Marketing stallions .. from the mare owners p.o.v

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no_no_nanette

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Doing my "Xmas shopping" for a stallion to use on my mare in 2008, I'm really struck by how easy/difficult different studs make it for the mare owner to research stallions on their websites ....

The first thing that I look for is several decent photos, to give as good an idea as possible of conformation, and preferably a video clip or two so that I can see the stallion moving, and popping over a jump ... And its amazing how many studs DON'T have that. I want info on height, age, temperament, offspring, performance record, etc, etc .... and even some of those details don't always appear. (For instance, I might know that the stallion has been standing at stud for 8+ years, so why no pics of offspring/record of their performance??)

I've just received a stud card for quite a well-known TB stallion, and the photos are grim, and there's nothing about any offspring at all. My mare doesn't have the best feet in the world, so obviously one of the things that I really want to see is evidence that the stallion has good strong feet. How many stud photos show that clearly? It makes a decision much harder to make for the mare owner - I'm unlikely to travel 100+ miles to look at a stallion if there's a risk that when I get there I discover that he's off the planet, or that his conformation won't complement/adjust my mares.

Thank goodness in this situation for so many knowledgeable people on the forum whose opinion we can ask for - but shouldn't studs get more professional about the way they market their stallions? Do you have any "good" or "bad" examples?
 
Well said! You have to be very persistent to get any information about anything.
My particular favourite was the photocopied picture in the stud card...where you'd be lucky if you worked out what species the creature was...
And the number of out of date websites....shocking, isn't it.
I also struggled to find T & C conditions online...
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I couldn't agree more, when I was looking for a stallion I did actually travel around the country to see 3 or 4 at a time and I am so glad I did as they bore no resemblance to their stud cards at all, most were streets ahead in the flesh, and there is nothing like seeing them move right there in front of you.

I can't understand why stallion owners do not do more to market their product
 
It is quite strange how unhelpful some stallion owners can be. They obviously have never heard of customer service! Over here the situation is getting better. Certainly the info on breeding and offspring is excellent and freely available. Also in feb there is a two day show of about 100 stallions. The stallions are either jumped, ridden on the flat or shown in-hand. All the studs have stands where you can ask about the stallion and chat to the owners. It is a very good idea and saves a lot of travelling around!
 
What a great idea, DAHH, I really like the idea of having stands where you can chat to the stallion owners ...

Had same experience, Pinkweasel, when we travelled to look at several stallions - but found that one had a conformational fault which wasn't at all in evidence in his stud card pic! We also went to see Utah van Erpekom, and his owner was fantastic, made special arrangements for us to see him as he was on box rest for a strain - also allowed us to see how he was after several weeks in his stable! (Fantastic! Couldn't have been more of a recommendation for his temperament)
 
One of my moans with the SHBGB is the lack of stallion parades for mares owners to come and see for themselves the good and bad points of their graded stallions. In the days of the HIS the two days at newmarket used to be the place to choose most of your stallions but in GB we seem to have gone backwards and secretive. We as a stud try to be up front and informative we also know we could do better, but we also find talking to people face to face and showing our stallion is what we say he is alot easier.
 
Yes, I used to go to the HIS days at Newmarket too...very revealing and it did help you evaluate them.
I'm really wary of the Open Days and youngstock shows...as they are not always as straightforward as you would think, IME.
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There is a stallion show held annually at Addington in mid February. So far it is a joint venture between BWBS, BHHS and TBF but a good way to see a number of British based stallions in one day. You can see the stallions in the stable block, chat to the owners and other breeders and compare stallions directly against each other. It's obviously not on a par atmosphere wise with the big German stallion shows but really worth supporting and hopefulyl will keep growing each year
 
In what way restricted Maestro? Perhaps they could open it to encorporate an even bigger demonstration. Something perhaps for the lead body to arrange? A national Stallion Show Case. Guess there would be those for and those against and certainly a great deal of work arranged.
 
