master zero event horse for sale

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pokerface

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Was just thinking that £25 000 seems v cheap for this event horse?! noticed it for sale on BE website and u can see its record, it has done well to 3 star ok sj bit dodgy and is only 10. They r prob thinking it wont go 4 star but cant see why, as its record does nt seem to indicate that, a young rider or if it was with an agent would prob pay alot more
 
TheMule said:
But it does play skittles in th sj
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Yeah, at every level with multiple top riders. We've got a skittler, and it's really quite depressing at times and definitely wipes out the possibilities of YR stuff... I mean, if you wanted a comparatively cheap way of getting experience at that level he'd be fine, but if you wanted to have success too you'd struggle.
 
Think i could live with a few sj s down if it did a nice test and clear xc round my first 3 star/4star look at williams fox pitts pau horse, im surprised this horse has not been sold word of mouth to another pro might get a better sj out of it, still seems odd to me!
 
Then you should buy it. :)

There could be all sorts of reasons for the price.

Most of the horses at Pau who had rails do not routinely knock up cricket scores. That was a particularly testing situation. Even a YR, bad sj'ing is an issue if it loses you QRs. I'm pretty sure if someone thought it was an easy fix we'd not even know the horse was for sale
 
I agree TarrSteps. Rosie was bought a horse with a fab record bar the SJ (didn't cost £25k but was a lot of money) to give her a chance of getting on the junior team. As SJ was her forte, we all hoped she could get him jumping more successfully. He did improve but he was always unreliable over coloured poles and we discovered later that WFP had tried him but decided the SJ was simply not good enough.
She got as far as being a reserve but never did make the team proper by the way.
 
If the Pros that have competed the horse cannot sort the SJ ,I doubt anybody can they are both international riders. What surprises me is they have persevered so long!
If the price was half it will still struggle as who will want it .
 
pokerface said:
Think i could live with a few sj s down if it did a nice test and clear xc round my first 3 star/4star look at williams fox pitts pau horse, im surprised this horse has not been sold word of mouth to another pro might get a better sj out of it, still seems odd to me!
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William's 5 down in Pau was particularly out of character for that horse who is normally a lovely and reliable jumper. Some super jumpers had fences down in Pau so the moderate jumpers really struggled not to clock up a lot of faults. It is expensive and soul destroying having a horse that is a consistently bad show jumper. They are of no value for team horses as you might just as well take a bad dressage horse where there is more chance of improving it. At any level a team horse needs to be capable of finishing on it's dressage score - it is easy enough for any horse to have a rail but it should be the exception not the rule.
This horse's dressage is ok but not exceptional even with Ruth so there is no margin for staying competitive and having fences. I can completely understand why it isn't more expensive and there hasn't been a rush of people wanting him. He has been ridden by good riders without improvement so is not really a schoolmaster or a competitive horse.
 
There is also no guarantee the horse would be any more reliable at a lower level, especially since that would also involve a less experienced rider. If it doesn't have a conscience then the size of the fences won't necessarily make a difference.
 
TarrSteps said:
There is also no guarantee the horse would be any more reliable at a lower level, especially since that would also involve a less experienced rider. If it doesn't have a conscience then the size of the fences won't necessarily make a difference.
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Especially as he has never made a habit of jumping clear at any level - 3 one year otherwise 1 or 2 clears a year.
 
pokerface said:
Think i could live with a few sj s down if it did a nice test and clear xc round my first 3 star/4star look at williams fox pitts pau horse, im surprised this horse has not been sold word of mouth to another pro might get a better sj out of it, still seems odd to me!
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It's not like he's been ridden by novices/ up-and-comers... He's had 2 exceptionally experienced riders not find the right buttons to get him over the poles.

I mean, I understand that he could be a really good horse for someone who wants a horse who does know his job XC to teach them the ropes. But he's not a hit-and-miss SJer, he's an outright pole-basher. And because he's been with pros it's unlikely to be something that can be attributed to medical problems such as dodgy hocks because those avenues will have been explored. For £25k you could find a much more appealing YR/ junior horse who might get you noticed (it is only 1/2*), and probably a horse who's ready to step up to 3* who might have a poor dressage record. Which is much more solvable/ easy to cope with than pole-bashing.
 
Wow people are harsh on the poor horse!!! Looked up his record expecting to see a string of 4/5 fences down judging by what people are saying... He's mostly a 4/8 faulter the odd occasion going clear and the odd rare occasion 16/20 faults ! Its not like his main jockey is the best showjumper in the world either or consistently wins. Know people that have paid £80k for 2/3 star horses the same age who are consistently getting 3/4 poles, av dressage and a few time faults XC.. This horse certainly has a better record
 
DonkeyClub said:
Wow people are harsh on the poor horse!!! Looked up his record expecting to see a string of 4/5 fences down judging by what people are saying... He's mostly a 4/8 faulter the odd occasion going clear and the odd rare occasion 16/20 faults ! Its not like his main jockey is the best showjumper in the world either or consistently wins. Know people that have paid £80k for 2/3 star horses the same age who are consistently getting 3/4 poles, av dressage and a few time faults XC.. This horse certainly has a better record
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RE and MK may find this interesting reading!!!
If you look more carefully at his record you will notice he is not exactly point and shoot CC either.
A desperate marketing excersise failure?
 
