Medial collateral ligament injury

[Kind horse lover]

Hello, I bought my first horse, a 7 year old 16.3hh ID x cob in July 2021. He was unfit and green, so we had him professionally schooled, hacked and exercised 3-4 times a week maximum. He went lame in both front feet May 2022, compounded by poor farriery by a so called "master farrier" (long toes, under run heals) . He had nerve blocks in feet confirming lameness in feet, xrays which showed arthritis in the coffin bone joints and sidebones, and confirmation of poor foot angle. He had a couple of months off in the paddock, then an MRI which confirmed inflamation around coffin bone joints, navicular bursae, and also picked up enlarged medial collateral ligament of the coffin bone joint on left fore leg, where the original lameness appeared. Vet advised 3 D frog support to support the heal which it was growing out with new farrier. I opted for platelet rich therapy in the collateral ligament over steroids. He had another 6 weeks paddock rest, was assessed and considered sound, and in September 2022 started back work in walk, went lame quickly. Next stop steroids in the coffin bone joint of both front feet. After a week off went back into walk hacking increasing time a bit each week. Appeared sound. Continued walking and another lameness review vet signed him off sound just before Christmas. New year we started to add some trot and schoolwork, all gradual and gentle. By February he was lame again in left fore. We moved to a better yard, better farrier (interim farrier got a bit sloppy after starting off well). He went on paddock rest for 3 months then had a repeat MRI at Liphook on both front feet.

All the above treatment was on the advice of my vet.

Liphook did a lameness review beginning of June 2023 and he was 2/10th lame on injured side, and 1/10 lame on the other and the same on a straight line, so not bad. Repeat MRI results were not good unfortunately. He had all the original problems, despite his hoof balance now being good (the attending vet said the farriery was really good), and the collateral ligament had gone from a mild injury to a severe one. He also had more inflamation in his feet. We did an Arthromid injection in his left fore coffin bone joint. He had a joint flare so is currently lame, on bute and on box rest. I changed my vet for a new one as I now know collateral ligament injuries take much longer and the steroids likely masked the ligament injury. It's also compounded by him being a heavier horse at 750 kilos.

The dealer in Ireland we bought him from advised he had been turned away for 18months because they couldn't get the staff during the pandemic, but it now looks like he was turned away due to injury as he came with arthritis and sidebones having just turned 7.

Any advice, feedback please?

 

[Birker2020]

I didn't want to read and run but I am so very sorry that things haven't worked out with your boy.
I know how that feels as I've been through the mill with mine, spending £12.5k on buying him in Oct 21, £400 on vetting (which he passed) him being lame less than a week later and £3.8k in vets bills and £2k of my own money rehabbing and getting a pro rider to start him three times, he's now off to retirement with SI and KS, hock, coffin joint and neck arthritis and possibly PSD.

I don't know in all honesty if your horse will ever come sound, I know mine won't. But just wanted to say I really feel for you being in this position.

What does your present vet feel is the prognosis for your horse?

 

[Kind horse lover]

Birker2020 Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I'm really sorry to hear that you have been through a very similar situation. It sounds that you did all you could to get your horse right.

The vet at Liphook said my boy may be able to cope with gentle walk hacking, but as it is a degenerative, chronic condition so will just get worse over time. He also passed a 5 stage vetting in Ireland then my own vet health checked him when he arrived and he was sound. He was always unbalanced, which we put down to him being green, but it now looks like he was compensating for pain. I also know now that the dealer starting a 3/4 year old with hunting is not the best thing as irish drafts can continue to mature up until 8.

My new vet isn't hopeful - I will get her to review him in a few weeks when he has recovered from the joint flare and will be guided by her judgement. My husband bought him so I need to get his approval regarding decisions, but my feeling is he needs to be retired. I'm sure he will be quite happy turned out with a herd and he can always have bute if he needs it.

Do you think your seller knew your horse was injured?

 

[Birker2020]

Do you think your seller knew your horse was injured?

100%. Some of the things said to me at the viewing made sense to me afterwards.