I rang to ask if shbgb graded stallions could get involved last year but they said no, I supose it would make it too big. I suggested to sports horse that many people would keen to see something like the old HIS parade to lift the very dull graings they have now. It wasnt dismissed out of hand but Addington is booked up next year. I think, having just got back from the Oldneburg Gradings our societies are really missing a move although the Addington Stallion parade is perhaps a start. Some of these societies need to read some of these forums to realize that the British Breeding market is there and is well informed and keen.
 
Yay, Maestro, couldn't agree more! I'm only a hobby breeder, but I think that many of us amateurs are working hard at getting more professional and better informed about our choice of stallion, even if we are not seeking to breed the next SJ/Dressage/Eventing Olympic wonder horse. The breed societies could really harness this enthusiasm, there's so much good will out there to support breeding the best in the UK, but as so often in the horse world it feels like we are often pushing against a weight of inertia/tradition.
 
They are reading
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That is a shame though
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I think though that the shows abroad have such a vast number of stallions within one area. I mean seriously when you see the hundreds of stallions being licensed every year they really do need to take every oppertunity to get the stallions seen, competition is feirce, same bloodlines, same quality and standard, how do they go about choosing!

We hold a stallion showcase at the grading every year and the majotiry of stallions are abroad competing or all down south. Many are out there doing a weekly job with commitments and I guess they recognise that market demand is great enough that attending a stallion presentation won't really bring them any more than jumping a 1.50m class will. But in England you do have so many societies and many more stallions it sounds like it would be a great idea to diversify.
 
Just should mention that where studs do have a stallion show its incredibly helpful - Brendon Stud in Sussex have an open day every year where you can see the stallions in their stable, and then they are brought out and ridden, jumped, or loose schooled if they are unbroken. It allows mare owners to compare the types, temperaments, conformation .... and Shirley does a great job on picking the music and commentating! I realise that you can only really do this if you are a larger stud, although Hobgoblin in Sussex also have an open day, though they don't have the number of stallions that Brendons do.

.... and talking of music, shamefaced admission that I'm an absolute sucker for inspiring music on stallion videos
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... check out Utah van Erpekom, or the most GORGEOUS stallion that eventrider23 has just discovered - Sovereign on http://www.sambertino.com/souvenir I realise that this completely contradicts what I was saying about getting more professional about stallion choice, but, hey!
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Coming in to this a bit late, but i couldn't agree more with many of the points raised.

It is a difficult situation, stallions are similar in price over here as abroad and the societies abroad do have extremely high standards and not only are the stallions licenced on conformation, movement, jumping but they are then performance tested on rideability etc, because of this system it is easy to know a stallions rideability and all other qualities. The current system with many uk societies is much less transparant and on occasions some societies have been known to approve horses which have failed to licensed abroad, there is no system to say how good its temprement is when ridden as with the performance tests there are in germany and holland, which makes british breeding less apealing to a world wide market, because of the fact that they are prepared to license stallions which have been refused licenses else where.

Promotion of stallions (and the equestrian world in general) is poor (and completely reliant on the individual owners, many of whom do a very good job) and the number of mares covered are fewer, and foals don't make anywhere near the same money as abroad. Why is it that someone is prepared to go from uk to germany and pay 40,000 for instance, and yet the top price at brigtwells for the last few years is approx 7,000 for foals of similar breeding and quality?? Brightwells didn't even run their foal gala this year which was a real shame, due to lack of entries, possibly bought about by lower prise money.

We also went to the oldenburg stallion licensing and parade and it is unlike anything offered in the uk which is such a shame. I think there is a bit of a chicken egg situation as stud fee's are similar wheather buying from uk or abroad and we arn't therefore having the numbers of coverings by uk stallions as there could be, thus not providing a massive impitus to stallion owners to go to shows that arn't going to be particularly well done/well recieved/financially valuable. There isn't the same money in breeding over here as abroad there isn't things like this being set up, promotted and attended and we're going forward but a little slowly. For example we attended the british warmblood/bhhs/tbf stallion display at Addington a couple of weeks after attending the Schockemohle stallion parade. The display in Germany was packed with breeders from all over the world and the show was amazing, by contrast there were only a handful (less than 50) spectators at addington and we were told 'sit together it makes it look there there is more of you'!!!!! when it came out in h&h the number of breeders had risen to 200-300!!!! Another point that i noticed was that it was only british stud books that were mentioned during the display, when some stallions were approved by world wide stud books, and although it was a british breeding display it is still nice to know who else has approved it.

