Meat colts - the true cost of rescuing them (a diary)

Fides said:
Then why make them? You've put a bit of a downer on what has been a lovely couple of days. What with that and being told he'd have been better going for meat :(

Eta - it is another thread. I started this thread as a diary to warn people of the implications. If it gets hijacked with all stuff not relevant to a meat colt good points could be missed. By all means add helpful suggestions but I don't see how your comments add any real value to the thread. It's just negativity...
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Because it's an open forum and I had something to contribute that I felt was related to the overarching topic. As said, nothing personal and clearly the pony is lucky to have a such nice home himself, so I wouldn't let someone else's wider observations get you down! Sorry you felt somewhat dejected.

It's all a bit more related than some have outlined and I stand by the supply and demand point. Let's not forget that while many of us here know the facts, others with good intentions but perhaps not the knowledge of the crisis - those exact ones you intend to reach - may be reading this and the overall situation, which remains important, is not as small or black-and-white as they may think. It's those I'm more thinking of. As said, 'rescue' is often not used in such brilliant ways these days.
 
MissChaos said:
! Sorry you felt somewhat dejected.
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It's all a bit more related than some have outlined and I stand by the supply and demand point.
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It's OK - it's emotive ;)

The whole supply and demand thing is irrelevant though. These are youngsters that are destined for meat, probably to be shipped to the continent, maybe just to the pedigree factory or a zoo. The demand is there regardless of is some are bought by members of the public. The horses in this case are quite well put together sorts, not from random matings, and the fillies sell for a reasonable amount - it's just the colts are more expensive to get to a sellable point so have no value to them. And being horrible people they just dispose of them.

I've since found out there is quite a well known and reputable cob dealer who buys from these people. One thing to bear in mind if going to a dealer I guess is 'are they all fillies?'. If they are, chances are they have come from somewhere like this :(

Eta - missChaos, I know what you mean about 'rescue'. There is a 'charity' I know that has ever increasing numbers of horses, ever decreasing funds and never rehomes anything. The horses get really poor through winter and this year haven't yet recovered fully. I have a feeling that next winter the RSPCA may be getting involved...
 
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Fides said:
This is actually what I am trying to make people aware of - hence the title and listing those costs. You might be hard hearted enough to have let them go for meat, but regardless of the implications, me (and 57 others) couldn't.

There are some that have not gone to meat - it's not increasing the breeding as if no one had taken them they would have gone for meat anyway.

The only way to stop it is to raise awareness which is what I am trying to do with this thread. I am also helping the press put together an article about it to raise awareness and I have put an offer of support out, via the vets and an animal charity who has been involved throughout, that I can offer support for anyone struggling who didn't realise what they were taking on. I've gone into this 'eyes wide open' as I have had a colt before and know the work involved. Just because someone doesn't have the knowledge or experience to deal with it shouldn't earn them condemnation, they aren't horrible people - we should be offering our support.

Education is the only way to stop it - sneering at people isn't really very nice and doesn't help anyone. You may not have intended it to come across that way but it was quite a hmmm blunt post. And saying you are in the 'group' that thinks they should die - you are the only person to voice that opinion on this thread so far.

Maybe instead of asking if people understand what the implications are, actually post what they are in a helpful and constructive way. I'm afraid the lac k of punctuation in your post made it very difficult to read and understand.

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As far as the passport goes - the colt has had the passport process started by the vet and I am finishing it online. It costs £24 ish including the vets time
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25 years ago I helped as a welfare worker and all I hear about now is the 2000 unregistered horses that this man has in the M4 corridor and in Wales. I agree you need to make people aware of what they are taking but they really do not understand the commitment horse owners have 365 days of the year. One point that in Europe any properly trained person can insert microchips and the cost is 10 Euros. The chips can be purchased for £2-3. At the moment there is no central database to record chips and no record of horses moved into the UK from the rest of Europe as you are aware DEFRA closed the database down and the EU has told them they have to have a database which is what the PIOs have been telling them since the closer was rumoured. All breeders should be licensed and in some coutries horse owners have to have been on a course on horse welfare. It is interesting to see the rules in Demark regarding the size of paddocks and stables. The thread shows we are all individuals who keep horses with great love of our horses my oldest is only 17 and i foaled her myself.
 
Sywell - the trade abroad is awful. As harsh as it sounds, it's just a shame there aren't more slaughterhouses in the UK so at least they would be spared the 2-3 days of travel :( I don't understand why they can't export them ready slaughtered :(
 
What a luck chap! I have done this minus the scamming, colt had mites, ring worm and a severe worm burden when I had him though he was believed 4 months old when I rescued him. In total he cost me just over £1000 to get right not including castration. That was all treatments for ringworm, worms and mites, 2 sets of flu and tetnus, farrier fees, passoprt and micro chip, any rugs, hard feed, hay, bedding and the random lameness he had when I first had him. I had the vets out every week to him for months to get him right and as soon as he was he was sold on to a fantastic lady for way less than what I paid to get him healthy.

