Martingale and dutch gag query

[ester]

DressageDevil

thanks for your description of the action of dutch gag, is best I have seen and makes sense. I have often wondered why it slides.

 

[DressageDevil]

Ester, you're very welcome

I really am bowing out now, dogs to walk and wine to drink!

 

[JavaJaneW]

Thank you from me too DD, that was a really helpful bit of info

I love learning how different bits and bridles work

 

[kinkin]

I agree with Murphy88 my showjumping ponies both used dutch gag / running martingale combination although martingale was not particualrly tight. they were both happy going in this combination and believe me we tried everything to slow the little devils down, they just knew there job so well and this gave me enough steering and brakes with them. I wouldnt say it was anything to do with schooling as they both would work quite happily in snaffles when there were no jumps in sight, I suppose its horses for courses and to some extent the way the rider uses the bit/ their hands. Though after this ramble at the time id never heard of the combination conflicting, maybe I would have tried something else, had I known?

 

[oofadoofa]

Yes DD, I thought it was a good example of what you were saying!

Although do have to say that that bit was the only thing I could sort of hold him in XC and if I didn't have the martingale his ears were in my face.

That photo's going back about 10 years and at the time didn't think to try much else!

 

[celia]

Thanks for the explaination. Very interesting. Not a bit I've ever used myself and not sure I'd want to after reading that! I don't ever really use martingales either tbh!

(Not sure why I felt qualified to post actually - but bits and their uses/action etc really fascinate me.)

ETA - meant to reply to DD not ester, sorry if I've confused anyone.

 

[DressageDevil]

I'm not really back on line shhhhhh lol

Oofa - just wanted to add, he really is rather yummy, would love to see some more pics of him

Thx for the kind comments

 

[oofadoofa]

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Oofa - just wanted to add, he really is rather yummy, would love to see some more pics of him

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Well if you insist!

My favourite

And him last year at the age of 23 coming out of retirement for ex racers class...

 

[teddyt]

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Apologies if I'm incorrect here, but I presume what we're refering to as a dutch gag is a multi-ringed snaffle which I've always seen to lower the head as it mainly uses poll pressure..? If this is the case I can't see a problem with it being used in conjunction with a martingale.

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Hi

No you're not entirely wrong, yes there is poll pressure but the way the ring and mouth piece is designed the poll pressure doesn't work in quite the same way.
The bit was designed to be used with 2 reins for a start, the top rein causing a lifting action in the mouth, the bottom rein causing the poll pressure, with each rein balancing the action of the other.
The two actions together were designed for schooling horses destined for high school training - its correct name is the continental snaffle.
The aim of the bit is to encourage a raised head and neck with the nose brought in to the vertical to help encourage a lighter forehand.

Using the bit with one rein confuses those signals which typically results in the horse going behind the bit/vertical as the poll pressure is quite extreme, when that single rein is used on the bottom ring, plus without the top rein to balance the bottom the bit ring slides through the mouth piece raising the bit in the mouth at an angle the top rein wouldn't allow - the horse now has no escape from the action but to duck behind the pressure, this helps stop the bit raising in the mouth and relieves a little of the poll pressure.
Now, add to all that the downward pressure of a martingale (incidentally most running martingale are fitted too short) - you can see how the picture starts to build up......

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Hoorah! Someone who knows how a dutch gag/continental snaffle/bubble bit/3 ring (even though its got 4 rings) gag......
Maybe if all the people who used one read this their horse might be a bit more comfortable. I have yet to see a horse ridden in one actually go well, relaxed and happy without tension,hollowing the back, opening the mouth, etc etc.
They must be used with two reins, not one rein on the bottom ring!

 

[hellybelly6]

I am with DD and Teddyt.

DD explained the dutch gag action very well and its something I have been trying to do, but couldnt!

I find the NS Universal is the only bit my horse doesnt lean with and put his chin between his legs onto the girth.