Meaningless phrases shouted by instructors

[sbloom]

Mary Wanless and Heather Moffett are, ultimately, teachers of the rider. That HAS to come first, but so many trainers are under pressure to help the rider make a change to the horse there and then, instead of explaining the journey and what the foundations are (the rider first and foremost) and that you can't make true progress until you're aligned and in balance in each pace.

 

[SEL]

When I was having my biomechanics lessons my instructor and I had a phrase "punch yourself in the stomach". Anyone listening in would have thought we were bonkers but it was our code that I was hollowing my back. At a standstill in front of the mirrors the non-hollowed back position made me feel like I'd been punched in the stomach - it stuck.

I am totally guilty of shouting sit up at someone about to get splatted! Also been known to shout don't fall off - which I'm pretty sure they were trying very hard to do

 

[Mule]

Thats how I read it too.

That their was no deeper discussion on the how and the why. I'd struggle in a lesson that was 100% instructions being shouted at me.

My instructor is brilliant and always stops to explain the point of the next exercise, how to ride it and what to do if it doesn't happen.

I need to know all of that. if I don't know the reason for doing something and what it will achieve then it doesnt mean anything to me.

 

[oldie48]

Interesting thread but am I the only person who just says, "sorry I don't know what you mean?"

 

[teddypops]

Interesting thread but am I the only person who just says, "sorry I don't know what you mean?"

I would ask if I didn’t know what was meant too.

 

[ester]

Mary Wanless and Heather Moffett are, ultimately, teachers of the rider. That HAS to come first, but so many trainers are under pressure to help the rider make a change to the horse there and then, instead of explaining the journey and what the foundations are (the rider first and foremost) and that you can't make true progress until you're aligned and in balance in each pace.

I spent too long being taught to do the latter, I don't think they were bad instructors but in hindsight more concentration on me would probably have helped! Most notably I'd somehow managed to skip the importance of the outside rein. In F's later years I was lucky to have access to a FBHS who I learnt masses from, and who immediately picked up how much I was inadvertently blocking the movement- that was pretty revolutionary on a 'lazy' pony ?.

I can be prone to being an otherthinker - I spent a long time practicing canter aids on a chair holding a leather camera strap for reins but that didn't actually help

 

[Trinket12]

I’ve been riding with my coach now for 5 years and for the most part get the shorthand. Our arena is pretty hard and frozen at the moment, so yesterdays lesson was mainly walk with a tiny bit of trot. So we did a lot of shoulder in and haunches in at walk.

My coach was shouting “more left leg” or “less bend” which I can imagine would sound a little nonsensical, then afterwards she takes the time to show me by drawing “hooves” in the sand and giving a visual of what the feet should be doing.

I have also had “will you just ride please!” Shouted at me, which again sounds useless but I know it’s because I’m not doing anything useful and have to sort my sh*t out! Though I don’t get it said to me very often anymore ?

Having said that, I’ve seen my coach teach newer riders and how she explains an exercise is different to how she corrects myself or other clients that have ridden with her for a long time.

Also, if I’m not a 100% clear on what she is saying to me, I ask. She’ll explain in more detail and I’ll try again usually with a little more success!

As an instructor myself I have to try different approaches with my kids (I teach therapeutic riding) for example, saying heels down doesn’t work, but if I shout toes up it does ?‍ And I’m sure anyone listening to that would be a little baffled!

 

[scats]

I’m always amazed how much emphasis a lot of coaches seem to put on fixing the horse, whilst seemingly ignoring some glaring faults from the rider that is arguably hindering the horse.
When I first started with my trainer, she pretty much ignored Millie and focused on me. It was amazing how much of a positive effect that had on my horse. Even now, if I have a schooling problem, I look to myself first.

I love the idea behind the Mary Wanlass stuff, but I just can’t visualise things that way. So although I understand her reasonings, I struggle to follow what she says and replicate it.
I’ve had to look at biomechanics in a different way to understand it.

 

[Cob Life]

Short hand phrases are used in every specialism … it’s a way of communicating quickly between people who are versed in the same specialism… when teaching riding or many other sports timing is of the essence and stopping to have a conversation is not always the most helpful of things to do.

ETA my instructor and I do have phrases that probably mean nothing to anyone else but mean something to us (“knickers to the sky“ springs to mind) as long as the communication is there between the people involved it’s irrelevant what outsiders think or understand (or don’t)

oh and you can definitely increase forward ness whilst reducing rushing.

