!
Because I like the horses 99% of people don't, I do expect to pay less for them- pure supply and demand.
 
I have a spicy horse, I love him and I adore his enthusiasm for life but it’s a mixed bag. As an amateur it’s exhausting giving him his amount and variety of work he needs to stay sane, I also often daydream of having a nice relaxed horse that doesn’t test my every nerve when I ride him. But I can also appreciate him for what he is, always in front of my leg, always keen and game for whatever we’re doing and gives everything 110%. He has that extra 10% you need sometimes when you meet a beefy fence on a crap stride or need to find a 5th leg to get out of trouble, he always digs deep and never just shrugs and gives up. When I ride other people horses I find myself constantly nagging them to “get on”!

I have however just been bolted with for 8 laps of the arena doing the wall of death because a pheasant flew out the hedge and a nice sedate chunky ID sounds very appealing right now 🤣
 
I'm Dun said:
The issue is when these hot horses dont have the talent to attract the rider they need. Most people want and need an easy going, nice natured horse. The ones that dont generally want a performance horse, and lots of these horses dont have the temperament and/or skill to be competition animals.
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This. In spades.

‘spicy’ can also be the horse has pain issues. In the past people ‘rode them through pain signals’ now people are more astute and try and avoid things.
 
millitiger said:
I adore proper spicy horses but they are very hard to find!
I find 99% of horses I ride are behind the leg, and anything in front of the leg, scares most riders.

However, it depends what £££ you are looking for.
Most people spending good money also like them well educated and balanced, nice movers and strong athletic ability and preferably good looking too!
Because I like the horses 99% of people don't, I do expect to pay less for them- pure supply and demand.
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I’m not selling! I’m just a spicy forward moving horse lover and never see wanted adds for people looking them and wonder where those riders now!
 
KikiDee said:
I have a spicy horse, I love him and I adore his enthusiasm for life but it’s a mixed bag. As an amateur it’s exhausting giving him his amount and variety of work he needs to stay sane, I also often daydream of having a nice relaxed horse that doesn’t test my every nerve when I ride him. But I can also appreciate him for what he is, always in front of my leg, always keen and game for whatever we’re doing and gives everything 110%. He has that extra 10% you need sometimes when you meet a beefy fence on a crap stride or need to find a 5th leg to get out of trouble, he always digs deep and never just shrugs and gives up. When I ride other people horses I find myself constantly nagging them to “get on”!

I have however just been bolted with for 8 laps of the arena doing the wall of death because a pheasant flew out the hedge and a nice sedate chunky ID sounds very appealing right now 🤣
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Your boy sounds awesome!!!! 😂
 
pinkypug1 said:
Is there no market anymore for ‘spicy horses’?? and I don’t mean rearers, bolters or buckers I mean horses with blood, a zest for life and work who aren’t plods! When I was looking for horses i looked for lighter framed ISH horses with a lot of get up & go. But now finding buyers want sedate, thicker set, quieter types. What should breeders be breeding for the general amateur market? cold blooded native X for the new market of riders? I see all these lower level blood type ISH/Warmbloods who don’t seem to sell yet ID X and native X sell quickly? Is there no market for amateur sports horses? Is it now either black type blood sports type for the professional market and quiet, native type for leisure, riding club rider?
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Probably doesn’t help that people tend to massively understate a horse’s issues in their sales adverts, so we learn to read between the lines. ‘Forward’ generally means it tanks off or bolts, ‘competent rider’ means it’s a lunatic. So if anyone was to honestly advertise a spicy horse people would probably assume it’s a mass murderer.

For what it’s worth, I bought a pony that had been advertised 100% honestly, using the above descriptive words, and I think that’s why it had taken so long to sell. She’s an absolute gem, perfect in every way.
 
Love a forward going happy horse who is keen and sensitive. I don't know what spicy adds as a term though - slightly nutty but not madly so? Buzzy but not enough to get you off? The ones I have ridden generally need a commitment to varied work and lots of hacking which doesn't always work.

Also it's not uncommon that spicy is an avoidance tactic to avoid actually working rather than just going faster is easier.
 
My mare (profile pic) is a fairly typical PRE (okay, maybe on the laidback end of things for that breed) but I wouldn't go with 'spicy' as an adjective. But I don't think she'd be awesome as someone's weekend-only leisure ride, as good as she is in traffic and at country park chaos.
 
SEL said:
Having gone through my spicy warmblood stage then rode a lot of ex racers i decided I needed something sensible in my older years. I bought a 4yo cob.

He's been hotter than any of my warmbloods and I'm relieved he's not 16.2
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Friend bought a quiet cob to get her confidence back. Was so spooky. My ex racehorse used to just look at him and wonder 😁
 
mariew said:
Love a forward going happy horse who is keen and sensitive. I don't know what spicy adds as a term though - slightly nutty but not madly so? Buzzy but not enough to get you off? The ones I have ridden generally need a commitment to varied work and lots of hacking which doesn't always work.

