Menage arena sand riding too deep- anyone taken to court??

T

TassyP

New User
Joined
14 September 2015
Messages
6
Visit site
Hi all
I recently installed a menage (ourselves as we are a building company) we followed steps given by combi ride as we bought the dual stabiliser off them to mix in. We built the menage perfectly and all went to plan until we needed sand. we were aware that we needed silica sand but our local quarry were not producing at the time and we were advised to try cemex by combi ride. Cemex advised us that they do have a product that is widely used as equestrian sand and gave us examples of who used it (david broomes ec). We purchased the sand (140t) it looked like normal beach sand but we were told it was correct. We decided to use dual stabiliser because if for any reason the sand was not the best quality dual stabiliser is suppose to sort this out. unfortunately this was not the case... the sand rides about 6-8 inches deep on very step...its a nightmare. We have been informed that cemex don't want to know and combi ride and advised that it is the sand.
we are about to go through small claims to get the cost of sand back off cemex but i'm wondering if anyone has been through the courts before??? what was the outcome?? i'll be devastated if we loose as ill be stuck with a worthless menage! please help!

thanks
 
You took advice from a company but built your own arena, ordered your own sand from CEMEX, CEMEX delivered the amount of sand you asked them to deliver, and you are now going through the small claims court to get the cost of the sand beck from CEMEX?

Good luck.
 
i asked Cemex if they sold equestrian sand- they said 'YES' they did not advise that it wasn't equestrian nor did they advise that it might need irrigating etc... they sold me a product that is not suitable for the use that it was sold. They also have a duty of care to ask a customer what they are using 140 tonne of sand for (according to cs law)... If they had told me that the sand may not work or needs to be tested or irrigated etc then i would not have bought it...
 
It was 0/2 ... £22 per ton

I know now more about sand than i'll ever need to know but unfortunately did not before the installation and went with advise that it worked really well at a large equestrian centre. They are now not selling it as equestrian sand.
 
I have seen too many disasters with self-build arenas.
Like anything else it requires a lot of experience to build one properly and also to have the correct contacts to source the correct quality materials.
 
Arenas made with the wrong sand will need irrigating or it will be like riding on a ball pond.

You could try mixing fibre with it or putting rubber on top but as you have done a self build I very much doubt you have any comeback.

ETA Cemex are not a company that specialises in arena sand so them saying that it will be OK is a bit meaningless - it's a bit like asking your butcher to bake you a cake...
 
Last edited:
Bit harsh comments here.

> You asked combi-ride a specialist ménage surface company for a recommendation for sand,
> They suggested you try cemex,
> Cemex confirm they sell a sand that has been widely used for equestrian surfaces (including name
dropping a few well known people / places).
> You place an order for sand
> As a safety precaution you also buy a dual stabiliser from combi-ride just in case

Personally I think you are right to follow up on it and I would also be looking at claiming back the cost of the dual stabiliser from combi-ride.

The small claims court are normally quite good and walk you through it. It would probably help if you could get someone from combi-ride to come and look at your surface and confirm what they believe the problem is. After all its the least they can do considering they recommended cemex.

Can I just ask what you will need to do to rectify the position as presumably you will need to remove the current surface and order more sand of the correct type but will you also need more product from combi-ride ? If so are you claiming for these costs as well ?
 
How long has the sand been down and how much water has it had? It can take up to six weeks of watering/rain to get the sand to compact.

Having said that you say the sand is up to 2mm? That is huge and probably the source of your problem. You'd need maximum 0.25mm sub-angular sand.

To prove the sand is not fit for use you will need to get it analysed to determine what you have and then present expert opinions from two experts saying that this size/type sand is not suitable for equestrian use.

If you decide to live with it Clopf is quite good for sorting out this kind of problem.
 
Lizzie66 said:
Bit harsh comments here.

> You asked combi-ride a specialist ménage surface company for a recommendation for sand,
> They suggested you try cemex,
> Cemex confirm they sell a sand that has been widely used for equestrian surfaces (including name
dropping a few well known people / places).
> You place an order for sand
> As a safety precaution you also buy a dual stabiliser from combi-ride just in case

Personally I think you are right to follow up on it and I would also be looking at claiming back the cost of the dual stabiliser from combi-ride.

The small claims court are normally quite good and walk you through it. It would probably help if you could get someone from combi-ride to come and look at your surface and confirm what they believe the problem is. After all its the least they can do considering they recommended cemex.

Can I just ask what you will need to do to rectify the position as presumably you will need to remove the current surface and order more sand of the correct type but will you also need more product from combi-ride ? If so are you claiming for these costs as well ?
Click to expand...

This,
 
My £25k professionally installed combi ride surface rode deep for ever - the company were useless and constantly dreamt up reasons it wasn't their fault - good luck sorting anything out with them!

Get an expert to look as sand sample (under microscope) 'normal' sand is round so it can't stabalise) equestrian sand is square/ brick shaped - so it can compact down - v difficult to tell looking at it with the naked eye but dead easy up close. What does your invoice from CEMEX state you bought and do you have what they said about it being suitable in writing?
 