Rescuing horses is very expensive. Well done to you for doing it! :)
 
He's been here two and a half days and has already started filling out!

Chilling in the back garden :) he can see the horses in the field but the fence is chicken wired with a strip of electric over the top so they can't touch just yet

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he is absolutely gorgeous! and so lucky to have found someone like you. i'm definitely going to keep checking in for updates!
 
I believe that if horses are not chipped and passported by 6 month they can't go for meat? I think this may be new regulation in the last few years. Has anyone heard this before? Therefore if they weren't passported they wouldn't have been able to send them for meat anyway (legally!)
 
lizness said:
I believe that if horses are not chipped and passported by 6 month they can't go for meat? I think this may be new regulation in the last few years. Has anyone heard this before? Therefore if they weren't passported they wouldn't have been able to send them for meat anyway (legally!)
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I know they can be passported and chipped before the auction - I didn't realise it had to be before 6 months old though. Will look into it a bit more.

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He's a little monster and is quite handy with his back legs. To the point I am having to discipline him rather than ignoring it. I know I am expecting a lot from him very quickly but I do need to treat him - which he is not keen on... I'm managing his back end by standing by his shoulder and holding into the headcollar , whilst using the other hand to sponge his belly and bum. And when he tries to turn his bum I've been 'grrr'ing at him and pulling his front end towards me.

So far, touch wood, I haven't been kicked again.

Eta - he is quick with his back legs but very cuddly despite this :)
 
Yes, see the link here http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/glos/bus1item.cgi?file=*BADV624-1001.txt 'Can I keep a horse without a passport' section. I used to work in a vets and there would be some very big apparently 6 month old foals when it came to passporting! I assume it is for the drugs front I don't know what would happen if a foal received bute before passporting, I suppose honesty would be expected when it came to getting passport. In cattle it is 27 days after birth (but it is expected for them to go into food I suppose) if they are not done by then then they cannot either(go into food) So in theory if these were over 6 month and not passported they are rather stuck! £50 is in fact a good price when the other alternative would be to get the knackerman out to dispose of them.

Sorry to go off topic, he looks lovely and I hope you do well with him. Just interesting sometimes for legal implications. They could also get done for not passporting (in theory) I don't know if there has been any histroy of his actually happening?
 
That's interesting to know Lizness. I guess at 15 months mine wouldn't have been able to go for meat. He would still have been able to go for dog food or the zoo though :(

I do hope by the papers getting involved that they do get 'done' for it...
 
Fides said:
The thread isn't about that, it is about meat colts. Charities rehoming horses properly will vet the homes and make sure they know what they are taking on. Meat colts will go to anyone... And quite often people do not have a clue what they are taking on. That is why I started the thread. Having tried (and failed) to rehome from a charity I don't have that option. I have my own yard, two other delightful horses but for some reason my home wasn't good enough - something to do with refusing to replace barbed wire with post and rail. I had 1m55 3 strand mains electric running alongside but this wasn't good enough 'in the event of an unexpected power cut'. They also wanted a donation of £450.

Ponies can be picked up for peanuts now adays. There is a lovely 6yo backed sec D advertised near me for only £350. Plus a lot of the horses in rescues are companions only - it's a very very expensive pet and not everyone needs a companion

Anyway charity rehomes are a whole other thread in themselves - please don't let this deteriorate into a 'by taking on meat colts you are denying a 'true' rescue a home'.

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I've discovered again today he is a bit handy with his back feet. After him catching me yesterday I shouted at him when he tried it on today and sent him off. He came back to me doing the foaly teeth clack thing and wanted a scritch - which was the thing I was doing when he tried to flaming boot me. Horses...
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I do find this post quite sad. It makes it sound as if you are being negative about having to pay £450 for a horse from a charity. They need that money desperately in order to continue what they are doing, and I certainly wouldn't like the idea of people being put off by the thought they can go and buy a cheap meat colt as opposed to forking out for a neglected horse at a charity.
 
Moomin1 said:
I do find this post quite sad. It makes it sound as if you are being negative about having to pay £450 for a horse from a charity. They need that money desperately in order to continue what they are doing, and I certainly wouldn't like the idea of people being put off by the thought they can go and buy a cheap meat colt as opposed to forking out for a neglected horse at a charity.
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I do agree with you, but having attempted to rehome from a charity a few years ago and being told by their rehoming officer (who didn't visit) that I wasn't suitable I'm not convinced they are as accessible as they could be. I had a newly fenced field behind my house (electric and wooden posts), with sectionable paddocks and a shelter. I've owned horses for over 20 years and consider myself reasonably competent. The reason given? I was looking for a companion/LR pony and they considered my horse to be incompatible as he wasn't also a pony.

I really wanted to do 'the right thing' and rehome, but in the end I bought a pony.
 
