mating dogs - again

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welshies

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Hi, thanks for all the replies to my last post regarding time to breed! Bitch is in her 11th day of cycle today, had a go yesterday just incase as we don't want to miss it, but she wasn't in the slightest bit interested! Kept warning him off and mounting him! Her owner seems to think from seeing her previous seasons she does usually present. She'll walk her and she will cry and whinge until she winds up all the dogs in the area!!! But i just wanted to know if anyone had any tips? How long should we leave them together before they are likely to mate?? Should we consider holding the bitch a little as she is a bit of a live wire! We thought it might be too early yesterday but just don't want to miss this it!We are going to try again today.
 
Have just checked your previous post, are you using an experienced stud dog or are they both maidens? If the dog knows what he is doing he is probably your best guide to if the bitch is ready or not. In my experience it is best to let them play together for a few minutes to get the bitch flirting. If she won't entertain him at all then you're are probably too early. If she is flirting but won't stand for him then you could try holding her, but this can put some dogs off, particularly if they are inexperienced. I am not a fan of forced matings, I have known of breeders muzzle bitches and sedate them to get them mated, a no go as far as I am concerned. Muzzling is ok, no-one wants their top stud dog maimed, but further than that is wrong in my humble opinion. You say the bitch is mounting the dog so is showing some flirtatious behaviour, I would let them have a play together again either today or tomorrow and see if she is any more receptive. When you say how long should you leave them together, do you mean unsupervised, cos I have to say that is something I wouldn't do, not without being able to keep a discreet eye on things. You really do need to be there when they tie to prevent possible injury to the dog, (although I know dogs have managed in the street for centuries without help!)
 
Hi, i own the dog and yes they are both maidens but he deff gets it! He will tell you about a week before a bitch comes into season and will spend his time trying to get on where ever he can and hump the air! He is also very dominant but never nasty. He really was trying but she just kept turning on him, giving him a warning. They are friends, they have been having meetings previous to the season and get on very well. I would never want to pin her down or anything, i just thought maybe if she is obviuosly ready but not really getting it maybe we should help a little. Wouln't want to muzzle her, she is a sweet little thing and apart from literally just warning him, she would never harm him. He is nearly 5 and she is 3. She's only going to have one litter. When i say leave them to it i mean let him get on her without any intervention, they will not be left for a second!!! I'll be a nervious wreck as it is!!! Weather prob didn't help, it was snowing and they would keep still and stay in the stable! We let them play for about 20 mins and she was just getting fed up with his advances.
 
You could certainly try letting them play for a bit and then getting hold of her. I have to say, and realise its probably a bit late now, I would think twice about using a dog at 5 for the first time, unless you were thinking of keeping him at stud after that. If he was keen on the ladies before he will quite likely become quite a pain after he has actually done the deed. Can I ask why you actually want them to have a litter? And please don't think I am ignoring you if I don't reply till later today, have to go to work now!
 
We kept him entire as we thought we'd like him to have a litter at some point, he's actually 4, 5 in January. Time has flown by and just so happened a local lady asked if she could use him, they're not the most common of breeds so is quite a coincedence, plus we know the lady from years back. He's only a pain when bitches are due in season and he's not that bad, i know he might get worse but he might not, you'd never do anything if you lived on 'what ifs'. I don't mean to sound rude as i know what you are saying and appreciate your help but we haven't just suddenly thought over night lets breed! This has been going on for the last 6 months, we have gone through all the pedigree, etc etc, My dog is such a wonderful boy he really is and it would be a shame not to carry him on, his has exclelent breeding too; his auty won best of breed at crufts in 2000, and he has a wonderful character and temperament, plus his sister is the best gun dog her owner has ever had. She is well bred too but more working lines, and also has ex temp etc. Plus i have had dogs before and worked in a boarding kennels, i don't clame to be an expert but who is!? We would be happy to use him again if people wanted him. We'll just have to see what happens today!
 
Don't worry, I don't think you sound rude. You have obviously done your research, and as you say his attitude to bitches might not alter. And if he has good working lines you might well find other people want to use him. Hope everything goes okay today, keep us updated.
 
You may have a bit of a wait as this is new to both of them. We used an unproven stud on one of our bitches who had already had a litter and we'd nearly given up the ghost. We left them outside playing and were on the verge of bringing her inside and going home when he finally decided he was going to perform - mad rush back outside!! LOL that's how long we had to wait.

I wouldn't worry about using an inexperienced dog on a maiden bitch - we've done this before too successfully.

This may sound daft but a hint for seeing if she's ready is to scratch her on her back just above her tail, if she moves her tail to the side it's usually a pretty good indication that she's receptive.

I would hold off holding them until he's mounted her because you may put them both of, if necessary make sure you hold her because he knows you and its more likely him to be put off.

Does that make sense?? Can't think of a better way to word it!!

Don't go into panic mode, not every bitch is ready on day 11 and you normally have a 5 day period. When I had my first litter of Jacks my original choice of stud dog wouldn't perform, we got one mating off a different dog on the last day she was receptive, her colour had started coming back! And she had 5 pups. Not advising you do that but just giving an example.

I wouldn't worry about how old he is either, we've used dogs older than 4yrs for the first time, you'll get a mating eventually, esp if he's interested.

Don't know if that's much help to you or not.
 
Yeh forgot to say don't worry about 11 day, or even when the discharge starts paling. I had one bitch who mated on 21 day and had a litter of 9, and another who had gone off colour and then came back into full colour, after we had driven for 4 hours on Boxing Day in the snow! She also held and had a good litter.
 
Thanks, i've actually got a very poorly pony on my hands now so didn't meet yesterday but going to see if mom can sort them tonight.
 
Thanks, ponies not good but stable, not much i can do now but keep checking him and wait and see (has been diagnosed with a masive heart murmur). We put the dogs together and got a mate but they didn't tie. She was humping his head and he was humping the air next to her but she was obviously ready, completely diff to last time, and he eventually climbed aboard! Mated twice for about 5 mins but as i said didn't tie. We had to hold her steady as she was a bit taken aback and yelped a bit. We put him in another room after as he wouldn't give up, he screamed the place down but she still kept going to the door and crying at him so she's obviously not too put off! That was her 12th day and she started to change colour. We are going to try again today as they didn't tie and then a couple of times every other day if it is successful (so long as pony is ok). He was certainly pleased with himself!
 
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