Also it's not uncommon that spicy is an avoidance tactic to avoid actually working rather than just going faster is easier.
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Spicy just seems to be the latest fashion word in describing a forward going horse
 
SEL said:
Having gone through my spicy warmblood stage then rode a lot of ex racers i decided I needed something sensible in my older years. I bought a 4yo cob.

He's been hotter than any of my warmbloods and I'm relieved he's not 16.2
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My 15hh Welsh cob is one of the hottest horses I've ridden, and that includes many top end competition horses
I like it though, he is sensitive and forward thinking and very intelligent but he definitely wouldn't be everyone's ride.
I call him my Ferrari in tank's clothing!
 
fredflop said:
Spicy just seems to be the latest fashion word in describing a forward going horse
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It makes it sound more than just normal forward going horse but maybe they are the exception not the rule nowadays? As original poster said maybe a lot of people are looking for safe as houses happy plods.
 
"Spicy" is a loaded word, I think. I would look for something described as responsive, likes their work, keen maybe. If I hear spicy I think disregulated and unpredictable.
ihatework said:
Of course there is a market for the sportier type. But the schooling / education has to be in place for them to be desirable to an amateur with budget to spend. The problem I see a lot of is these sporty types badly done.
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This is it.

The people I know personally who are out and about and doing what they want to do and having a nice time bought "cold blooded" horses. They usually ended up livelier than expected but manageable! Several of those who wanted something lively (or spicy) ended up with more than they could handle.

I think most people want something that you can ask to "switch on" rather than a horse that is always switched on. Like, you want a horse that is baseline chill and relaxed with life in general? If the baseline is "wired" its so much extra work just to get through the day.
 
smolmaus said:
"Spicy" is a loaded word, I think. I would look for something described as responsive, likes their work, keen maybe. If I hear spicy I think disregulated and unpredictable.

This is it.

The people I know personally who are out and about and doing what they want to do and having a nice time bought "cold blooded" horses. They usually ended up livelier than expected but manageable! Several of those who wanted something lively (or spicy) ended up with more than they could handle.

I think most people want something that you can ask to "switch on" rather than a horse that is always switched on. Like, you want a horse that is baseline chill and relaxed with life in general? If the baseline is "wired" its so much extra work just to get through the day.
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Agree. And let’s face it working with a wired horse is no fun (and often it’s down to issues). Plenty of less competent people could take a trainable but forward alert horse and turn it into a wired wreck pretty easily. Two of mine are quite forward busy types but have been trained in a way they are reasonable secure with life and can regulate themselves for the most part.

And in answer to the OP as to why people aren’t putting wanted ads up - it’s because if you want one like that you don’t need to advertise for one, there are way to many on the market. You just need to buy a cheapy off the track or go to the Welsh sales 🤨
 
millitiger said:
My 15hh Welsh cob is one of the hottest horses I've ridden, and that includes many top end competition horses
I like it though, he is sensitive and forward thinking and very intelligent but he definitely wouldn't be everyone's ride.
I call him my Ferrari in tank's clothing!
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I rode out with my friend's dressage bred warmblood yesterday who isn't known for being a dobbin. One of them was showing piaffe in disgust at not being allowed to canter on boggy ground and it wasn't the warmblood!!

I've been in clinics where the host has asked people to give space to the little bay as he's a bit spicy. They always, always glance towards a bigger horse before my cob which makes me laugh.
 
smolmaus said:
"Spicy" is a loaded word, I think. I would look for something described as responsive, likes their work, keen maybe. If I hear spicy I think disregulated and unpredictable.

This is it.

The people I know personally who are out and about and doing what they want to do and having a nice time bought "cold blooded" horses. They usually ended up livelier than expected but manageable! Several of those who wanted something lively (or spicy) ended up with more than they could handle.

I think most people want something that you can ask to "switch on" rather than a horse that is always switched on. Like, you want a horse that is baseline chill and relaxed with life in general? If the baseline is "wired" its so much extra work just to get through the day.
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I agree, an "on/off switch" is a brilliant thing.

My Little Madam was once (and I think accurately) described by a YO as "a cold blooded head in a warm blooded body", which is the best of both worlds as far as I'm concerned. She is clever, calm and thoughtful, takes everything in her stride, and isn't phased by much. Things we've passed without issue includes: cars, tractor, combine harvesters, buses (including double-deckers), trains, bridges, sheep, a whole herd of galloping cows (that did get us to the semi-piaffe zone, TBF)... She will help me block other riders that have lot control on group hacks. However, she is no plod. She was about 10yo before she stopped jumping the "invisible jump" every time she jumped and still puts in a free buck and jump for joy if she feels like when jumping or out hacking (17yo, coming back into work after having a foal last year).
 
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