Mercy for cushings horses

Z

Zargon_91

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 May 2012
Messages
323
Visit site
Unfortunately today I had my 26 yo cob pts. He was diagnosed with cushings disease last year and has been on pergolide since. His cushings was carefully managed and it was believed we caught it relatively early- his ACTH was at 129 initially, so not rediculus and it was only a bout of mild lami that lead to his diognosis.

Over the last year dan declined, but not dramatically- he lost his appetite and struggled somewhat through the winter. When he was being ridden if his heart rate got up he would pin back an ear and shake his head, as if in discomfort. Through the last few months dans temperament changed dramatically- he became extremely aggressive towards humans and horses across the stable door. I also noticed when he was eating or drinking with his head close to the floor his ear would pin, and he would shake his head- like he did when exercising when his HR became raised.

I made the decision to have dan pts because the coming winter would have been extremely difficult, and considering his change in temperament felt his quality of life was compromised.

Dan was euthanised via bolt gun due to my personal preference, but what happened after was shocking. (the euthanasia went completely to plan, and he went very quickly) instantly when he was shot thick, dark blood gushed from his nose- there was easily a few litres ( covered approximately 6' square area). I think the blood was due to the vascular nature of tumours, but also the increased pressure in the skull due to the pituitary tumour.

This is a plea to owners with cushings horses being treated long term with pergolide: bare in mind the root cause of cushings disease. It is a tumour growing in the brain, and will cause pain when it gets big enough. Put the quality of life of you're horse first.
 
Thank you and bless you for posting.

My old boy is 26 and he was diagnosed in April with an ACTH of over 200 :( He's been in Prascend since and we have repeat bloods this week.

It's uncomfortable reading but I appreciate you posting this. I will keep this in mind for the future.

RIP Dan.
 
Sorry to hear about your horse.

I hope you do not mind my asking but I have not seen a horse after it has been shot before. How much blood would be usual?

I am keen to learn as last year I was told my pony had early stage cushings but the next time she was tested her ACTH levels were normal. She has not been on pergolide but it is a possibility in future.
 
I'm nOt saying this is the case with all horses, but dans ACTH was normal- I think it's very easy to treat the symptoms and think it's ok, whilst ignoring the root cause of the problem- I know I did. But I'm very glad I didn't leave today any later, for his sake :)
 
Normally the amount is small. Small amount from the entry hole and very small amount from the nostrils.

The amount from the entry was normal in this case. The amount from the blood was abnormal and it rushed out quickly, like releasing something at high pressure and quickly covered a large area. Some of this was also dark and thick.

Rest in peace Dan. Legend of a horse who will be sadly missed.
 
Cocorules said:
Sorry to hear about your horse.

I hope you do not mind my asking but I have not seen a horse after it has been shot before. How much blood would be usual?

I am keen to learn as last year I was told my pony had early stage cushings but the next time she was tested her ACTH levels were normal. She has not been on pergolide but it is a possibility in future.
Click to expand...


A very small amount. Our labradors also use the earth yard and we have been able to cover the blood with straw/shavings and seep the lot up without the labs bothering with the site at all - so you can tell - very little!

OP, I completely agree that quality of life has to be paramount.
RIP Dan.
 
Zargon, sorry to hear of your loss :(

I had 28yr old Little Fuzzy PTS by same method one sunny day in early March this year. She was also cushings diagnosed at the end of last summer. She was also tested, put on Pergolide etc. levels had lowered, she was clipped for the 1st timein her life at xmas, but by late Feb things just got too much for her to cope with.

At the end, there was also far more blood than I've ever dealt with in having any equine PTS in that way and the good friend knackerman that did her commented on it, saying he'd had this happen before with advanced Cushings animals. He was also well prepared for it to happen too, with a large bucket of earth & big bag.

Perhaps one of our resident vets on here might comment on this? I cetainly didn't know, but this was my 1st with Cushings.
 
It's interesting that this is consistent- it makes me cross because the quality of life was so obviously compromised but as an owners there is very little information saying just how serious cushings truly is.
 
So sorry to hear of your loss. So far the few cushings horses I have known have been pts due to other causes before the cushings had much impact on them & was still at a very mild stage, so I appreciate you sharing what happened, its not something I had considered before.
 
Am so sorry OP; I lost my boy to cushings too 7 yrs ago and had to make the decision to PTS by lethal injection which was beautifully peaceful and exactly what I would have wanted for him.

I think that anyone who's had to make the PTS decision will probably have, in hindsight, thought that they would have made it sooner if they'd had the same situation again, but we all do what we have to do and we do it - hopefully - with the wellbeing of our horses uppermost at what is an awful time. Its never an easy decision, and I think there will always be that element of questioning oneself as to whether it was done at the "right" time, or not. But the main thing is that we've done it, we've made a humane choice and made sure that we do the right thing for our horses when it really matters.