When I said over the phone that I wanted to knock her down £2.5k before I'd even gone for a viewing she said she'd be happy if she knew he was going to a five star home as 'they loved him and were heartbroken' but never once did she ask to view where he was going, ask for photos or even ask me anything about the kind of home I could offer.

Her daughter couldn't be at the viewing or ride him because 'she was heartbroken'. Probably scared stupid if he threw her in the way he threw me.

He was on electrolytes in the winter. It wasn't till later I thought that was strange. I suspect he may have PSSM and the electrolytes help.

The fact he wore about 10 saddle cloths under his saddle when we viewed him and he pulled faces to be tacked up. At the time the saddle belonged to the pro rider who they'd hired for the viewing and I assumed it didn't fit particuarly well hence the saddlecloths, one saddle for all type of scenario. The face pulling I assumed was due to rough handling in the past, not all horses that are girthy are ulcer or KS cases. He was a previous competition horse with £350 BS, all his qualifying double clears and an extensive BE record so I felt he'd be a bit of a schoolmaster type which she said he would be.

I felt I asked the relevant questions and felt if I'd missed anything that was what the vetting was for. To mop up my mistakes.

My own vets have confirmed that they feel that he should never have passed his vetting.

This is the 7th horse I've owned in 4 decades and the 1st horse and this one were both from private homes and both unsuitable, the ones from the dealers I bought from were never a problem. And they say dealers have bad reputations!

I hope you can retire your horse. X

 

[Kind horse lover]

100%. Some of the things said to me at the viewing made sense to me afterwards.

When I said over the phone that I wanted to knock her down £2.5k before I'd even gone for a viewing she said she'd be happy if she knew he was going to a five star home as 'they loved him and were heartbroken' but never once did she ask to view where he was going, ask for photos or even ask me anything about the kind of home I could offer.

Her daughter couldn't be at the viewing or ride him because 'she was heartbroken'. Probably scared stupid if he threw her in the way he threw me.

He was on electrolytes in the winter. It wasn't till later I thought that was strange. I suspect he may have PSSM and the electrolytes help.

The fact he wore about 10 saddle cloths under his saddle when we viewed him and he pulled faces to be tacked up. At the time the saddle belonged to the pro rider who they'd hired for the viewing and I assumed it didn't fit particuarly well hence the saddlecloths, one saddle for all type of scenario. The face pulling I assumed was due to rough handling in the past, not all horses that are girthy are ulcer or KS cases. He was a previous competition horse with £350 BS, all his qualifying double clears and an extensive BE record so I felt he'd be a bit of a schoolmaster type which she said he would be.

I felt I asked the relevant questions and felt if I'd missed anything that was what the vetting was for. To mop up my mistakes.

My own vets have confirmed that they feel that he should never have passed his vetting.

This is the 7th horse I've owned in 4 decades and the 1st horse and this one were both from private homes and both unsuitable, the ones from the dealers I bought from were never a problem. And they say dealers have bad reputations!

I hope you can retire your horse. X

Oh my goodness, I can’t believe how dishonest some people are! It sounds like you asked all the right questions, and the horse passed the vetting and you trusted your vets. i don’t know if you had done anything different whether you would have been able to pick up that something was wrong with your horse.

I’m glad that you had a positive experience with dealers at least; there does seem to be a bit more security going via a dealer.

I’ve asked myself could I have done anything different. I read all the online dealer reviews and on the whole they were really positive (apart from the horses being really green, which the dealer told me that herself). I had looked in the UK first but couldn’t find what we wanted as there was a shortage of horses during the pandemic. My own vet checked him when he arrived and said he was sound. My experienced instructor did not pick up any problems, only that he was unbalanced and green. My horse has taught me so much and I don’t regret having him in my life. He is the real victim.

 

[Zoeypxo]

May be worth looking at the rockley farm blogs to see if they have any horses with similar injury

 

[Zoeypxo]

A friend had a collateral ligament injury in the hoof and she turned pony away for 6 months barefoot, all ok now. I imagine a severe injury would take more like 12 months.

