Measuring in?

Ambers Echo

Ambers Echo

Still wittering on
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My friend's daughter is on a 15.1. There is no way she is a 14.2. Horse bred, 2 horse parents.... But they keep being told they could 'get that measured in as a 148'. She's not interested but is that really possible? And if so, itn't that just another word for 'cheating'.

There is FB post asking for a 14.2-15.1 for Pony Prem. In response to 'er 15.1 is not a pony' the writer claims '148s are VERY full up, I know what I'm doing'. Leaves a very sour taste. If 15'1s really can compete as 148s, why is that allowed? Seems such an easy thing to prevent.
 
It depends if they measure to the last mane hair or top of wither. The last hair will always being their height down.
 
Had the horse been measured at 15.1? My previous RoR event horse was advertised as 16.1. Measured in at 15.3 with no hassle. He’d never been measured the 16.1 was a guess. Edited to add that was measured twice aged 7 and 8 to get his life height cert at 15.3 using the two nearest measurers.

There was a period of horses being driven the length of the country to get measured in. Think it is scrutinised much more closely nowadays.
 
One of the horses I owned, had been doing affiliated show jumping as a 14.2HH with a previous owner, despite most definitely being over that height by at least an inch. I'm not sure how they got him under the bar, though I have my suspicions.

I've always raised an eyebrow at adverts for show jumping ponies described as 'full up' ever since.
 
The FEI has really clamped down on measuring now and it can only be done once a year at one location in order to get a life height certificate.

I remember a lot of hooha about one pony who measure in with one vet and sold for £60k then got picked up at an event and measured out.

There is an element of leeway by one or two cm but on whole it has become a lot stricter. There is a fair bit you can do too shrink them a little - no shoes, out of work, standing relaxed etc

Not sure about showing but the rule has always been for ponies that a good biggun will beat a good small one. Do have always looked for full up to height in the category.
 
humblepie said:
Had the horse been measured at 15.1? My previous RoR event horse was advertised as 16.1. Measured in at 15.3 with no hassle. He’d never been measured the 16.1 was a guess. Edited to add that was measured twice aged 7 and 8 to get his life height cert at 15.3 using the two nearest measurers.
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Probably the difference here is that if he was sold as an event horse it would be advantageous if he seemed bigger as most adult eventers want 16hh plus, so it was probably a deliberately generous guess. I've been to see several advertised at 16.1 that are really 15.something. Whereas for the restricted showing classes people would want a horse to measure less than their actual height.
 
Abacus said:
Probably the difference here is that if he was sold as an event horse it would be advantageous if he seemed bigger as most adult eventers want 16hh plus, so it was probably a deliberately generous guess. I've been to see several advertised at 16.1 that are really 15.something. Whereas for the restricted showing classes people would want a horse to measure less than their actual height.
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Bless him he was sold for showing or dressage as although he’d won BE it wasn’t really his thing but yes agree with you re eventing. He did look tall as very fine and quite narrow 😀 and I had no idea he’d be a show hack when I bought him so height made no odds.
 
Someone not a million miles away from me very nearly went to prison for doing a self trim (and other dubious things) to bring spoilt brat child's pony down to the class that it had no right being in anyway. He almost crippled the poor horse and was reported. No idea who reported him but would love to shake their hand. :mad:
 
As said above, many (most) people over estimate the height of their horses and ponies, so a 15.1 might well measure 148.
The FEI rules were updated recently and ponies are deemed to be 148 if they measure under 148.9 without shoes and 149.9 with shoes.
Presenting the pony calm and relaxed makes a big difference.
 
AnShanDan said:
As said above, many (most) people over estimate the height of their horses and ponies, so a 15.1 might well measure 148.
The FEI rules were updated recently and ponies are deemed to be 148 if they measure under 148.9 without shoes and 149.9 with shoes.
Presenting the pony calm and relaxed makes a big difference.
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I expect we've all driven miles to view horses which are well under the advertised height on arrival
 
I appreciate all that is true but my friend's horse is NOT 14.2. Nothing like. Dolly and Katie regularly rode with this kid on her horse as we were on the same yatd and competed together. Dolly was 14.1 and this horse was definitely a hand bigger. Or more.

Perhaps the people saying it would measure in are out of date. There was lots of advice on offer re who to go to who can 'get it to measure in'. There was a perfectly clear message that the horse was overheight but could be 'shrunk' by someone with enough know-how. And I got vibes of that type off the FB ad too. She didnt say a 15.1 was worth viewing in case it s height was being over-estimated. She said a 15.1 was worth viewing because 14.2 ponies are VERY full -up. Her capitals. I take that to mean that are not 14.2 at all.
 
