Microchipped but no passport?

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jbramhall

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Please can someone tell me how do i go about getting a passport for a horse that has already been passported and microchipped, but all documents were lost in the post ?

Will the said horse just need scanning to get the microchip then request another passport be issued?
 
HELLO!!!

OK, well this is another example of why passports DON'T WORK at all! And why microchipping is a complete farce.

I've had the same happen last week so can give you my experience!

We bought a spotted gelding from another dealer a few months ago, he never arrived with a passport, we weren't overly bothered and though that he would be staying. It's turned out horse isn't right for our riding school, so for sale. I knew i would have to get a passport sorted, so booked vet to chip him last week to do a passport application. Vet arrived, scanned him and hey presto, he had a chip. We weren't really sure what to do so vet said to ring Pet ID and see if they had him on record, if we could geta duplicate passport for him ect. Pet ID said they hadn't issued the chip and it was an IDENTI CHIP one, and to call them. So i rang identi chip, and they had his number, but would not give me previous owners details or even tell me if he had a passport unless I was a "rescue centre". WTF?! They then said I would have to send £6 to them to get him changed in to my name, which I'm not going to do as he's for sale. I asked them about his passport, to which I got the reply "we have nothing to do with passports" , so they have no record of who he's even passported with, which to me seems stupid. I did a passport form and sent it to Weatherbys who I also rang but couldn't help at all, they just said to write the number on the form. Which I did. BUT I thought chips ect. were to stop people clocking horses, moving stolen ones round ect? all you need is a slightly didgy vet or to pretend horses passport is lost and hey presto, horse can have new papers, lose ayear or two ect. IT makes the situation NO BETTER.
SOOOOO.... In answer to your question, just get him a new one, write the passport number on it, they wont ask any questions, as the companies don't work together and the national equine database is a pile of shite. Sorry, I was so angry about this last week its untrue!
 
I bought a horse that came with tis passport but also had a chip! Previous owner did not even know he was chipped! I called petlog, and they where happy to put the chip into my name, as there was nothing flagged on the system to say he was stolen. In fact it turned out the breeder had out the chip in when the horse was born in denmark 12 years prior and the chip had never been registered with another owner. In fact petlog told me that becasue of his breed the chip was used instead of branding and they heard about this sort of thing happening before. I paid over the phone with my card, got the chip papers in the post, and then updated the passport with change of owner and with the chip number to be added. I then got him freezemarked as well.

I think that if a horse is stolen the owner would notify the chip company and then it woudl be on the system. So in that case you could nto get replacement papers or have the chip changed into your name, becasue they would not let you do it. I admit to holding my breath while they checked ot see if he was stolen when i called them...
 
to towershamlet. it is legal to BUY a horse without a passport but ILLEGAL to sell one without a passport.! (work that one out!!!!!!!!) best bite the bullet and pay for a passport. and it can take a long! time before you recieve it! as to lottiesluck get the vet to scan the chip and do the tracing (and hope it isnt stolen). the whole passport/chipping thing doesnt work cos of the re registration fee! should be like cars send the V5 back and job done. passports and microchips are only another fleecing scheme for the horse owner.
 
You say the horse has already been passported and in that case the passport issuer has to issue a new passport and it would be illegal to apply for a passport from someone else. Some of the Continental countries use their country code at the beginning of the chip so 528 codes are Danish. Studbooks have to put chip numbers on the NED but they do need to be told if an older horse is chipped. I had a discussion with Petlog staff the other day and pointed out that the Data Protection Act does not cover horses so there is no problem if you have a chip number and you tell them the name of the horse and they confirm it is the same one on their records.
 
we buy lots from ireland quite a lot are chipped but not passported, totally agree with whoever said chips are a waste of time, but i think passports are too, as whos to know if the passport you recieve is actually the original?? i had a mare who had 2 passports a pet id one and an irish sports horse one, so no one checked if she had one before pet id issued another and yes she was chipped with the number in the irish one as well
 
hangb

I used to get my microchips from the same organisation in Denmark who issue my passports. I am no longer allowed to do this and have to use UK microchips. It seems mad that the passport & microchip are run by two different organisations with no links.
Could you & maybe Ciss not push that at the very least UK PIOS should update the microchip information when a change of owner etc is applied for, where UK PIOs do not issue their own chips. Otherwise the situation seems daft
confused.gif
 
Thankyou for all your replies with lots of information!

As the horse in question is for sale, the vendor (private home) say's all the paperwork was filled in but lost in post - although i do not know where that was to or from the passports offices. I don't even know if the microchip in it will be known? Then i have no idea how to go about it! They told me there were just going to sort it out this year as its the horse's "grown up" year as such ..
Im thinking its probably worth asking her to sort the passport out given all the nightmare stories you've posted, if im to go through with the sale.

