Michael Whitaker loses top horses
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KenRehill
Well-Known Member
Yes, this was reported in L'eperon back on the 12th February, so it's slightly old news. The story is essentially, that the Des Hayettes horses were sent to Micheal to be sold, there was no big secret in that, but three years on Yves Lauwers (who is Belgian not French) was more than a little frustrated. In fact, it was reported that he had expressed his annoyance more than six months ago, but nothing had changed and so Yves withdrew his horses. The deal had been that whilst Micheal competed the horses, he paid all the costs, but got a high percentage of the winnings, which were substantial.
I see it's reported that "it's no big deal", well that's not my view. Quidame is a big loss to any speed class (at La baule last year, she was a sensation). These are very very good horses, and in a pre Olympic year (2007) they wouldn't have been too difficult to sell, especially in America. So I guess they were worth hanging on to, which may well be why they were never sold?!
Hopefully not too contraversial.
I see it's reported that "it's no big deal", well that's not my view. Quidame is a big loss to any speed class (at La baule last year, she was a sensation). These are very very good horses, and in a pre Olympic year (2007) they wouldn't have been too difficult to sell, especially in America. So I guess they were worth hanging on to, which may well be why they were never sold?!
Hopefully not too contraversial.
Paddywhack
Well-Known Member
Yes they have gone off to someone to be sold,if i was an owner of 2 of the highest winning horses and ridden/competed by a Whittaker i would be laughing all the way to the bank now,can you imagine the value of those horses after competed 2 years by him.....££££££££££ is all i can say
So part of me is not really feeling too sorry for the owner if thats the case
So part of me is not really feeling too sorry for the owner if thats the case
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Well there is nothing wrong with a bit of controversy. If anyone sends a horse to any rider to be sold & the owner is paying for it to be in the yard then those wishes should be adherred to. You are paid to do a job, simple. What did nark me though (if it is true) that MW had told the owner that embryo transfer was proving not to be possible in Britain. That remark is a slap in the face for all the fantastic centres that are offering ET in GB.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
I do hope he didn't imply there was no embryo transfer in the UK
KenRehill
Well-Known Member
I think the ET thing was a clash of cultures. In Europe, we have huge centres like Keros, who have 724 recipient mares. Gaby had to buy six farms to house the mares, which is about half of Belgium (that's the other half that Mr Melchior doesn't own!). So, Yves would have expected Quidame to have provided at least three embyos each year, so that he would have hed 9 kids from her either on the ground or coming.
Remember, Yves Lauwers is a breeder first and foremost, thus has lost out on up to 350,000 because he doesn't have these foals. What he's used to, is mares like this being harvested regularly throughout the season, but with Micheal being in the UK, it would have been impossible for him to (even if the desire was there) get the job done, because of the extra miles and time involved in getting in and out of the UK.
I don't think that this is a snub to ETing in the UK, this was a logistics problem.
You've got a clash between a breeder, who wants to sell his horses and get embryos, and a total competitor who doesn't have a huge interest in breeding (I know he does do some).
So, with Arko out and Pilgrim gone and no Des Hayettes horses, are we looking good for the Games?
Remember, Yves Lauwers is a breeder first and foremost, thus has lost out on up to 350,000 because he doesn't have these foals. What he's used to, is mares like this being harvested regularly throughout the season, but with Micheal being in the UK, it would have been impossible for him to (even if the desire was there) get the job done, because of the extra miles and time involved in getting in and out of the UK.
I don't think that this is a snub to ETing in the UK, this was a logistics problem.
You've got a clash between a breeder, who wants to sell his horses and get embryos, and a total competitor who doesn't have a huge interest in breeding (I know he does do some).
So, with Arko out and Pilgrim gone and no Des Hayettes horses, are we looking good for the Games?
Weezy
Well-Known Member
The ET comment was reported to have been made by Michael, NOT Yves! I can fully understand the latter's frustration if what we have read is true.
Looking good for the games? I plead the Fifth on that one
Looking good for the games? I plead the Fifth on that one
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
At least we have all the excuses we need already for not getting a medal.
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
But, if as you say Yves would have wanted 3 embryos each year totalling 9 in the 3 years the horse was with MW. Why was this impossible to do in GB? We do have some very good centres here that would easily have coped with this request.
