Medical science donation?

[TheBigIrishGrey]

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone knew if horses could be donated for medical science and where they would send them to? Coco is well off this being needed just yet but I would like people to be able to use her body to learn from before I lay her to rest finally. I’ve offered my farrier her legs to use to help train new farriers and to see the inside of the hoof which you can’t do on a live horse! But if anyone wanted a whole body then it would be really interesting and nice to be able to help someone out.
I know people have given their horses to local hunts for the dogs to eat and our safari park for the lions to eat but I’d like to try and help progress our understanding of the equine anatomy and perhaps problems with it in turn helping the treatment of them in future. I don’t expect we will be the cure for cancer! But it would be nice to help people out with something to study.
Any ideas? Local vet or uni I would imagine? She’s only young but it would be nice to know in advance my plans for her so I don’t have to worry and rush when the time comes as silly as that sounds. I have OCD! Can you tell?
Thank you in advance and sorry if this sounds morbid I just care about helping other horses when my beautiful girl eventually isn’t here anymore. She has helped so many people in life I know she could still do that in death too.
Caroline and Coco xxx
Www.facebook.com/thebigirishgrey

 

[bonny]

I’m sorry to say this but that’s a very morbid thread to start, why not just enjoy your horse instead of worrying about what to do with her body one day ?

 

[andytiger]

I could never imaging feeding my horse to the lions
i’m sure if got in touch with a veterinary university they might be able to help but i think it may be they have an abundant supply ( use them once and dispose) I don’t think it’s the same as medical college we’re body is used for medical science and kept for a number of years and then returned to family
but life is short enjoy your horse worry about this when it happens

 

[SEL]

There is a poster here whose old horse went to a university - brain tumour I think. I have no idea whether they take any old horse that is sadly PTS or whether they are after the more unusual issues.

It's fine to make these kind of arrangements if PTS is planned, but many horses are euthanised in more emergency conditions (colic for instance). If that happens your vet can advise or even organise the removal.

 

[TheMule]

My previous vet used a livery's horse as a surgery training tool before he was PTS on the table for which they then footed the bill for his disposal costs.
It's very easy to get hold of legs for free from the hunt or the abattoir.

 

[ohmissbrittany]

I’m sorry to say this but that’s a very morbid thread to start, why not just enjoy your horse instead of worrying about what to do with her body one day ?

To be fair, it's good to have a plan because it's one less thing you have to Google when you're grieving. Not much different than knowing what your loved ones want really- questions are hard when you're stricken. And the question might help someone else whose horse DID just die, or is close to that time.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I’m sorry to say this but that’s a very morbid thread to start, why not just enjoy your horse instead of worrying about what to do with her body one day ?

It is always a good idea to have a plan for what you will do when the horse comes to the end of its life. Those of us with our own land, even need to have that in mind when we buy our property - there has to be enough room to get a vehicle in to remove the body from a suitable place for pts.

I remember when there was a suggestion for the local RC to invite someone from the Equine Crematorium to give a talk. That was vetoed by someone who 'just wanted to enjoy her horse now' and not think about the future - which imo, meant that when the time comes for many members to pts their horse, maybe in an emergency, won't have any idea what to do.

As soon as the euthanasia has taken effect, the body is just a shell, it is up to individual owners what they do with it but the horse won't care, if it is fed to lions, buried at home or whatever the owner chooses.

 

[bonny]

It is always a good idea to have a plan for what you will do when the horse comes to the end of its life. Those of us with our own land, even need to have that in mind when we buy our property - there has to be enough room to get a vehicle in to remove the body from a suitable place for pts.

I remember when there was a suggestion for the local RC to invite someone from the Equine Crematorium to give a talk. That was vetoed by someone who 'just wanted to enjoy her horse now' and not think about the future - which imo, meant that when the time comes for many members to pts their horse, maybe in an emergency, won't have any idea what to do.

As soon as the euthanasia has taken effect, the body is just a shell, it is up to individual owners what they do with it but the horse won't care, if it is fed to lions, buried at home or whatever the owner chooses.

So bearing in mind that she wants her horse cut up and the legs to go to her farrier and the body to help science, what do you suggest she does now to arrange it ? That was the question asked, not how to plan for an emergency ?

 

[ihatework]

So bearing in mind that she wants her horse cut up and the legs to go to her farrier and the body to help science, what do you suggest she does now to arrange it ? That was the question asked, not how to plan for an emergency ?

