Melanomas

Or maybe my question should have been how do you go about finding out if they have them internally?
Are there symptoms, would you only test if something prompted it, or if they have them externally should you be looking internally too?
 
An old and long retired vet said to me what you can see on the outside can be multiplied on the inside. How true the comment is I have no idea, but we have just put down a grey that had a fair few lumps externally and was failing to thrive through the summer on good grass. He was riddled internally.
 
I think it may be possible to do a biopsy on a lump, but ive never enquired. My horse has a melanoma on his eyelid. Hes had it for many years, its never changed shape and he has never had any others. Hes 15 now. Someone else at my yard had a grey that had melanoma, she was 30 when they put her to sleep which was not caused by the melanoma.
I think its your luck really, some lumps are harmful some arent, it all depends on the type of cells they're made up of. Its like cancer in humans in a way. I've been told that if melanomas are internal the horse will usually start failing early in life, so the older the horse the better its chances in a way. If the horse isnt grey with a melanoma, i'd start worrying.
 
You can have biopsies done, but they are far from fool proof as a section without an melanomas could have been sampled.

My boy was incredible ill and we had him internally biopsied and they came back clear. He was put down a month later and on post mortem his whole digestive tract was completely riddled with them.

There is no way you can ever know for sure. But if there are more than a couple externally you can guarantee there will be some internally.
 
I recently lost an 11yo to them. Derek Knottenbelt says if you can see them on the outside they will exist on the inside and they can be anywhere and everywhere. My horse had one on his tail that came up when he was 5-it did nothing until he was 10 when it quadrupled in size in a couple of months. It was treated with cimetidine and then cisplatin. He came in one night sort of colicky but not quite-was having trouble passing dung. He was still having chemo at this point, vet came out and gave him pain relief and he was OK-vet thought it was due to discomfort from the chemo. About a week later he came in with his rectum badly swollen and again unable to pass dung. More bute on top of what he was having and a scan next day showed up 2 large ones and many small ones just on the inside of his rectum. He was dosed up to the eyeballs with bute, made a fuss of for a few days and then I had him PTS.
There's not much you can do even if you knew they were there-if you are concerned then email Derek Knottenbelt at Liverpool University, he's the only one doing any sort of research in the UK.
 
rachaelr said:
I think it may be possible to do a biopsy on a lump, but ive never enquired. My horse has a melanoma on his eyelid. Hes had it for many years, its never changed shape and he has never had any others. Hes 15 now. Someone else at my yard had a grey that had melanoma, she was 30 when they put her to sleep which was not caused by the melanoma.
I think its your luck really, some lumps are harmful some arent, it all depends on the type of cells they're made up of. Its like cancer in humans in a way. I've been told that if melanomas are internal the horse will usually start failing early in life, so the older the horse the better its chances in a way. If the horse isnt grey with a melanoma, i'd start worrying.
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Not quite true I'm afraid. Melanomas do rarely cause a horse to loose a life, but my boy was 17 when he died. His first lumps appeared under his tail at age 10. They developed very slowly and at age 16 he looked a million dollars. That winter he lost weight and then in the spring developed chronic diarrhoea and he was finally put down in the July. The final months they really multiplied. You can never predict when and if this will happen. The only thing predictable is that they are unpredictable.
 
galaxy said:
Not quite true I'm afraid. Melanomas do rarely cause a horse to loose a life, but my boy was 17 when he died. His first lumps appeared under his tail at age 10. They developed very slowly and at age 16 he looked a million dollars. That winter he lost weight and then in the spring developed chronic diarrhoea and he was finally put down in the July. The final months they really multiplied. You can never predict when and if this will happen. The only thing predictable is that they are unpredictable.
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Im sorry to hear that. I guess you're right, they are completely unpredictable. Everyone has a different story to tell on their horse and melanoma. Fingers crossed for us all that ours isn't an awful one.
 
I'm afraid you can't really tell for sure if they do have them internally.

Someone I knew had a grey with small melanomas around his lips and rectum that had never bothered him. He lost a lot of weight over a few months. When he was PTS he was sent of for a post mortem and his intestines where found the be riddled with them.

I recently met another horse who had melanomas around her lips. Her owner noticed a raised bump on her neck and the horse was reluctant to bend in her neck. The owner got the lump scanned, and found it to be a melanoma that was about 8-10cm into her neck. There was also another smaller one that is very close to her jugular.

I guess for ones you may notice then maybe a biopsy or scan? For intestinal ones maybe an endoscopy or internal biopsy? however as stated this is not fool proof, an endoscopy may appear normal, as melanomas could be within the surrounding tissues and not the GI tract at all. If you do an internal biopsy, there is no guarantee that healthy tissue may be sampled instead.
 
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MotherofChickens - Thank you very much for this info. My boy is 24 and has a few on the underside of his tail, one slightly bigger than the others but none are very big. They have not changed size. I just started thinking about it and wondering how would you know if they have them on the inside too. It sounds like mostly they only get picked up when they start causing problems though.

Thanks all for your replies
 
YouOnlyLiveOnce said:
MotherofChickens - Thank you very much for this info. My boy is 24 and has a few on the underside of his tail, one slightly bigger than the others but none are very big. They have not changed size. I just started thinking about it and wondering how would you know if they have them on the inside too. It sounds like mostly they only get picked up when they start causing problems though.

Thanks all for your replies
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At 24 years of age I really would not be doing biopsy's or anything else. Just leave him to enjoy his old age.

I had a grey, well snow white from 15 onwards, he had 2 marble size smooth lumps under his dock that never changed shape. I lost him aged 28 when he started to struggle to rise and I found him down in his box a few times. He had developed a lump behind his ear at around 26 but no other lumps.

The horse I mentioned earlier on in the thread was only 15 and in a dreadful mess internally.
 
Mine has huge melanomas on the inside of his sheath so sort of external but not visible unless he's got everything out to have a wee. I first noticed them a year ago, but they've obviously been there a while but were only visible when they got so big that they were poking out the end of his sheath. He's 17 and has had a couple of very small ones around his anus for about 4 years. He's otherwise healthy, happy, comfortable and fighting fit. To remove them would require major surgery (with the chances of him having them internally pretty high) so we've opted to go with a watching brief for now. I've always said I won't put him through surgery, particularly if he's over 20 by the time he needs it, but whether I'll be that brave when push comes to shove I don't know. I've never had to make that decision before. I've been in touch with Derek Knottenbelt about trying the localised chemo but he said they're too big and would have to be reduced by surgery first. He's very helpful though if you want some advice.
 
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