Market research, what do you think… can’t afford a horse?

[dominobrown]

ponderings… warning, this single First of many!
i have too many horses. They are nice horses though. Realistically with the cost of living crisis I am going to have to massively increase livery prices or change the way I do things.
I was wondering about leasing horses like they do in America. So basically you get a horses for ages days a week. Everything is taken care for, lessons are included if wanted, contract in place. Opportunity to compete Etc with transport.
Do you think people would be interested? If you are looking for a horse but can’t afford one would it be an option for you? Horses in question a event/ show horses, warmblood/ ISH types so quality types who have been out competing etc this summer.
I do have the set up, nice hacking, Arena etc, would have to change insurance, though would it be a good idea?could anyone see this working?
There are advantages for me. However I want it to work for potential people too. I think I can do it at a price that gives you an opportunity to have a £10k horse, with livery shoeing etc, horse transport etc, for less than they could lease a horse for weekly fee far less than the cost of owning one. Major problem is my location, I am in the Lake District, so not near a major city.

 

[twobearsarthur]

For me personally, if I were closer to you it would be something I would absolutely be interested in.
I have a 2 yr old and don’t want to not be able to ride for the next few years, so this would suit me perfectly as I don’t want to buy a second for a limited amount of time. I can’t comment on the the viability. But I do know when I was looking at options to be able to keep riding, finding somewhere that had the level of horse I wanted were impossible to find so I don’t see why they aren’t other people out there who would be interested.

 

[dominobrown]

For me personally, if I were closer to you it would be something I would absolutely be interested in.
I have a 2 yr old and don’t want to not be able to ride for the next few years, so this would suit me perfectly as I don’t want to buy a second for a limited amount of time. I can’t comment on the the viability. But I do know when I was looking at options to be able to keep riding, finding somewhere that had the level of horse I wanted were impossible to find so I don’t see why they aren’t other people out there who would be interested.

Thanks for your reply. Think it would suit a lot of people, however as you said, population density might be a problem. If Iwans located close london, so you could work in the city, have a horse to compete on the weekend and know it had been prepped through the week etc.
Also I think people will be like „how much??!!“ however if they worked out how much it would cost to keep a horse and get a loan to buy one etc it would be cheaper. Need to be sharp on the marketing…

 

[mariew]

It depends on your local access to people with money and how much you want to charge. I'm guessing childless professionals or parents with money who don't work? Or parents with ambitious teen-agers. You will know this best.

If you offer lessons would you need a riding school license?

I do think the idea has merits but marketing and target audience would be key. You need people with money who aren't worried about winter bills.

 

[teapot]

You would need to be very careful in terms of wording and contract. You’d effectively be using your horse for hire and reward - the backbone of the requirement for a riding school licence.

There may be interest but for those without a horse already, financial cost may well be the sticking point as it could be monthly cost preventing them from having their own, not purchase price.

 

[dominobrown]

I guess the licensing part would be dependent on how the contract was written, though contacting the council and enquiring would be best. You don’t need a license, though you need insurance, if teaching on own horse, or even a loan horse but in this case if I was „hiring“ the horse and giving the lesson then it might be probable.

I think we are more or less all worried about winter bills, its whether people would give up horse ownership for lease or would rather give up all together I til they can afford to buy a horse.
I was just thinking at the moment with high horse prices people might be more willing to lease rather than try and find£10k plus for a horse, and if you get a loan for a horse the way interest rates are going that will be unaffordable too.

 

[teapot]

I guess the licensing part would be dependent on how the contract was written, though contacting the council and enquiring would be best. You don’t need a license, though you need insurance, if teaching on own horse, or even a loan horse but in this case if I was „hiring“ the horse and giving the lesson then it might be probable.

Ummm yes you do need a licence for any lessons that you were to give on your own horse, whether it be the same person riding each week or someone different.

Believe there used to be a caveat of earning less than £1000 a year doing so, but the laws have changed.

 

[dominobrown]

Ummm yes you do need a licence for any lessons that you were to give on your own horse.

No “own horse“ as in the horse you own that you are hiring an instructor to have lesson on. Not „one of my horses„ unless you had loaned it and taken responsibility for it.