Well I’d suggest OP contacts their local vet school, asks if this is something they do when the time comes and find out if there are any specific requirements / process to undertake. Then the OP knows what they have to do if and when they find themselves in that situation.

 

[ester]

I'm a bit confused, does she have a particular medical condition that you think people will be interested in.

I don't think the vet schools ever have much of a problem acquiring bodies to use for teaching and have their own sources for that when they need them, not just when a particular horse has died.

 

[bonny]

I'm a bit confused, does she have a particular medical condition that you think people will be interested in.

I don't think the vet schools ever have much of a problem acquiring bodies to use for teaching and have their own sources for that when they need them, not just when a particular horse has died.

I imagine most vet schools will deal with a lot of dead horses.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Surrey Uni do take in for anatomical use, but not many and then usually if it had a chronic or similar condition.

Always best to put an end of life plan in place whatever age your equine is.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

My friend who is a vet physio often attends dissections. I would love to attend one as I would be really interested. As long as its nothing to do with eyes or teeth I would be very interested and not at all squeamish. I will ask her over the weekend and get back to you TBIG if you haven't got any solution by then.

 

[SEL]

My friend who is a vet physio often attends dissections. I would love to attend one as I would be really interested. As long as its nothing to do with eyes or teeth I would be very interested and not at all squeamish. I will ask her over the weekend and get back to you TBIG if you haven't got any solution by then.

I attended a dissection at a hunt yard. I wasn't sure how I'd be given I dropped out of biology classes at age 13 after throwing up dissecting an eye, but it was really interesting.... right up until the guts came out then the smell made me very wobbly. Respect to colic surgeons!

OP - contact your local vet school and see what they say. I'm only aware of a couple of donations and both had unusual issues and were donated live so that the students could see the issue prior to the horse being euthanised. One was a leg problem and the other turned out to be KS I think.

 

[skint1]

My mare died from Equine Atypical Myopathy, I did donate some tissue samples to a university in Belgium who are leading the research on this dreadful condition which cruelly kills so many. The vets who attended her asked us if we would, and I did as I do work closely with the scientitic community and I believe in it and in some way I wanted something positive to come from the most dreadful day to date in my journey as a horse owner.

 

[Fransurrey]

There is a poster here whose old horse went to a university - brain tumour I think. I have no idea whether they take any old horse that is sadly PTS or whether they are after the more unusual issues.

It's fine to make these kind of arrangements if PTS is planned, but many horses are euthanised in more emergency conditions (colic for instance). If that happens your vet can advise or even organise the removal.

That was me. He came to work (I work at the University of Surrey School of Veterinary Medicine) and was used in Post Mortem teaching. They need a few horses every year, as the teaching is done in groups. Our PM suite has a huge -20 freezer for storage of large animals, so he stayed there for a couple of months.

Your nearest vet school OP is Liverpool, so you need to look them up and approach whoever manages their post mortems. For Surrey, you need to have a donation form that is signed off by a vet, to state there are no signs of Containment Level 3 pathogens (such as TB). That form goes with the horse after it is pts. The transporter will take the carcass directly to the vet school, or if it's over the weekend or an emergency, they'll store in their own facility until the vet school reopens/the form is signed.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

I think you will find that any equine university teaching hospital near a racetrack will have enough casualties from the racecourse. I seem to remember someone saying that that is a good source of equine cadavers. Phillip Leverhulme attached to Liverpool University probably get theirs from Aintree.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

I attended a dissection at a hunt yard. I wasn't sure how I'd be given I dropped out of biology classes at age 13 after throwing up dissecting an eye, but it was really interesting.... right up until the guts came out then the smell made me very wobbly. Respect to colic surgeons!

OP - contact your local vet school and see what they say. I'm only aware of a couple of donations and both had unusual issues and were donated live so that the students could see the issue prior to the horse being euthanised. One was a leg problem and the other turned out to be KS I think.

Yeah I think on day one of dissection its not too bad. The Vicks makes an appearance by day two or three and is rubbed under the nose.
OP why not email him, he seems to have done a lot of research on cadavers. He would probably know. https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/equine/team/david-stack/

 

[Pearlsasinger]

So bearing in mind that she wants her horse cut up and the legs to go to her farrier and the body to help science, what do you suggest she does now to arrange it ? That was the question asked, not how to plan for an emergency ?