I think we need to raise the profile and value of breeding in the uk, and to do a big stallion show would be a good start. I think it should be free to enter stallions, which i realise that these things are expensive and i'm not being naive and imagining that the money will apear from nowhere, but surely there must be a way to get it off the ground, I also think that it shouldn't be limited to three societies, all sports horse societies should attend.

Stallions are naturally show offs and what better way to let them be seen in such a wonderful flashy and impressive way that is a stallion show, perhaps combined with a auction?? (maybe with a % of sales going toward funding the event). I think the idea from a reply by DAHH of stands as they do abroad is a fantastic idea, giving the breeders a chance to talk to stallion owners, see further information and photo's and collect stud cards/dvd to go home home with, having seen the stallions in the flesh, and view them for further consideration.

Sorry this is long, but i feel strongly about the british breeding system.
 
Really interesting, ESHjess, and not too long at all! I so agree with the points that you make, and think that the question of temperament and rideability is such a critical one that as a mare owner you often can only discover through informal research and asking "the experts" on this forum - which is not really as it should be. It MUST result in some stallions who have fairly poisonous temperaments being bred from and passing problems on down the generations. I know of one in the South East, for instance, who has a good "name", and obviously gets a number of mares, has a reasonable performance record, but who can be really vicious and dangerous to handle, and is very tricky to ride .... If we had a really robust licencing system he would never be approved, and people would draw their own conclusions. Its an issue that really links with the debate in "Foolish Questions .." - some top studs/professional riders may choose to breed from very sharp stallions, but for many who are not aiming to produce the next world-beating performance horse temperament and rideability is sooooo important.

There seem to be an awful lot of us who are really keen to see the UK scene become much more professional - so why is it that so little is happening so slowly?
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Its obvious on this forum alone that there is some useful well informed British Breeders who feel they are knocking their heads against a brick wall in getting the stud books in this country to up their game. If its about money and committment I for one would be happy to get more involved and would rather throw some of my advertising budget into a more efficient SHB(GB). The German Breed Societies cost more to be in but the benefits are for all to see, their stock are not always better but are marketed much better.
 
Ooh another post which discusses all my issues with 'the industry'. Please also read the NaSta post for discussion partly on marketing stallions to. Here are some of my thoughts;
- have some form of performance testing, even like what NaSta currently do, something is better than nothing
- stallions have a fairer chance to grade as they are assessed over a longer period, not a 10min show in front of graders who barely turn their heads to watch
- temperament can be determined more easily if the stallions are assessed over several days
- the performance testing could turn into an event, a parade at the end of the week, spectators could watch all parts of the testing. If all studbooks were compulsory attendees, then it would be quite an event
- it would be worth booking time off work to go to one place to see many stallions across the studbooks, and not just stallions parading but doing dressage, sj, xc.
- have studbooks present on stands at the event, they can then market themsleves to stallion and mare owners for their business. I don't know how everyone else feels but I hand my money to the studbook and don't even get an up to date website back! Maybe they will be try harder if they had direct competition and had to fight for their business
- there are concerns over stallions who are mis marketed - probably because they failed their grading or vetting. In the current system this will never change and now some foals are registered unknown. How about a system like the Irish horse board - have graded stallions then supplementary stallions who may fail for some reason. This way all progeny is papered and of known pedigree, over time the market can decide the quality and the amount of use of the supplementary stallion.
- if all UK stallions in the UK studbooks were graded at one independant one week event it would be quite evident and clear which grade level the stallion reached. At the moment the studbook websites publish the graded stallions several months after the event - how do you know that a stallion you are looking at was never presented or actually failed?
- brochures detailing breeding, DVD and photos at the event which you could order at the end

I have sold the idea to anyone yet? From previous comments I have had, it's the studbooks not wanting to pull in the same direction
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. What if we all voted with our feet and backed one studbook or even create our own ('The Sport Horse Information Society' no forget it!!
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