Im sure some people on here will have better advice

Eta sorry i missed the other pathologies along side the ligament, a real shame in such a young horse but unfortunately agree with @ycbm

 

[ycbm]

I'm an absolute barefoot rehab fan, I've done several, doing one now, and I'm really sorry to say this but at that age, in that build of horse, with that medical history I would not carry on trying to get him back into work. My feeling is that he will never stand up to it long term.

I wish I could give you more hope, sorry.
.

 

[Jellymoon]

My horses are not barefoot, they are both shod, so I have no experience of it, but I have one in a similar situation and I’ve been reading the rockly farm blog and other people’s stories and I’m seriously considering trying him barefoot. I think if you are at the last chance saloon, like we are, it’s worth a go isn’t it?

 

[Jellymoon]

I'm an absolute barefoot rehab fan, I've done several, doing one now, and I'm really sorry to say this but at that age, in that build of horse, with that medical history I would not carry on trying to get him back into work. My feeling is that he will never stand up to it long term.

I wish I could give you more hope, sorry.
.

I think the OP’s horse is only 7. Do you really think there’s no hope?

 

[ycbm]

I think the OP’s horse is only 7. Do you really think there’s no hope?

With everything she has listed, including somebody already resting him for 18 months after injury at only 4 or 5, and a big body to carry on very compromised feet, I think there is little hope he will ever resume a sound ridden career. Let's hope I'm wrong.
.

 

[Sasana Skye]

Watching this because I also have one with a similar injury. I was told the prognosis for horses returning to soundness with injuries to the collateral ligaments of the DIP joint is poor but hers was relatively low level so she had a reasonable chance.

We did various injections, 8 weeks box rest, then 8 weeks paddock rest initially which we extended. She came back sound and after a while of just short slow hacks I was later advised she could crack on as normal and start jumping, schooling etc. She got on well for about 6-8 months but then I thought she looked off again so spoke to vet who said she was fine in a straight line and on hard surfaces but 1-2/10ths lame in the arena on a circle. I turned her away for unrelated reasons in October 2021 and I’m just about to start bringing her back into work again. I am hoping she can stay sound for as long as possible just hacking.

I noticed her lameness at 4 and started treatment, she’s 9 now.

Happy to give an update on how she gets on being in work again and I have an MRI report I’m happy to share too

 

[scats]

I had a 6 year old do a collateral ligament and unfortunately he never managed to stay sound. He would go sound and we would tentatively bring him back into work but he never felt the same to me, always very tense and explosive (previously sharp but not stupid) and then he would go unsound again. I retired him fully a couple of years later.

 

[Red-1]

I had one too. He'd just had 3 years off when I was given him, after being 'off' frequently, and was sound. he did a season and a half eventing with me but was not quite right for the last half season, although sound. Then he wasn't sound.

We did a steroid, rest then rehab and sold him to a friend for £1. He only wanted one as a hack. he would stay sound as a hack but every time my friend tried to up the work more (being as he was a happy and willing eventer, it was always tempting) he would soon be not right again. Happily, the friend is wise and the horse is now 24 and still happily hacking.

I think your horse may make a quiet hack but probably no more, as he has even more issues than mine. If he were mine, I would stick a steroid in, shoes off and rest for a year and then use as a happy hack, walking only for a few months at least.

 

[Kind horse lover]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I tend to agree with ycbm I just wanted to talk to others with similar experiences. I’m already asking others for recommendations on retirement yards. His back shoes are already off but not sure how he would cope with the front ones off as he is a heavy horse but he may be fine in flat fields. I was going to leave front shoes off after MRI but was advised not to, although following being shod yesterday he is now lame in the right foot too! My vet said he needs to be sound in walk and off Bute before he’s turned out again. I’m pretty sure he has arthritis in his other joints and hock as he’s stiff and clicking.

He’s on youmove (msm, hyraulaunic acid), glucosamine, linseed, devils claw. I’ve also tried arc equine and a course of Indiba and magnetic bands. I was advised against shockwave as it can cause fractures. No idea if this stuff works at all. Considering all the problems I think 1/10th and 2/10th sound in trot on a 10 metre circle is pretty good and hope that means he’s not in too much pain and can enjoy his retirement.