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am I reading the same comp history?

since 2009 he has competed in 40 events, from Novice up to 3*. at these events he has had 12 or more SJ faults at 5 of them. the rest were 1 - 2 fences down.


without looking into the ground at these events, you don't know if the horse hates jumping from mud or hard ground etc. He has gone clear at 9 events so for me I'm not sure I would class him as a total pole basher? some horses routinely have 3 or more down - and thats only at 90/100.

He was withdrawn after SJ at 3 events, and picked up xc jump faults at 4 of them. the rest (33) he completed xc clear. He did get time faults in most, but has finished in the top 10 in 17 events (OI, 1* and Novice mostly).

So with having some pro riders on board I'd say he hasn't done too badly, yes he probably isn't a 3* horse, probably more a 1* to 2* but likely to be good for a young rider surely? Not that I could ever afford a £25k horse, but if they want to offer him on loan I'd take him on ;)

maybe I'm reading his history wrong?
 
ArcticFox said:
am I reading the same comp history?

since 2009 he has competed in 40 events, from Novice up to 3*. at these events he has had 12 or more SJ faults at 5 of them. the rest were 1 - 2 fences down.


without looking into the ground at these events, you don't know if the horse hates jumping from mud or hard ground etc. He has gone clear at 9 events so for me I'm not sure I would class him as a total pole basher? some horses routinely have 3 or more down - and thats only at 90/100.

He was withdrawn after SJ at 3 events, and picked up xc jump faults at 4 of them. the rest (33) he completed xc clear. He did get time faults in most, but has finished in the top 10 in 17 events (OI, 1* and Novice mostly).

So with having some pro riders on board I'd say he hasn't done too badly, yes he probably isn't a 3* horse, probably more a 1* to 2* but likely to be good for a young rider surely? Not that I could ever afford a £25k horse, but if they want to offer him on loan I'd take him on ;)

maybe I'm reading his history wrong?
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Have to say, I agree. He might not be a perfect 3*/advanced horse but still a good one for somebody who wants to compete at OI/2*. We'd have him :)

Feel a bit sorry for the owners too, having their horse pulled to bits by everyone :(
 
We own a horse who Ruth competed for us eventing and dressage at the start of his career. He was not a good showjumper and therefore came back to us after several years with Ruth for us to compete and enjoy ourselves - and he is a great example of how that early training has paid off. He is still delightful to ride, and learnt so much from his time with Ruth. So if I was wanting to buy a horse competed by a professional, I would have every confidence buying from Ruth, who produces them so carefully and well.
 
I don't think anyone is bashing him! I think they are answering the question why is he not in the "closing in on six figures" price point that some (very few) top horses command.

After all, that's still a lot of money. Interesting that they people saying he's a bargain are still not ponying up their own money. ;) (Which is my point, the sort of people who aren't in it for the top goal can't afford £25k!)

If the market is JR/YR then the fact that he is probably not a Team horse is germane. Any parent with deep enough pockets to be serious about making that happen for their kid is not going to knowingly pay top whack for a horse that probably won't make it right to the end goal. That's a very time sensitive, highly competitive segment of the discipline!

If the market is a good amateur who wants something to get experience on, the price isn't insane. After all, how many people can afford that sort of money just for experience but, as with the kids, aren't at least dreaming about winning?

Besides which, we don't know anything about it. No one here has ridden or vetted him! Maybe the owners don't want to continue running him with a pro indefinitely and are pricing him to find a good home rather than squeeze every last penny out of him - something people on here are always being encouraged to do!
 
Tanta said:
We own a horse who Ruth competed for us eventing and dressage at the start of his career. He was not a good showjumper and therefore came back to us after several years with Ruth for us to compete and enjoy ourselves - and he is a great example of how that early training has paid off. He is still delightful to ride, and learnt so much from his time with Ruth. So if I was wanting to buy a horse competed by a professional, I would have every confidence buying from Ruth, who produces them so carefully and well.
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I think, even just for that reason alone, he will get interest. She is such a good producer, having the ride on a horse she's made would be literally invaluable for anyone's feel and development as a rider. In which case £25k is about the price of a university degree, which is what a horse like this is.
 
Why are we even discussing this? The owners perhaps simply want a quick sale for whatever reason hence the £25k, or it could be a horrid pain in the ass to ride or handle! Who knows, but to be honest who cares unless you're interested in buying it?! £25k is still a lot of money IMO, although to some people on here its probably pennies.
 
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