I was saying that we should all have a plan in place for pts whether that is in an emergency or not, then if the worst happens, we have an idea of what we want to do/have done by the people who are on scene. I would approach my vet to ask about donation to veterinary science, if that was my preferred route. I am not sure what your first post contributed to the debate, although it was in your usual combative style.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I imagine most vet schools will deal with a lot of dead horses.

But not all owners will want the vet school to use their horses after death.

 

[BeckyFlowers]

I enquired with my local zoo if they take horses for the lions and they said that although they feed horse to their lions, they don't take most horses due to drugs (eg Bute) that could have been used in their life. They only take horses from the abbatoir that are destined for human consumption.

Nothing wrong with planning for horse's death. I expect the people who complain about this sort of thing and should be "enjoying the moment" are the same people who refuse to acknowledge things like (human) organ donation "because it's morbid". Shame.

 

[bonny]

But not all owners will want the vet school to use their horses after death.

Anybody know what does happen to dead horses at vet schools ?

 

[bonny]

I enquired with my local zoo if they take horses for the lions and they said that although they feed horse to their lions, they don't take most horses due to drugs (eg Bute) that could have been used in their life. They only take horses from the abbatoir that are destined for human consumption.

Nothing wrong with planning for horse's death. I expect the people who complain about this sort of thing and should be "enjoying the moment" are the same people who refuse to acknowledge things like (human) organ donation "because it's morbid". Shame.

I assume that’s aimed at me so at what point do you suggest the planning starts ? What’s wrong with enjoying your horse whilst he’s here and then dealing with whatever happens at the end ?

 

[BeckyFlowers]

I assume that’s aimed at me so at what point do you suggest the planning starts ? What’s wrong with enjoying your horse whilst he’s here and then dealing with whatever happens at the end ?

There's nothing wrong with enjoying your horse whilst it's alive (mine still is) but there's also nothing wrong with with thinking about what to do when they die and having some sort of plan formulated. The two things aren't mutually exclusive, you can do both things. Horses are huge animals and usually need specialist disposal, unlike cats and dogs who can be taken home from the vets wrapped in a blanket and buried in the garden (or not). Plans for end of life, whether human or non-human, can be a great help for some people and their families as it is one less thing to have to think about and decide at a terribly distressing time. I personally think it's a very healthy thing to think about and plan for - especially when you're in a rational and calm frame of mind, rather than having to make quick decisions when you're really upset and grieving.

(My point about organ donation still stands).

 

[Goldenstar]

When Fatty was ill the vet uni he went into asked if they could have him to study and to do a pm after PTS as it was hard to get a live horse with his issue .
Luckily for Fatty his owner gave him to me and he’s still here .

 

[be positive]

Anybody know what does happen to dead horses at vet schools ?

They should be disposed of according to the wishes of the owner who will be paying the bills, I expect they might ask for something unusual to be left with them but for most people it is a traumatic enough time they will not really want to think about it.
The OP is, maybe prematurely, looking at her options if and when the time comes, being informed about those options can make it a little easier to make the right decision rather than, as many do, having to make a rushed choice in an emergency.

 

[milliepops]

I assume that’s aimed at me so at what point do you suggest the planning starts ? What’s wrong with enjoying your horse whilst he’s here and then dealing with whatever happens at the end ?

everyone should have a plan of some sorts. it's great if your horse lives to a ripe old age perfectly healthy and you can choose the time and method of disposal. But we should all be ready to make a quick decision in an emergency and it's less stressful all round if you've already thought through options and made a hypothetical plan IMO.
I don't think that's morbid, I think that is just being prepared. and then you can go back to living in the moment and enjoying your horse.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Anybody know what does happen to dead horses at vet schools ?

As the horses all have owners, I expect that varying arrangements are made for their disposal, according to their owners' wishes.

 

[Fransurrey]

As the horses all have owners, I expect that varying arrangements are made for their disposal, according to their owners' wishes.

Horses, like other animals, have to be incinerated as clinical waste (basically cremation) from a vet school. Anywhere with CL3 pathogen facilities is not allowed to release the carcass in any other way.

 

[bonny]

Horses, like other animals, have to be incinerated as clinical waste (basically cremation) from a vet school. Anywhere with CL3 pathogen facilities is not allowed to release the carcass in any other way.

That’s what I imagined happened, I’ve taken horses on a one way trip and no one asked what was wanted after they were dead.