 

[tda]

If I could afford it, I'd definitely look at a track retirement place such as Gawsworth Track Livery, I think it's Cheshire area or something similar

 

[ycbm]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond. I tend to agree with ycbm I just wanted to talk to others with similar experiences. I’m already asking others for recommendations on retirement yards. His back shoes are already off but not sure how he would cope with the front ones off as he is a heavy horse but he may be fine in flat fields. I was going to leave front shoes off after MRI but was advised not to, although following being shod yesterday he is now lame in the right foot too! My vet said he needs to be sound in walk and off Bute before he’s turned out again. I’m pretty sure he has arthritis in his other joints and hock as he’s stiff and clicking.

He’s on youmove (msm, hyraulaunic acid), glucosamine, linseed, devils claw. I’ve also tried arc equine and a course of Indiba and magnetic bands. I was advised against shockwave as it can cause fractures. No idea if this stuff works at all. Considering all the problems I think 1/10th and 2/10th sound in trot on a 10 metre circle is pretty good and hope that means he’s not in too much pain and can enjoy his retirement.

I didn't write what I wrote lightly I'm afraid, KHL. One of my rehabs was delivered to me instead of to a final appointment with a vet hospital. He had every treatment under the sun and was still lame, but came sound and has stayed sound for a decade and more with a barefoot rehab. But yours is a different kettle of fish altogether. He's a lucky guy to have ended up with you. I'm sorry you found yourself in this situation.
.

 

[Kind horse lover]

I didn't write what I wrote lightly I'm afraid, KHL. One of my rehabs was delivered to me instead of to a final appointment with a vet hospital. He had every treatment under the sun and was still lame, but came sound and has stayed sound for a decade and more with a barefoot rehab. But yours is a different kettle of fish altogether. He's a lucky guy to have ended up with you. I'm sorry you found yourself in this situation.
.

Thank you. It’s good to have an honest opinion. I can still go and groom him and maybe do some liberty training with him when he’s up to it. It’s not the end. He’s moving comfortably in walk he just can’t carry a rider.

 

[Kind horse lover]

If I could afford it, I'd definitely look at a track retirement place such as Gawsworth Track Livery, I think it's Cheshire area or something similar

We are in Surrey so nothing like that around here for retirement horses unfortunately but agree track systems are very good.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I think in this situation I would pull all shoes give him some time and see if he can be rehabbed into some light work, you have nothing to loose really and definitely worth a try it's not a really difficult thing I've done it a few times successfully.

One of mine has coffin joint arthritis and was medicated with steroids last June he was only about 1 tenth lame on near fore was sound after treatment.

Then a few months ago he started tripping and was toe landing so I took the shoes off his been barefoot before, he walked so much better immediately and his doing well shoes been off about 15 weeks now.

Funnily enough he fractured the pedal bone on that near fore the Christmas before last and his foot changed shape underrun heels mainly so I'm hoping taking the shoes off will improve that and not cause any soft tissue damage.

 

[Kind horse lover]

I think in this situation I would pull all shoes give him some time and see if he can be rehabbed into some light work, you have nothing to loose really and definitely worth a try it's not a really difficult thing I've done it a few times successfully.

One of mine has coffin joint arthritis and was medicated with steroids last June he was only about 1 tenth lame on near fore was sound after treatment.

Then a few months ago he started tripping and was toe landing so I took the shoes off his been barefoot before, he walked so much better immediately and his doing well shoes been off about 15 weeks now.

Funnily enough he fractured the pedal bone on that near fore the Christmas before last and his foot changed shape underrun heels mainly so I'm hoping taking the shoes off will improve that and not cause any soft tissue damage.

I hope your boy continues to improve now he is barefoot. I think a lot can be done for coffin joint arthritis now and arthromed is meant to be good and last longer than steroids. My farrier said when they are barefoot the hoof balance sorts itself out.