Thanks!
 
LottiesLuck- There's no problem applying for the passport itself, as far as I'm concerned now i might as well scribble random numbers down on sheets of paper and send them off with passport applications without having the horses chipped first! Until there is ONE passport issuing authority that also supply the microchips the whole thing is a complete waste of time and as far as I'm concerned, solves nothing. You can still get multiple passports for horses easily, so this means stolen horses can still be moved and competition horses reclocked easily. And it would only be if the horse is reported stolen to the relavent authority (as there is no communication between passport authorities and microchip companies, so its easy to repassport and resell with no one ever knowing, even when you send the passport in to be changed to your name) that the whole horse is stolen and chipped thing would come up anyway. I would therefore strongly advise that people do not rely on microchips for stolen horses and get them freeze marked instead.
 
Ps- ofcourseyoucan, totally agree with you. I think it would be much better if the horse had a defra style log book, just like for cars, but I'm sure the would make a half arsed job of it just like they do everything else and then contract it to a third rate third party.
I can get a passport for a horse within 2 days (as long as I have a chip number, or to be honest, any sequence of numbers on the paper as they don't check when you apply). I still don't need to get the vet to do the ID chart and have a couple of friends that are authorised to issue pet ID passports. I haven't got any horse who I have transfered in to my name, and the only ones in my name are those who i issued the passport too in the first place. All microchip numbers carry a country code (first 3 numbers) but have you ever tried to trace or get hold of a horses lost paper work microchipped with a foreign chip? NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE.
It's all such a waste of time, I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. Rant over.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Could you & maybe Ciss not push that at the very least UK PIOS should update the microchip information when a change of owner etc is applied for, where UK PIOs do not issue their own chips. Otherwise the situation seems daft
confused.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually PIOs are supposed to update NED and confirm microchip nos when change of owner / keeper is notified but policing this -- like most other things regarding passports and microchips -- is pretty hard ATM, mainly due to lack of funds in NED, DEFRA Horse section and Trading Standards <sigh>.

The two things that are definite matters of law though, is that:

(i) It is illegal for the same horse to have more than one microchip -- so the previous owner for the animal mentioned by the OP must include the existing microchip number in the application for a duplicate/replacement passport from the original PIO that issued the passport as this previous owner is the only one entitled to do it in this case (and she should pay the bill for replacing it anyway in my opinion).

(ii) To apply for a replacement passport using any other PIO would breach the other two main sections of the Horse Paspsort regulations as this second passport would include a new unique life number (UELN) and as since 1 July 2009 it has also been against the law for any animal to be issued a second or further passport and / or a second UELN, ignoring the fact that a horse / pony already has a microchip is something your vet is forbidden to do when completing the ID form (during which he/she is now legally required to scan for a microchip).

Although microchip companies (some of which are based abroad) are meant to keep a list of which horse is linked to which number, becuase bulk orders of microchips are often bought by vets and PIOs this is not always possible hence the difficulties people might have in tracing them that way.

So to the OP I say:
Get the original owner to replace the passport using the details that they must surely have on file (hopefully they copied the passport before they posted it to you). Once they get it they can sign the change of ownership section and send it to you for forwarding on to the PIO to regsiter the change of ownership. If the microchip number is not included in the existing ID (certainly possible if the passport was isued before 1 July last year) then ask the issuing PIO how this can be included in the new passport (it may involve completion of a new ID form).

To the other poster I would say:
Do not ignore the existing microchip and do not ask your vet to do so either as if he/she does they (and you) will be breaking the law. However, as having a microchip is no proof that the animal actually has a passport (becuase supplying the information on microchips to NED was not compulsory for PIOs before the new regulations) what you should do is call NED to see if they can do a search on the microchip number (there is a facility for this) and if it has been lodged via a PIO upload then contact that PIO and ask for a duplicate passport (which they should be able to do based on the microchip number and original reg number you will have obtained from your FREE NED search). If the microchip info is not lodged on NED then it is highly likely that the pony will never have had a passport so you should obtain one from an ID-only PIO immediately (as not having a passport after 1 July 2009 is in itself a breach of the law regardless of whether the pony is being sold or not) and again the original microchip number will be included in the passport ID once the vet does the scan and compltes the ID silhouette.

Hope that clarifes the situation a little.
 
Thanks Ciss for the advice !
Not seeing horse til the weekend but wanted to make sure i had the right advice to act upon it should i go through with the sale!
 
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