Basically you need a licence for horses that are being hired. Getting a licence isn’t a huge deal anyways. As it’s a small number of horses it will be ball park figure of £300 ish depending on vet costs annually.

 

[teapot]

No “own horse“ as in the horse you own that you are hiring an instructor to have lesson on. Not „one of my horses„ unless you had loaned it and taken responsibility for it.

You having a lesson on your own horse, fine.

If you were providing lessons, ie teach someone on your horse and taking payment you would be required to have a licence. Everyone thinks loaning is a way around this, it is not, and how some yards got caught out during the pandemic lockdowns.

If someone was to formally loan your horse, and they were to organise their own lessons with someone else, no licence required.

 

[dominobrown]

You having a lesson on your own horse, fine.

If you were you provide lessons, ie teach someone on your horse whether in loan or lesson format, you would be required to have a licence. Everyone thinks loaning is a way around this, it is not, and how some yards got caught out during the pandemic lockdowns.

Yes hence why talking to local council, who provide licences, and maybe getting a licence would be a reasonable course of action. No point getting a licence though if it’s not a feasible idea, hence point of thread.

 

[teapot]

Yes hence why talking to local council, who provide licences, and maybe getting a licence would be a reasonable course of action. No point getting a licence though if it’s not a feasible idea, hence point of thread.

In theory but they are not five minute jobs to do, nor cheap.

I throughly suggest you do your research - all available on the gov website who write the regs, the council only implement it. https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...sing-statutory-guidance-for-local-authorities

You also need to seriously consider how much you’d want someone paying a monthly because as I put in my previous post, I highly doubt there are going to be many people around this winter with the spare cash that you’d most likely be pricing at.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Yes, it's certainly something I'd consider. My current horse is probably now going to be retired to being a light hack and living a cushy life. I won't replace him. I don't want to give up riding, but I do want to give up the stress of ownership.

 

[w1bbler]

There's a lady in Cornwall who does this but I think it's happy hacker types rather than quality competition sorts ( hope I've not offended anyone by that statement ?).
I think it's called the riding pool, similarly rural area to you, might give you some ideas even if the target market is different

 

[ycbm]

That would be something I would very much be interested in, and actualy did when I lived in Switzerland in 1984/5, if I ever lose Ludo. It's a gap in the UK horse market. I'd prefer a commercial contractual relationship than a part loan situation, and the part time and endable commitment are just what I would want.

ETA and lack of responsibility for long term medical issues and she limiting the horses ability to stay in work.
.

 

[rara007]

There’s a few pony providers (BE/pony trials level) that do this. If I was local and was without a horse I’d be interested.

 

[dominobrown]

That would be something I would very much be interested in, and actualy did when I lived in Switzerland in 1984/5, if I ever lose Ludo. It's a gap in the UK horse market. I'd prefer a commercial contractual relationship than a part loan situation, and the part time and endable commitment are just what I would want.
.

Yes I think the commercial contractual relationship is the way to go too.
I would need to see what the market it like. The thing about happy Hacker types is that you get one and keep one very cheaply so a lot of people would rather buy, however there a plenty of people who work a lot, semi novice, enjoy riding but don’t want to commit to horse ownership.
I have managed a riding school in the past so I know how the licence works and what I need to do, it’s not a massive issue.
Cost wise it would be cheaper than owning a horse, and lower risk as if your lease horse went lame for example, you could give up the lease or switch to another horse. I would still ride/ school the horse on days not contracted to the leaser so less likelyhood of ˋruining´ horse or it being wild.
I think it would be very similar to an American model (or Swiss model!) where the cost of hunter/ jumpers is so high.

 

[dominobrown]

There's a lady in Cornwall who does this but I think it's happy hacker types rather than quality competition sorts ( hope I've not offended anyone by that statement ?).
I think it's called the riding pool, similarly rural area to you, might give you some ideas even if the target market is different

Thank you. I have looked into that and yes it’s similar.
Also I was thinking about running clinics, camps etc at the yard with different trainers and instructors so lease clients could get a discount in things like that.

 

[ihatework]

I think your location might be the sticking point.