Unfortunately my boy’s collateral ligament is very swollen so he is unlikely to be sound again. He will go barefoot when he goes on retirement livery. His back shoes are already off.

 

[Clodagh]

He sounds to me as though he might struggle even standing in a field. Is your vet sure retirement is an option? It’s a horrible thing to deal with.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Surrey hills retirement livery? https://m.facebook.com/surreyhillslivery

 

[Kind horse lover]

Surrey hills retirement livery? https://m.facebook.com/surreyhillslivery

Thank you for the recommendation. I have found a retirement livery nearer to me which I think will suit him, similar to track system (mostly ad lib hay, reduced grass, foraging, natural shelter).

 

[Kind horse lover]

Thank you all for your support and advice. My horse has now had 6 weeks box rest and is having navicular shoes put on on 22 July. He has a daily graze on the lawn and seems comfortable on Bute. Vet will check him after his new shoes have been on a few days to see if he is ok to go to the retirement livery. I can’t risk him going backwards barefoot at the moment but that could be an option later. I’ve realised his weight and sensitivity to sugar is a major factor, so retirement livery will have very little grass, 24/7 access to hay, foraging, natural shelter to encourage movement. Initially he will be in an individual paddock until he is sound enough to go out with a small herd. New yard seems much more flexible and very knowledgeable and interested in natural horse behaviour. it’s much closer to me (less than half the distance) so I can go regularly. Fingers crossed.

 

[spottypony90]

So, so sorry to read this. Having been through similar with my old boy, I completely get it. He had tears to the DDFT in the hoof. I tried everything with him, but in the end made the very hard decision to let him go (pts) as there was no quality of life for him. He wouldn’t have wanted to do months and months of box rest and he wasn’t field sound. I hope yours is a better outcome.

 

[Kind horse lover]

So, so sorry to read this. Having been through similar with my old boy, I completely get it. He had tears to the DDFT in the hoof. I tried everything with him, but in the end made the very hard decision to let him go (pts) as there was no quality of life for him. He wouldn’t have wanted to do months and months of box rest and he wasn’t field sound. I hope yours is a better outcome.

I’m sorry, that sounds very difficult for you, and you did the right thing by your boy. I wouldn’t do long term box rest either it’s not fair on them. xx

 

[Birker2020]

I’m sorry, that sounds very difficult for you, and you did the right thing by your boy. I wouldn’t do long term box rest either it’s not fair on them. xx

Been following your post. I hope it works out for your horse at retirement. Lari looks really good at the moment (I'm not tempting fate) but his weight is holding and he seems happy enough albeit spending a fair bit of time on his own outside the herd. We visited yesterday and he was stood away from the herd in another field but was happy to follow us in there to be among them which was nice.

I love going to visit him, we are going on average 3 times a week but will probably just go once a week once we know he is settled properly.

 

[Kind horse lover]

Been following your post. I hope it works out for your horse at retirement. Lari looks really good at the moment (I'm not tempting fate) but his weight is holding and he seems happy enough albeit spending a fair bit of time on his own outside the herd. We visited yesterday and he was stood away from the herd in another field but was happy to follow us in there to be among them which was nice.

I love going to visit him, we are going on average 3 times a week but will probably just go once a week once we know he is settled properly.

That sounds really encouraging for Lari. It’s good that you love visiting him as I know with some people it’s all about the riding. He’s lucky to have you.

 

[Oldernewbie]

My horse has almost identical injuries/ issues, original medial collateral ligament injury approx 2.5 years ago, had best remedial farrier in the region everything done by the book.
Attempts to rehab her at 6 month failed she was still subtly lame on L fore. I moved her to a barefoot track livery and attempted to bring her back into gentle work after a further 7/8 months and she now copes well with that however I only ask her to do gentle hacking and walk and inhand in the school as I believe years of working on a deep soft surface was the main cause (before I owned her) plus she came to me with v long toes and under run heels which likely stressed her feet ligaments greatly.
Personally I think once they have injured a foot ligament the prospect of coming back into ‘proper’ work is very low but light gentle work with suitable management is possible.