KenRehill
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more, there are one or two excellent ET centres and i send clients to them all the time.
The problem is logistics and time. Quidame was barely out of competition for the whole of 2007 and at best the ET process can take two or three weeks. Would MW have wanted her out of competition/training for that period? Even if he did, would he have had time? probably not on both counts.
The problem is logistics and time. Quidame was barely out of competition for the whole of 2007 and at best the ET process can take two or three weeks. Would MW have wanted her out of competition/training for that period? Even if he did, would he have had time? probably not on both counts.
Vicki_Krystal
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
At least we have all the excuses we need already for not getting a medal.
[/ QUOTE ]
PMSL - i was just thinking the same!
At least we have all the excuses we need already for not getting a medal.
[/ QUOTE ]
PMSL - i was just thinking the same!
The Voice
Well-Known Member
Michael's comments may of course have been taken out of context. He has easily been our most consistant rider over the last decade with different horses so I am certain that he has others that will make the step up, so although a loss, he will have others to replace them.
He is also one of the few top riders that breed's horses including Carnival Path who was European Champion with William, so he is not going to put down British Breeding.
I am sure both owner and rider have been happy with the partnership over the last 2 1/2 years whilst it suited, otherwise the horses would have gone earlier. perhaps the big offers didn't come in as hoped last year (lets blame the credit crunch in the US).
He is also one of the few top riders that breed's horses including Carnival Path who was European Champion with William, so he is not going to put down British Breeding.
I am sure both owner and rider have been happy with the partnership over the last 2 1/2 years whilst it suited, otherwise the horses would have gone earlier. perhaps the big offers didn't come in as hoped last year (lets blame the credit crunch in the US).
KenRehill
Well-Known Member
i'm sitting in Wellington right now and I can tell you that the credit crunch is having no effect on the sale of top horse over here. The deals I've overheard being made here are mind blowing.
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Isnt it just the case Ken. I am a firm believer in when America sneezes everyone in the UK catches the cold.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Isnt it just the case Ken. I am a firm believer in when America sneezes everyone in the UK catches the cold.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not the uk anymore....it's Europe....well, from a finance point of view anyway.
Have you not noticed how all the European Banks are writing off these billions of euros as a result of the US sub-prime crisis....and yet still making record profits
Being a sceptic, you'd have to ask how politicially correct it would look for the banks to post their true profits if they hadn't written a load off to bad debt. Just wonder how they'll cover things up next year though....
Isnt it just the case Ken. I am a firm believer in when America sneezes everyone in the UK catches the cold.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not the uk anymore....it's Europe....well, from a finance point of view anyway.
Have you not noticed how all the European Banks are writing off these billions of euros as a result of the US sub-prime crisis....and yet still making record profits
Being a sceptic, you'd have to ask how politicially correct it would look for the banks to post their true profits if they hadn't written a load off to bad debt. Just wonder how they'll cover things up next year though....
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isnt it just the case Ken. I am a firm believer in when America sneezes everyone in the UK catches the cold.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not the uk anymore....it's Europe....well, from a finance point of view anyway.
Have you not noticed how all the European Banks are writing off these billions of euros as a result of the US sub-prime crisis....and yet still making record profits
Being a sceptic, you'd have to ask how politicially correct it would look for the banks to post their true profits if they hadn't written a load off to bad debt. Just wonder how they'll cover things up next year though....
[/ QUOTE ]
They have all been in spin overdrive - all lost so much money on sub prime - big announcements and then hidden away the fact that they have made record profits. They just want an excuse to charge us more money.
[ QUOTE ]
Isnt it just the case Ken. I am a firm believer in when America sneezes everyone in the UK catches the cold.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not the uk anymore....it's Europe....well, from a finance point of view anyway.
Have you not noticed how all the European Banks are writing off these billions of euros as a result of the US sub-prime crisis....and yet still making record profits
Being a sceptic, you'd have to ask how politicially correct it would look for the banks to post their true profits if they hadn't written a load off to bad debt. Just wonder how they'll cover things up next year though....
[/ QUOTE ]
They have all been in spin overdrive - all lost so much money on sub prime - big announcements and then hidden away the fact that they have made record profits. They just want an excuse to charge us more money.
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I did intend to edit & say Europe then I couldnt be bothered
Char345
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
At least we have all the excuses we need already for not getting a medal.
