Max horse weight 3.5 tonne

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cheekywelshie

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A friend and I are looking to travel to the beach. My thinking is that I will tow mine in my trailer ( can only carry 1 horse) and she can hire a 3.5. She suggested us both going in a 3.5 but I think this will be over the weight limit : her pony is 510 mine is 570?? The other option is 5 tonne but I can't find one to hire.
 
Legally, you're probably right.

Many get away with it every day, though, and many of the vehicles (e.g. Renault Master) are quite safe to carry heavier loads than legally permitted. So ultimately, it's up to you and personal risk balance.
 
MissTyc said:
Legally, you're probably right.

Many get away with it every day, though, and many of the vehicles (e.g. Renault Master) are quite safe to carry heavier loads than legally permitted. So ultimately, it's up to you and personal risk balance.
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If you would be legally overweight, you would be very foolish to take 2 in a 3.5, as if you were involved in an accident (even not your fault), you would probably find that your insurance was invalid - and if the vehicle was hired you would have to replace it almost immediately.
 
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MissTyc said:
Legally, you're probably right.

Many get away with it every day, though, and many of the vehicles (e.g. Renault Master) are quite safe to carry heavier loads than legally permitted. So ultimately, it's up to you and personal risk balance.
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I have a Renault Master, and to make it safe to carry 3.995 tonnes I had to uprate the suspension.

Also, take note that the weight is when the boxes are new, and not usually with full water and fuel tanks. Once the wood has absorbed some water etc the box will be heavier anyway, and it will likely be full of fuel.
 
Yep obv check the payloads but I’d be surprised if there are many 3.5t that can take 2 horses riders and kit. Ponies probably yes, horses unlikely. Like the above poster, some have really small payloads.
 
MissTyc said:
Legally, you're probably right.

Many get away with it every day, though, and many of the vehicles (e.g. Renault Master) are quite safe to carry heavier loads than legally permitted. So ultimately, it's up to you and personal risk balance.
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Yes that's what I was thinking. I suppose we could hire a 4 x4 and a trailer for two but then that gets expensive
 
You'd need to check the payload of the 3.5t you hired. It MIGHT be possible, if one of you went in a separate car with all your tack/water/etc. But at that point, you might as well take your trailer and guarantee you weren't over the weight limit.
 
MissTyc said:
Legally, you're probably right.

Many get away with it every day, though, and many of the vehicles (e.g. Renault Master) are quite safe to carry heavier loads than legally permitted. So ultimately, it's up to you and personal risk balance.
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This. I am probably often 100kg over or so, and wouldn't do so if it was outside of the lorries capabilities, but these vehicles on the continent are fine to 3.9 tonne so I am happy to run the risk of being a little over from a legal point of view, but would not do so if it was a safety issue.

There is so much hype about payload for 3.5 tonnes, yet so many 7.5 tonnes stalled for 3 have nowhere near enough payload to cover that yet people merrily drive them around assuming its fine.
 
Red-1 said:
I have a Renault Master, and to make it safe to carry 3.995 tonnes I had to uprate the suspension.

Also, take note that the weight is when the boxes are new, and not usually with full water and fuel tanks. Once the wood has absorbed some water etc the box will be heavier anyway, and it will likely be full of fuel.
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I had totally different advice from trustee mechanic re suspension. I don't mind being 100kg or so over personally, but wouldn't be putting two big horses in mine for example.
 
Michen said:
I had totally different advice from trustee mechanic re suspension. I don't mind being 100kg or so over personally, but wouldn't be putting two big horses in mine for example.
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Ours was done by Bloomfields, who made the box. It would have been easier if it did not need all that, but it did.

It had to be re-plated by VOSA (No longer a simple MOT like a 3.5) to carry the extra weight, one of the tests was that we had uprated the suspension as well as fitted a limiter as it comes under different rules.

The uprated suspension is a simple job, but the fuss is not simple.

The new limiter had to be certified. It also needs testing as an LGV every year from new, unlike a 3.5. It is a different set of rules.
 
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Michen said:
This. I am probably often 100kg over or so, and wouldn't do so if it was outside of the lorries capabilities, but these vehicles on the continent are fine to 3.9 tonne so I am happy to run the risk of being a little over from a legal point of view, but would not do so if it was a safety issue.

There is so much hype about payload for 3.5 tonnes, yet so many 7.5 tonnes stalled for 3 have nowhere near enough payload to cover that yet people merrily drive them around assuming its fine.
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So, you are happy to drive with no insurance? From the legal point of view, you are not insured.....think of the implications for you, your horse, your passengers AND more importantly the INNOCENTS who may be impacted if you are involved in an accident.

It's irrelevant what others do...am gobsmacked.
 
I would have to agree with Tiddlypom. If you wouldn't drive a car while you're uninsured (and I am sure you wouldn't) why would you drive a box that's uninsured because you have chosen to overload it?

I had assumed that people overloaded out of ignorance - not wilfully.
 
A friend of mine has a 3.5t van conversion. Payload is quite large for one of these but still she travels 2 x 16hh or even 1x 16hh and 1 x 17hh in it plus people and tack. It scares the living daylights out of me! Just because you can doesn't mean you should in my book.
Op- I think your original plan with yours in a trailer and a hired box for the other is probably best :)
 
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Fair enough point guys- I understand entirely. I’m very used to a casual world/upbringing of people driving trailers without trailer licenses, lorries without lorry licenses etc (particularly in Scottish farming community!) so I probably have an irresponsible view of it. Not saying that’s right of course ;)

I’m not sure how an insurance company could possibly know you are overweight and avoid paying a claim though, my lorry payload I believe is 1.1 tonne. My horse weighs 420, I take another horse the same size, tack/people/water/hay etc. So if I am overweight, it’s crtainly not by drastic amounts and they’d have to take my (assumingly crumpled if in an accident) lorry, the horses and kit to a weighbridge to check?