Well I bought a colt foal from a traveler friend I know for £200, told he was roughly 6 months old, still suckling his mum, we think he was more like 3/4 months old and he'd never been handled in his life, we were told he's part clysdale X welsh, well his mum was roughtly 13hh a little piebald and carrying another foal, which I didn't realize at the time and yes he would have gone for meat as a colt is of no value, the £200 turned into over a £1000 when I had him gelded as he had a retained testicle, he's a character, lovable, very headshy, doesn't like strangers has taken 3 years to get were he is. In my will he's to be pts as he wouldn't cope out of his comfort zone. We cann't save every foal or horse from slaughter and these traveler people are making a roaring trade, because we care and honestly they don't just like they don't give a fig about their dogs and there hangs another story.
 
I take it back - he's not a monster. He only learned to lead yesterday and today my OH took him to the field (garden) and he was as quiet as a lamb! I was very proud of him and my OH too - he's still very novicy with handling them but he did himself proud today!

Ladyinred - he is actually seeming bigger this past day! When he is better with his legs I'm going to measure the pastern and do the guess thing...

Red - thanks for following him :) that makes me feel all warm and gooey. Or that might be the Pimms ;)

To those who commented on my £450 comment - I'm not being negative about giving a donation, I'm just saying that someone comparing £450 with lots of checks may be swayed by a 'cheap' £50 meat colt. Also technically the ones in a charity already have secure futures too.

I have been refused a horse from a charity for reasons stated before. I have also been refused a dog due to working full time - even though I come home to let the dogs out each lunch time.

Nearly forgot - put Oreo out and he freaked at the other two next door due to them looking like ghosts! Fly rugs...

I'm currently sat in my lounge, looking at a beautiful pink sunset and Oreo grazing. Sadly I can't get a picture that does it justice :(
 
My hat is off to you fides for taking on Oreo☺ it's not an easy option but I'm sure you will cope and will have a lovely pony at the end.
Some rescues re homing criteria can be overly stringent. Though I understand why they feel the need to be so strict.
I work closely with a rescue we are their overflow kennels. And though they are happy for me to care for their dogs they do not deem me suitable to re home lol. And my dogs go almost everywhere with me
 
I agree that the rescue charities can be their own worst enemies. Someone I know was refused a couple of feral cats for her yard (about 800 yards from a quiet road) as the horses drinking water was uncovered!
 
Good to hear this guy has a kind home and a bright future.

Just wanted to say that as far as I am aware, anyone can purchase microchips and the tool to put them in with though they may have to show the suppliers that they have a legitimate purpose for them. It is perfectly legal for an owner to chip their own cats and dogs, for example, but it is NOT legal for anyone to microchip horses which are special case and to do that you need to be qualified (e.g. a vet).

Also, if you are compiling an accurate account of your costs of this project, you ought to be factoring in your time. There is a thing the economists call "opportunity cost". That is the value of the time you spend on a project that you could profitably be spending elsewhere and getting paid. Presumably that ought at least to be the minimum wage! I wonder what factoring that expense in will do to your totals? Yes, I know what the OP is doing is for love, but that is still another cost that ought to be factored in if you are serious about arriving at realistic figures at the end of the day. Sorry to be the hard nosed farmer but time is money!
 
I'm another the charities refused. I almost went and bought a cheapo pony, because I was absolutely desperate for a friend for Ned, but thankfully a friends pony needed to move for a while, so I took him instead.
I keep checking back here, loving the photos and updates :D
 
Just to say good on you - I've never been involved with meat ponies before until going to see the Fosse Park horses. (Unfortunately he won't sell any of his poor ponies, the RSPCA, Council, Police and Trading Standards all turn a blind eye.)

More photos please and don't be put off by the doubters !
 
lizness said:
I believe that if horses are not chipped and passported by 6 month they can't go for meat? I think this may be new regulation in the last few years. Has anyone heard this before? Therefore if they weren't passported they wouldn't have been able to send them for meat anyway (legally!)
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The rules say a horse as to be passported and chipped in the year of birth or six months after birth whichever is later. Passport issuers are required to sign off Section IX if it is over the limit and report to Trading Standards.
 
No exciting pictures yet, just some grotty ones :(

He's twigged now that when he has the lead rope attached he is to walk at the side of you. He also knows that "bed-bed" means playtime on the yard is over and he walks straight into his stable (always handy for if they duck out of a headcollar).

His little scabby pink nose has been smothered in Nivea sensitive 4 times a day and is now smooth as a baby's bum!

The little angel stood brilliantly while I pulled all of these out of his mane :)

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Grotty picture alert - tape worm!!































He is now shedding his worm burden and his round belly is deflating

YUK!

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He's no longer a little shrinking violet hanging at the back of the stable

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It might have been something to do with finding his sweet spot

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He now comes to the gate when you call his name :)

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I think he wishes he was a little taller so he could reach the hanging baskets

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And the best news of the day is that I can now pick his front feet up - absolute necessity as he needs to see the farrier desperately! Back feets hmm yeah, we'll save that for another day...

He's learning so quickly. I don't do much with him, just 15 minutes at a time 3 times a day. Once he is clear of nasties he can go out and be a youngster for a bit and bond with the other two :)

Eta - note to self - must clear pallets away!
 
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