[/ QUOTE ]
We still have Portofino/ Locarno/ Corlato/ Peppermill
and possibly Ronaldo/ Russel/ Thesaura/ Mondrian
also lets not forget Peter Charles switching back nationalities witha few good horses.
Ok so we're not in the situation we maybe would like to be in BUT at the moment we are not in to bad of a position.
At least we have all the excuses we need already for not getting a medal.
[/ QUOTE ]
We still have Portofino/ Locarno/ Corlato/ Peppermill
and possibly Ronaldo/ Russel/ Thesaura/ Mondrian
also lets not forget Peter Charles switching back nationalities witha few good horses.
Ok so we're not in the situation we maybe would like to be in BUT at the moment we are not in to bad of a position.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At least we have all the excuses we need already for not getting a medal.
[/ QUOTE ]
We still have Portofino/ Locarno/ Corlato/ Peppermill
and possibly Ronaldo/ Russel/ Thesaura/ Mondrian
also lets not forget Peter Charles switching back nationalities witha few good horses.
Ok so we're not in the situation we maybe would like to be in BUT at the moment we are not in to bad of a position.
[/ QUOTE ]
We may have four or five good horses...possibly even world class horses....but remember, it's not just about having them, it's keeping them fit and well, and hoping they all hit top form at the same time
On that basis, it's much better to have a pool of 9 or 10 top horses like say the Germans or the Dutch...
[ QUOTE ]
At least we have all the excuses we need already for not getting a medal.
[/ QUOTE ]
We still have Portofino/ Locarno/ Corlato/ Peppermill
and possibly Ronaldo/ Russel/ Thesaura/ Mondrian
also lets not forget Peter Charles switching back nationalities witha few good horses.
Ok so we're not in the situation we maybe would like to be in BUT at the moment we are not in to bad of a position.
[/ QUOTE ]
We may have four or five good horses...possibly even world class horses....but remember, it's not just about having them, it's keeping them fit and well, and hoping they all hit top form at the same time
On that basis, it's much better to have a pool of 9 or 10 top horses like say the Germans or the Dutch...
tigers_eye
Well-Known Member
Out of interest how many of those horses have competed in Kuala Lumpur? It's the closest I can think of geographicly, and hence a possible indicator of how they will cope with the conditions? Instinct would tell me a horse like Portofino might struggle, she doesn't look like she has much blood. Don't think I'd want to rely on Mondriaan either in those conditions. Always had a soft spot for Thesaura, would be nice to see her picked and rise to the occasion. What's happened to Tim Gredley since that brief purple patch he had a while back?
Char345
Active Member
[/ QUOTE ]We may have four or five good horses...possibly even world class horses....but remember, it's not just about having them, it's keeping them fit and well, and hoping they all hit top form at the same time
On that basis, it's much better to have a pool of 9 or 10 top horses like say the Germans or the Dutch...
[/ QUOTE ]
i agree completely, the more the better but just saying that we do have some great horses. we would no doubt have more like the dutch and germans if we could keep horses in this country and i think the bef/bsja are finally trying to assist in that with the equine pathway system.
thesaura is definately capable of it although didnt see her do much last year, i hope shes back and ready this year.
tim is still about but havent seen omelli since his injury. i dont think he has anything else at that level at the moment although i think timo will be top class in a few years.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
Yes, Omelli has been off the scene for about 18 months now...any idea what the injury was ?
I agree with T_E on the 'blood' front...although interestingly Portofino is probably the only one of the horses mentioned above that has been to Kuala Lumpar
Wasn't it there though that she completely shut down in one of the later rounds when Michael was in a very good position.....but then she bounced back to win the GP the next day
I'd add another couple of outsiders to the list as well btw....Lacroix and perhaps even Arielle....who knows
I agree with T_E on the 'blood' front...although interestingly Portofino is probably the only one of the horses mentioned above that has been to Kuala Lumpar
I'd add another couple of outsiders to the list as well btw....Lacroix and perhaps even Arielle....who knows
Char345
Active Member
agree that arielle and lacroix would be outsiders, and obviously both hugely talented however i heard that arielle is bad with water which is why she does really well indoors and not so good outdoors? dont know how true this is but have heard from a few people who should know?