So I'm just extending my sympathies to you; thank you for sharing so honestly about the PTS process; that must have been incredibly hard to have witnessed and also hard to share here on this forum. As you say, your horse would not have known anything about what happened and it would have been instantaneous.

Its never easy making these sorts of choices; there are various methods to do what has to be done and as its something we will all (very probably) have to face at some stage, IMO one has to be prepared and think/discuss the thing through with friends, YO's, vets etc. It HAS to be faced and its best to be prepared.

But sending hugs to you OP; RIP your dear equine friend.
 
RIP to your lovely horse.

I have a pony with cushings and whilst he has issues from his past, you have almost described him. I have already made a decision to re-assess the situation at the end of september, but I am doubtful that i will run him through winter as he really struggled with the last one. He's never had laminitis, but I'd rather not wait until that day comes.
 
rip to the horse.but my chosen method is still a gun! fast and instant, can be messy. but in my opinion having watched ones done by injection they gasp and twitch for 10 minutes.sorry not EVER an easy decision, and each to their own, no wrongs or rights.
 
OP I am very sorry to hear of your loss and appreciate the strength it took you to make such a brave and loving decision for your boy, I completely get what you are saying, having had my beautiful girl pts this week and having discussed at length the possibility of putting her on steroids (different diagnosis) I became acutely aware that what I would be buying was time while the condition raged on inside her and the damage continued. For personal preference I went with the injection and I can honestly say that other than the occasional calm snort and flutter of eyelid she was completely calm, she even fell gently and calmly, although I'm aware this is not always case, both methods can cause a nervous reaction but there was certainly no blood. I completely agree with your sentiment that we should very carefully assess each given situation and act appropriately and with the utmost compassion when it comes to considering the last days of our horses. I understand that your horse was uncomfortable towards the end and it must have been very distressing to see all that blood, but hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure that you gave him many extra days that he did enjoy post diagnosis with his condition controlled and you were compassionate and listened to him when he said enough was enough x don't berate yourself for this choice, tumours are vasculour that is a fact but it does not mean that they always cause pain and many horses lead excellent lives well controlled on medication for a number of years, as long as we are vigilant, listen to our horses and read them well, they will tell us, like yours did and mine, when it is time.
 
I don't regret making this choice for dan, it was the best thing by far. I'm concerned for other horses with cushings because he showed signs that there was a pressure inside his head which was confirmed today, I just wanted to post to allow other owners to make a better decision regarding their own horses, from what I have found the information available for cushings cases is limited and only ever a dresses the effects rather than the possibility a tumour on the brain may cause pain. (or may not, but the pressure released today would indicate at least a headache). I'm very sorry for you're loss too- it is never an easy decision, but it is a luxury. I wish I was a horse and someone could make that decision for me one day.
 
Gosh this is difficult reading

My best equine friend of 17 years was diagnosed with Cushings last month and is on 1 tablet of Pergolide a day. Since starting the tablets he has become depressed and lost his appetite, my non-horsey OH says he looks like he is not all there mentally. He also is a very herd-bound little horse normally and since he started the drugs I find him spending more and more time on his own.

Discussed this with the vet and we have reduced the dose to 1/2 a tablet a day to see if we can find a happy balance as he is not currently my little man as I know him.

He had bloods taken Monday to check how the drugs were working at 1 tablet a day and bled a lot from where it was taken and the vet commented on his blood pressure.
 
I'm sorry to hear that, it's never easy :( he might be experiencing 'pergolide depression' if he has only been on it a month. You will know what you have to do when the time comes though :( xx
 
Sad news Z, a brave decision and the right one - too many horses are kept going, because they can (and not just horses), and knowing you waited even a day too long is worse than thinking you were a day, week, a year too soon.

Most of my oldies have been put down by gun at the hunt kennels if they are able to load and travel there, one put down at home had the bolt method by a recommended knackerman. Only one of them shot at kennels bled profusely and I have often wondered why. He had a dipped back but nothing else to indicate Cushings. Thank you for sharing this, it does help to know what might be expected.
 
Queenbee... You have worded so much better what I was trying to say badly on the thread in Vets.
Alas Shellonabeach's reaction was at the back of my mind that some may be very upset by the post needlessly.
Prascend is effective at managing side effects Cushings. We all know our own horses, and their normal behaviour, and if in doubt a detailed conversation with your own vets should reassure general concerns.
Every horse is different, every tumour will be different... It's about managing symptoms humanely and sensibly. Brain pressure would usually manifest itself with head pressing, and neurological symptoms would also start to become obvious if antimony got large.
I truly hope forum members aren't worried unecessarily by an individual situation.
 