My instructor tells me to “roll” oddly she doesn’t mean to get off and roll on the floor, she means to roll my shoulders back and tighten my core but other people think we are mad
“ Bend” also means nothing about getting the horse to bend

 

[tallyho!]

I think OP, I get where you’re coming from. However, without knowing where in the lesson (or progression of lessons) the teacher and trainee are at, it’s hard to say if it was right or wrong. I hate being shouted at, but, I appreciate a teacher has to speak loud enough so you can hear against the rustle of a coat, breath of the horse and whatever aids you’re trying to put together in your head and body. Personally, I can get lost in too much explanation whilst trying to apply the correct aids however at other times I need it.

On the other spectrum, as a child I have been at a school where a teacher (whom had swallowed a megaphone washed down with coffee and 20 marloborough reds) basically sat down and bellowed at riders what were insults and instructions about how to kick your pony harder and hit it harder still.

 

[little_critter]

See you don’t need to shout. I had lessons with a trainer who walked with you (obviously if you were cantering she would walk a smaller circle). But it meant a) she was never too far away so didn’t need to bellow at you and b) it was much easier for her to see and comment on your aids.

 

[SEL]

I love the idea behind the Mary Wanlass stuff, but I just can’t visualise things that way. So although I understand her reasonings, I struggle to follow what she says and replicate it.
I’ve had to look at biomechanics in a different way to understand it.

I was useless at understanding the books but much better with one of her instructors in person. Some of their standard teaching stuff just didn't work for me, but fortunately we could get to the same place via a different route.

 

[Auslander]

Oh and when they see the rider about time fall and they shout SIT UP!
You think ? ?‍?

Actually - that is a life-saver phrase! If someone is about to buy some land, they aren't really thinking about how best to save themselves, and a well timed bellow of "sit up", if deployed, can save them!

It's very possible that the person/people being given the instructions mentioned in the OP knew exactly what they meant - there's no way of knowing that they didn't, if the instruction was heard by a 3rd party who wasn't observing from close quarters.

 

[ycbm]

ETA my instructor and I do have phrases that probably mean nothing to anyone else but mean something to us (“knickers to the sky“ springs to mind) as long as the communication is there between the people involved it’s irrelevant what outsiders think or understand (or don’t)

I've been musing on this one. Was it her instruction for you to fold over big fences? I can really see how that would work.

If an instructor yells "head!" at me I know I'm looking down again.
.

 

[Rumtytum]

Actually - that is a life-saver phrase! If someone is about to buy some land, they aren't really thinking about how best to save themselves, and a well timed bellow of "sit up", if deployed, can save them!
.

This was one of those “Sit Up!!” moments and it worked ?

 

[Reacher]

Interesting thread but am I the only person who just says, "sorry I don't know what you mean?"

A few years ago I had a newish (to me) instructor who told me to “talk to him with the reins” but couldn’t explain (when asked) what to tell him or how to tell him it. (I changed instructors)

 

[MagicMelon]

One particularly known for being mean male instructor used to shout at me to "stop being blonde and ride properly". He had many complaints about him for various things but actually Im thick skinned and everything else he said was pretty useful usually and he fairly scared you into trying your hardest!

 

[blitznbobs]

I've been musing on this one. Was it her instruction for you to fold over big fences? I can really see how that would work.

If an instructor yells "head!" at me I know I'm looking down again.
.

No ironically it is more an instruction to tilt my pelvis forward (or is it backward) anyway tuck bum in for a half halt on a v big moving warmblood who was (she is now in the hayfield in the sky) always a bit gung ho … it was like a severe half halt without touching the front end and worked a treat (other horses ive tried it on tend to halt immediately tbh so its saved for v hot rude youngsters )

 

[Flicker]

Sorry I don't agree, any competent rider will totally understand what the phrases the OP quoted means as a matter of course

Eh? According to whose metrics? Define ‘competent’. And where does your confidence that a ‘competent rider will totally understand’ the phrases come from? Or is it just your assumption based on your own personal experience?

Assuming a level of understanding or comprehension in someone you are delivering training to is not good training practice. You will be surprised what some ‘competent’ riders will not have been taught or had explained to them. Everyone’s journey is different.

A good trainer will check that the person they are training understands the phrases used - irrespective of that person’s perceived level of ‘competence’. Otherwise they might just be shouting gobbledegook.

 

[sbloom]

No ironically it is more an instruction to tilt my pelvis forward (or is it backward)

Backward, posterior tilt, it's all about the top of the pelvis, not the seat bones (rami) , took me a while to get it into my head permanently as we focus on seatbones as riders!