I know nothing about measuring ponies, Its never been of any importance to me. I did once have a conversation with a dealer of competition type ponies and she was saying about getting them measured, commented "this will be 14.2 by the time id finished with it ;) )
I naively asked how on earth she planned that- thinking it was a joke and she replied I wouldn't want to know but they'd manage somehow :rolleyes: Made me feel a bit ick
 
AnShanDan said:
As said above, many (most) people over estimate the height of their horses and ponies, so a 15.1 might well measure 148.
The FEI rules were updated recently and ponies are deemed to be 148 if they measure under 148.9 without shoes and 149.9 with shoes.
Presenting the pony calm and relaxed makes a big difference.
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Wow, that's very generous compared with showing, where under jmb rules they have to be measured without shoes and feet properly presented. The measurer can and will pick up feet to check they are properly trimmed and not over trimmed or worse. They can and do refuse a measurement if the animal is not properly presented.

B looks bigger than she measures, she carries herself so rides bigger too. A friend insisted she was over height for breed standard, max height is 14hh and is measured at 142.2, they are not rounded up to 143.
B measured at 141.5 for her life height cert. No mane or wither hair trimmed, feet tidied after shoes removed.
No breaking or bending of rules whatsoever.
 
Ambers Echo said:
I appreciate all that is true but my friend's horse is NOT 14.2. Nothing like. Dolly and Katie regularly rode with this kid on her horse as we were on the same yatd and competed together. Dolly was 14.1 and this horse was definitely a hand bigger. Or more.

Perhaps the people saying it would measure in are out of date. There was lots of advice on offer re who to go to who can 'get it to measure in'. There was a perfectly clear message that the horse was overheight but could be 'shrunk' by someone with enough know-how. And I got vibes of that type off the FB ad too. She didnt say a 15.1 was worth viewing in case it s height was being over-estimated. She said a 15.1 was worth viewing because 14.2 ponies are VERY full -up. Her capitals. I take that to mean that are not 14.2 at all.
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Isn't there a thread on here somewhere about the vile things people resort to to get the pony under the stick? Unbelievable it still goes on ( and I'm sure it does). You're right, it's very clearly cheating.
 
Measuring horses is always going to be difficult. It depends on the horse, set up of the yard it’s measured at, ability to stand up correctly ….and the way the wind is blowing on the day. 😀 if you look at working hunters in everything from 12 hands upwards there will be some the correct height out for a nice day and others with a ‘full up’ height certificate so they can jump a smaller height. The difference in height between for example 148 and 153 is particularly noticeable. Many of those in the 148 class are considerably ‘up to height’ and wouldn’t look small in the next height sections!
 
I can remember standing next to a 14.2 show jumping pony. "Blimey" we thought, "it must have been measured as a 2 year old."

Yes, there were certainly abuses in the past, witholding water, trimming the feet right down, all sorts of things I don't know about it.
But I understand that it has been tightened up a lot recently, good thing too. I remember that case where the pony was sold as a certain height for a lot of money and then subsequently measured out.

But I can well imagine the difference appearance between a pony more or less out of the field, lean, unfit, unshod in the spring and having it measured. And then seeing it 3 months later, fit, shod, muscled and competing regularly.
 
An unfit pony in lean condition with its hooves trimmed to the quick.
You can get a ‘measuring in trim’ done. But you can’t then ride for ages as it can’t walk on its raw hooves.
 
I'm going to get a stick one day and measure all the horses on the yard I doubt many are right, mine was measured at vetting as a 9yo as 13.2 and her field mate is at least a hand a half bigger owner swears she is only 14.1!
 
Not forgetting the dealer's yard with a strip of concrete for measuring - only the dealer knows which end to use!

That was from a book written in the 1930s so horse buying and selling has never changed.
 
There’s only a few FEI measures in the uk per year. There were definitely some big ponies there when we were, but then I was with a 142cm, (140JMB as they gave him more time) advertised as 14.2…!
 
Many years ago - 40 maybe - I took some students to a riding school for their enrichment sessions. They had a very elderly horse there that belonged, I think, to the owner. I was told it had jumped for Britain in pony internationals. Somewhat surprised, I said it must be at least 15hh. I was then shown it's party trick - a string was held up in front of him, he was lead towards it and he literally bent his knees to get under without it touching his back! I don't know to this day if they were having me on....
 
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