I could see it being viable if you were close to big city and made it quite exclusive but otherwise I’d imagine the market would be sufficiently limited that it wouldn’t be worth the hassle

 

[Btomkins]

The riding licence itself may not be too expensive (although the council will charge a fee for the licence period and the vets will also charge a separate yearly inspection fee, on average of say it’s about £5-700 per year depending on how many horses you have on the licence), but don’t forget that you will also need specialist insurance that will be over 1k per year.

 

[Polos Mum]

I would have a really good think about who your ideal customer is and then try and contact them to see whether the price would be prohibitive.

Local (within 30-40 mins I'd guess to come for comps)
Reasonable level riders (to make use of level of training of the horses)
High disposable income (I'm guessing you'd be looking at c.£200 a day to cover your costs and make it worth it)
At an age where other commitments (OH / kids etc) don't take up all their free time
With the skill, money and some time they have the desire to compete but not have their own horse.

I'm not sure how many of those sorts of people there are ?

Lots of lower level riders around (like me!) who want to happy hack, prelim dressage and pop the odd log on fun ride - but they are in your £20 a ride sharer category.

Lots of wealthy people paying £1-2k pcm in livery to ride a couple of times a week (near London usually) but they want their own.

Not sure who really fits in the middle of these.

 

[mariew]

So without knowing what ballpark you have in your head, In my head that could be 250 to maybe pushing 400pm, for 3-4 days / week with a lesson or two a month thrown in? You would have to set yourself apart from the 'market' for part loans/shares for a decent horse on a nice yard to be able to charge on the higher side and possibly expect much less chores contribution.

I think comparing with the US and Switzerland is tricky as there is a lot of money in horses in those countries. England tends to be less so, and barriers to owning I feel are a lot lower here so it will be you finding that group of people who would pay for quality.

I think it would probably also help if you encouraged small group hacks out too with you as a participant.

I agree near to London would be ideal as you would maybe even be able to charge 600pm in the right place, but you never know, the recent exodus of well paid earners from London might well work in your favour.

 

[MagicMelon]

Id worry about the horses though, couldnt they be pretty easily ruined by some riders who treated them more like commodities - I think some people dont treat other peoples things nearly as nicely as their own. Like you wouldnt have any control of them competing your horses? They could injure them out eventing, then who pays for the vet fees and the then loss of riding - people wont pay if they cant ride the horse etc. What sort of insurance would you need? Sounds like a nice idea in theory but also sounds like a minefield! If they're nice horses, why dont you sell them if you dont need/want them?

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Aside from the licences you may or may not need a yard near me tried it. Nice enough horses but yard not overly great and they all live out. She hasn't had many takers at all.

 

[thefarsideofthefield]

The Lake District is a very popular place for second homes . Could there be a market for those people who come up from the city for weekends to lease a horse ?

 

[Red-1]

If it were local to me, I would have jumped at this last year.

 

[Dexter]

How much are you talking about? I just cant see people paying a reasonable amount when they can keep their own fairly cheaply or part loan even cheaper. In fact someone competent enough to event would have no issue picking up free rides.

I think it something riding schools tend to do, but its still less than keeping your own and the big draw is safe riding school ponies for kids rather than competition horses for adults. Last time I looked it was £40 a week, although that was 10yrs ago so would have gone up. DIY livery was £45 a week inc hay, plus the rest on top to give you an idea of costs.

 

[Tarragon]

We used to have a local Hunter livery yard where people would pay (presumably a lot!) to have a horse brought to a meet, already plaited up and ready to ride, having been kept, cared for and exercised for the other 5 or 6 days of the week.

 

[Muddy unicorn]

There are actually a lot of parents of older teenagers who’d be interested in leasing competition-standard horses for a couple of years. I know quite a few people who were looking for loan horses for a competent teenager to do BE/BSJA on but couldn’t find anything so ended up buying (usually younger/greener than they’d have liked) but have then had the problem of what to do with the horse when the teenager heads off to university. This was in Surrey though so not sure how much of a difference your location would make to demand

 

[Muddy unicorn]

If you could plug into your local pony club they might be able to give you an idea of local demand

 

[Ddraig_wen]

Morrigan stud in Wales successfully lease horses and ponies all over the UK. Might be worth dropping them a message to see how they do it?