Seems unlikely. But I am not justifying knowingly driving slightly overweight- just being honest. If you go to any horse event you’ll see a huge proportion of the 3.5 tonne drivers doing the same. 🤷‍♀️
 
Having also grown up in a very rural Scottish farming community, I understand that attitude - but if your roads were anything like ours, the chances of meeting much traffic were very slim, and the roads themselves prevented getting much speed up, so the risks (to others!) were also inherently lower!
 
Theocat said:
Having also grown up in a very rural Scottish farming community, I understand that attitude - but if your roads were anything like ours, the chances of meeting much traffic were very slim, and the roads themselves prevented getting much speed up, so the risks (to others!) were also inherently lower!
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Not quite where I was! Oil industry area within commuter distance.

Regardless, I now live down south and that certainly is busy. Plenty of overloading, towing etc around here also. I’m not saying it’s right, but it is what I’m used to.

As I said above, I cannot imagine a situation where an insurance company would have your lorry weighed with everything on board in the case of an accident to try not to pay out. The payload could be on the side of legal or not depending on whether you have a 6 foot burly bloke as your passenger or a lanky teenager! Perhaps if it was reported in the accident that you were carrying two 17.2hh horses and couldn’t possibly have been within the payload.

If anyone has heard of, or experienced a situation where an insurance company has demanded such a test I’d be very interested to know and re frame my thinking.
 
Anyone driving an over weight van without having taken an additional driving test is driving without a licence, without insurance and overweight. The penalty for all that if caught is likely to be huge. The penalty for all that if caught because of an accident could be a prison sentence.

Spot checks of commercial vehicles are not unknown. The Police might also pull you over and send you to a weighbridge if the horses shift when they are traveling behind you and rock the van making it look as if you are carrying an overweight load.
 
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Michen said:
As I said above, I cannot imagine a situation where an insurance company would have your lorry weighed with everything on board in the case of an accident to try not to pay out. The payload could be on the side of legal or not depending on whether you have a 6 foot burly bloke as your passenger or a lanky teenager! Perhaps if it was reported in the accident that you were carrying two 17.2hh horses and couldn’t possibly have been within the payload.

If anyone has heard of, or experienced a situation where an insurance company has demanded such a test I’d be very interested to know and re frame my thinking.
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It's the police who will get you weighed if there is an accident they are called to which you are involved in and they suspect you are over weight.

You're risking not only a rejection of your claim on your insurance, but a rejection of other people's claim on your insurance,( leaving you liable to pay what could, feasibly, amount to millions if someone is badly injured and it's your fault), a criminal regard, a huge fine, possible imprisonment and a driving ban. And in your case that probably also means loss of your job if you are still on the road in sales.

I am stunned you knowingly take this risk.
 
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ycbm said:
It's the police who will get you weighed if there is an accident they are called to which you are involved in and they suspect you are over weight.
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So you’ve been in an accident, with livestock on board and they are going to get you to drive to a weighbridge to check if you are within weight? Presumably if in an accident and at fault, you are likely to have some frightened animals on board or damage to vehicle.

I’m sorry, absolutely NOT saying that it’s right or justifying my decision to sometimes take two horses (whatever anyone else does), but this just seems really unlikely.

I can be absolutely certain (in fact I know!) that there are plenty of forum members on here who will be doing exactly the same as me but wouldn’t likely admit it.
 
Michen said:
So you’ve been in an accident, with livestock on board and they are going to get you to drive to a weighbridge to check if you are within weight? Presumably if in an accident and at fault, you are likely to have some frightened animals on board or damage to vehicle.

I’m sorry, absolutely NOT saying that it’s right or justifying my decision to sometimes take two horses (whatever anyone else does), but this just seems really unlikely.

I can be absolutely certain (in fact I know!) that there are plenty of forum members on here who will be doing exactly the same as me but wouldn’t likely admit it.
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Don't be obtuse Michen. All the contents of the van and the van itself will be known and can be weighed. If you are involved in a serious accident and there is a doubt about your load weight, then they can find it out. And there are plenty of serious accidents that could kill or critically injure someone while leaving the van completely usable.

If you don't have an extended licence then you are driving with no licence and no insurance. Do you have enough money to support someone for the rest of their life if you cripple them in an accident?

I find your attempt at self justification even more disturbing than your deliberate risk taking.

You really need to put your spade down.
 
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ycbm said:
Don't be obtuse Michen. All the contents of the van and the van itself will be known and can be weighed. If you are involved in a serious accident and there is a doubt about your load weight, then they can find it out. And there are plenty of serious accidents that could kill or critically injure someone while leaving the van completely usable.

If you don't have an extended licence then you are driving with no licence and no insurance. Do you have enough money to support someone for the rest of their life if you cripple them in an accident?

I find your attempt at self justification even more disturbing than your deliberate risk taking.

You really need to put your spade down.
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Consider it down, and put away!! :)
 
It's not just if you have an accident!

There's a vehicle inspection area on a motorway near us - they regularly pull vans, trailers, HGVs and the like off the road for spot testing/weighing. If this happened to be an overweight 3.5t, then you would be in line for hefty fine, removal of licence, and the ball-ache of having to get your precious 4-legged cargo home via an alternative trailer/box after they confiscate your lorry.

Not worth the risk in my view...
 
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