OP my family and I were having exactly the same conversation about animals versus humans, that age old saying 'if it were an animal...' I'm so very glad I could make that decision for my girl. When we were trying to come up with a diagnosis we did test for cushings, and found cortisol was raised but not from cushings, but I did note exactly what you did, all you seem to read is curly coat, kidneys, sway back, raised cortisol, benign Tumour, pituitary gland, prascend, never anything on other potential effects of the tumour, and I was back to back reading up on it for days. Incompletely agree that such sizeable masses must cause pressure and therefore discomfort and owners should be aware of this. My mare just had tense muscles from high natural head carriage, for which she had massages etc, but when I got her she was so headshy and this is from a tense muscle, not from a flipping great big tumour growing where it shouldn't :( as I said, I'm so sorry for your loss, you seem to love your boy dearly and did the best by him, I know the end was more graphic than you expected and it makes you wish you maybe decided sooner, but we can't change what has happened, but you have been incredibly strong in coming on here and sharing your experience in the hope of informing others when they are making their decisions with their horses.

Xx
 
I don't want to scare anyone- pergolide has given me an extra year with my horse. And certainly I haven't worded every post as well as I'd have liked, I'm still very upset and more than likely this is a thread that I should have waited a few days before posting, but again hindsight is a wonderful thing :/. I only want to offer another experience so people can make a better educated choice, which i truly believe is very important.

Im of a strong belief the tumour will be causing discomfort firstly because of the amount of blood today- words cannot describe but also because of a thorough knowledge of the anatomy- I've done a head dissection ( currently doing equine science at Moreton morrell) and there simply isn't room in the skull of swelling, and tbh it scares me that I put my horse through that after seeing what happened today and don't want anyone else to feel like this.
 
millimoo said:
Queenbee... You have worded so much better what I was trying to say badly on the thread in Vets.
Alas Shellonabeach's reaction was at the back of my mind that some may be very upset by the post needlessly.
Prascend is effective at managing side effects Cushings. We all know our own horses, and their normal behaviour, and if in doubt a detailed conversation with your own vets should reassure general concerns.
Every horse is different, every tumour will be different... It's about managing symptoms humanely and sensibly. Brain pressure would usually manifest itself with head pressing, and neurological symptoms would also start to become obvious if antimony got large.
I truly hope forum members aren't worried unecessarily by an individual situation.
Click to expand...

The OP's post hasn't needlessly upset me, obviously things a bit raw with his diagnosis having only been last month and with the change in behaviour. The Prascend is without doubt causing the issues with my boy, issues raised with my vet when she came to see him Monday. Seeing him a shadow of his former self is very difficult.
 
Shell- contact dodson and horrell and ask to talk to the guy in charge of the herbs research- I took part in a trial which used chaste tree berries- usually used in hormonal mares and is good at supplementing the pergolide. Dan was too fussy to keep eating it but when he was eating it his moods regulated. It might be some help
 
Thank you for posting xxxx

My cushingoid old bat has been managed for years on monk's pepper, but I fear she may be getting to the end of the road. It's not knowing what to do for the best, as they can be so inconsistent.
 
Sorry to hear about your cob OP but appreciate you posting for others to learn from your experience. I don't think it can ever feel the right time or decision to PTS from the owner point of view (it's difficult playing God !) but at least he's now pain free, RIP.
 
Such a hard read! I know of a horse with Cushings and the owner is acting oblivious to it... she was getting him ready for 12 mile rides etc! He looks so ill, doesn't want to move on and so she gets out spurs and whip... it's awful and I wish she would see the light.

On views on PTS method... I have only seen injection once but it was very graceful and she died peacefully after a terrible few hours of pacing and falling etc (colic type symptoms) it was the right way for her and you could tell she was ready to go. minimal blood from wound, none from nostrils and no twitching etc. I hope when the time comes for my old boy he can have the same ending.
 
I have a cushings lad. And sad though this post is I am grateful for it. My lad had been on Pergolide for 3 years now. Other than one bout of Lami - which caused his diagnosis - he has been fine. (I took him on just over a year ago - so was fully aware of his medical history.) He is carefully managed and his ACTH is around the 100 mark with bloods done every 6 months.

He was ridden until very recently which he started to become clearly uncomfortable. Consutation with vets, saddler etc led to the conclusion it was the loss of back fat associated with proper cushings management that led to discomfort. We are now just long lining and playing with him so he has variety and challenge in his life.

God willing I will be with him when the final deicicon is made to PTS. ( And God Willing it will not bo too soon!) I probably will still use a bolt because that is the method I have the most experience with and I have always found to be humane. But at least this way I will know what I could possibly expect. Thank you for posting.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top