Follow up on my original post.

I have since googled combi-ride and describing them as an "expert" ménage company might be a bit of an overstatement !

Do what Polos Mum said.
 
Hi,
Ive not read all the comments. However some have held the purchaser responsible for several reasons including lack of knowledge. this is simply not correct. Anyone is at liberty to purchase a sand for equestrian arenas. A supplier knowing the intended use has a duty to ensure the product they supply is fit for the intended purpose. It is not the responsibility of the purchaser to check a products suitability, nor analyse sand shape, size, or clay content. why would a purchaser be an expert, the seller should be.

The reality is that both small and large suppliers of sand, sometimes and not always either don't check specifications of a product, or in instances actually supply a product knowing only too well the product supplied will not work.

If the OP requested sand for an arena, then the company was at liberty to either say they could not supply a fit for purpose sand for an arena, or ensure the product they supplied was fit for purpose.

fit for purpose sand does not ride deep, it does not require watering. it does not require continuous rolling. I am no expert, I have also been sold sand for an arena from a highly regarded equestrian centre that was suitable for equestrian use, that turned out to be dug from a farmers field. 800 tonnes. never checked for size or shape.

Correct me if im wrong, an angular or sub angular sand, with variation in size distribution will help create a good arena surface, provided a product is added to give it stability(fibres or similar).

A rounded sub rounded sand is bad, take out the fines and you could roll it for ever and water it as much as you like, it will never come right.

Unless you specifically say you want a unsuitable sand don't blame anyone other than the supplier, it is there job for which they have been paid to supply a product that is useable.

Steveeasy
 
steveeasy said:
Hi,
Ive not read all the comments. However some have held the purchaser responsible for several reasons including lack of knowledge. this is simply not correct. Anyone is at liberty to purchase a sand for equestrian arenas. A supplier knowing the intended use has a duty to ensure the product they supply is fit for the intended purpose. It is not the responsibility of the purchaser to check a products suitability, nor analyse sand shape, size, or clay content. why would a purchaser be an expert, the seller should be.

The reality is that both small and large suppliers of sand, sometimes and not always either don't check specifications of a product, or in instances actually supply a product knowing only too well the product supplied will not work.

If the OP requested sand for an arena, then the company was at liberty to either say they could not supply a fit for purpose sand for an arena, or ensure the product they supplied was fit for purpose.

fit for purpose sand does not ride deep, it does not require watering. it does not require continuous rolling. I am no expert, I have also been sold sand for an arena from a highly regarded equestrian centre that was suitable for equestrian use, that turned out to be dug from a farmers field. 800 tonnes. never checked for size or shape.

Correct me if im wrong, an angular or sub angular sand, with variation in size distribution will help create a good arena surface, provided a product is added to give it stability(fibres or similar).

A rounded sub rounded sand is bad, take out the fines and you could roll it for ever and water it as much as you like, it will never come right.

Unless you specifically say you want a unsuitable sand don't blame anyone other than the supplier, it is there job for which they have been paid to supply a product that is useable.

Steveeasy
Click to expand...





OK, having been though this myself a few years ago, you need to get the sand analysed by 'Site Analitcial Services' and get a written report from them from a sample. That will tell you what grades of sand it is and if it is suitable for equestrian use. I had this same issue with Mansfield Sand who sold me sand which wasn't suitable and they admitted liability.
 
TassyP said:
Hi all
I recently installed a menage (ourselves as we are a building company) we followed steps given by combi ride as we bought the dual stabiliser off them to mix in. We built the menage perfectly and all went to plan until we needed sand. we were aware that we needed silica sand but our local quarry were not producing at the time and we were advised to try cemex by combi ride. Cemex advised us that they do have a product that is widely used as equestrian sand and gave us examples of who used it (david broomes ec). We purchased the sand (140t) it looked like normal beach sand but we were told it was correct. We decided to use dual stabiliser because if for any reason the sand was not the best quality dual stabiliser is suppose to sort this out. unfortunately this was not the case... the sand rides about 6-8 inches deep on very step...its a nightmare. We have been informed that cemex don't want to know and combi ride and advised that it is the sand.
we are about to go through small claims to get the cost of sand back off cemex but i'm wondering if anyone has been through the courts before??? what was the outcome?? i'll be devastated if we loose as ill be stuck with a worthless menage! please help!

thanks
Click to expand...

Ours rides deep too , it is a mixture of silica ans pvc, it just needs a goo soaking
 
Just out of interest OP how is your surface riding 6-8 inches deep as you only originally bought enough sand to give you a three inch deep surface i find this somewhat puzzling.

Silica sand indeed does come in different grades and if you just asked for silica sand that may be part of the problem. It is perfectly possible that what Cemex supplied may work a lot depends on what its mixed with and how well it is maintained as others have said it can take a long time for a surface to settle and the best way with sand is to flood it for a couple of days rolling is pointless.

If you really feel you wish to go down the litigation route you will need expert witnesses to say the sand is the problem and not how you have constructed it ,you will also need deep pockets taking on a company the size of cemex.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top