 

[LeneHorse]

'Sit up' has saved the day on many occasions!
I also have no issue with my instructor saying 'talk to her down the reins' - there's nothing worse than a rider with ungiving hands set against a horse which has fixed its jaw. (Though I do know what she means when she gives this instruction).
I think a lot depends on what stage you are at with your riding and how long you have had your instructor.

 

[Marigold4]

'Sit up' has saved the day on many occasions!
I also have no issue with my instructor saying 'talk to her down the reins' - there's nothing worse than a rider with ungiving hands set against a horse which has fixed its jaw. (Though I do know what she means when she gives this instruction).
I think a lot depends on what stage you are at with your riding and how long you have had your instructor.

Did you know what she meant by "talk to her down the reins" because you'd had it previously explained to you or because you are intuitively brilliant? Me though, I would definitely need some more guidance - does it mean vibrate your fingers? Squeeze and then release the reins? Both reins at the same time? Randomly? In response to the horse fixing it's jaw or doing something else?

 

[Gloi]

Interesting thread but am I the only person who just says, "sorry I don't know what you mean?"

I was far too shy to do that as a teenager. It was only after I'd had my own pony for a while I met someone I could discuss things with.

 

[Shilasdair]

At some point, would-be riders need to stop sitting there passively on the horse, expecting the instructor to ride by remote control.
Riders owe it to their horse to do their own active reading into the theory of equitation, the aids, the sequence of paces, the stages of a jump, etc if they are serious about learning.
And if they truly want to know what's happening underneath them, learning all about equine anatomy is a plan too.

 

[LeneHorse]

Did you know what she meant by "talk to her down the reins" because you'd had it previously explained to you or because you are intuitively brilliant? Me though, I would definitely need some more guidance - does it mean vibrate your fingers? Squeeze and then release the reins? Both reins at the same time? Randomly? In response to the horse fixing it's jaw or doing something else?

Intuitively brilliant!! That made me laugh. Far from it I'm afraid. I'm just an ageing old biddy who gets the occasionally lesson on my elderly Cob.
Its a bit trial and error sometimes and all I want is my horse to go forward and accept the contact without arguing.
All I know is that by the end of a lesson the horse is going much better than she was when we started so my instructor must be doing something right.

 

[IrishMilo]

I’m always amazed how much emphasis a lot of coaches seem to put on fixing the horse, whilst seemingly ignoring some glaring faults from the rider that is arguably hindering the horse

Same here. I want to get more correct, more accurate as a rider in each of my lessons, because then I can ride every horse better, and would rather have the focus on that than anything else tbh.

 

[McFluff]

I did once have a coach yell out a series of instructions that went from ‘pull her up’ to ‘sit up’ to a rather resigned ‘just stay on … please’.
All were totally useless, but they did help to make me laugh as I was being p****d off with across a field (on a chestnut mare who I usually adored!).

 

[Roxylola]

No no no no! Don't fall off!
To be fair, I was sitting part way up Charlie's neck having cone to an abrupt halt mid jump (literally). It was neither meaningful nor especially helpful but it was utterly heartfelt

 

[SOS]

Everyone learns differently and this is true for riding lessons too and is why finding the right instructors can be extremely difficult.

I personally learn from being told in detail HOW to do something then slowly being weaned off instruction. This seems to ring true to me from riding to revision. My degree resulted in me being taught how in a lecture and then basically rewriting and rewriting notes, each time only rewriting the bits I hadn’t remebered until pre exam I had a post-it note of random words. These shouted out to anyone else in the exam hall may of been familiar but their meaning is personal to me. This is true to everything is humans do in life, it’s why people can have the same name. Your ‘Emma’ is different to my ‘Emma’. So when my riding instructor shouts ‘more hand/leg/bend’ etc. I know what the meaning is to both of us.

On a slightly different note I think even with instructors who are not to your teaching style or completely off the mark you can always learn something. Even if it’s what NOT to do or doesn’t work for you and your horse. I always try and whole heartedly commit to a lesson and instruction to get the most out of it, provided it doesn’t put my horse at risk. The only times I have failed to do that is when the instruction isn’t explained clearly enough and when prompted for more detail it can’t be. Often by people who are such good riders that teaching less capable riders doesn’t come naturally to them.

So OP I would take from this that in a lesson for yourself you would want more in depth instruction. Reflection is a good thing.

 

[moosea]

Oh and when they see the rider about time fall and they shout SIT UP!
You think ? ?‍?

Usually this is not an instruction ... more the instructor pleading that you do not to fall off again!!!