Midnight yard visit - empty haynets...

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FleabittenT

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Ended up at the yard at midnight last night, dropping friend off after we went to Geoff Billington & Ollie Townend's Champions Tour (which was fab!)

Looked in on the horses and not one of them had a scrap of hay left
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My mare's in from 6pm - 6am, which means she's going at least 6 hours with nothing to eat
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Now my mare is a good doer & I really don't want her carrying any more weight going into spring.

I weigh her hay to feed a total of 1.5 - 2% of her bodyweight each day (including grazing & handful of chaff with multivit).

I split her hay between two nets & triple net it, in small hole nets, & soak it.

Any thoughts or suggestions? What can I do?

Thanks
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does she have all her hay at 6.i have a similar horse but as shes at home she has hay at 5 then last lot at 10ish so it lasts longer.otherwise not sure.
 
My lad is like that. They seem to cope just fine. If I topped up his hay every time he finished it he'd look like a rubber ball.

The chances are this wasn't a one off (although you could do another midnight flit to check). Nothing bad has happened to her so far. To be honest - try not to worry. Although I know we all do!
 
Ours are in about the same time (sometimes a bit earlier) and they are only fed at 6am ish 3 days a week. The rest of the time they are not probably fed next til 8:30am. They have never had any problems. They are on straw beds so I guess if they really wanted something they could eat a bit of that. But, even if they had different beddingi don't think it'd be an issue.

Somedays they have hay left in the morning, some days they don't. I would imagine they do sleep at some point and I don't think 6 hrs is really that long for them not to eat so i wouldn't worry yourself.

Ours don't get haynets though, just 3 to 4 slices on the floor so could be having a bit more than yours are?
 
I have my horses at home so I pop out about 9pm/10pm and give them another haynet, but I bet if I went out again at midnight they would have finished that as well
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There is only so much you can do, and if they are looking ok, I'm sure they are fine, I know mine are
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I wouldn't worry they dont have to be eating 24hours a day, if they did they would never sleep and be very grumpy horses
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I think you are doing everything you can.
 
Thanks all

Would love to feed some hay later in the evening but yard is a 15 min drive, think OH would prob leave me if I started doing 3 trips a day
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You're right, she's been in this routine for a few years & not keeled over yet, so I'll stop worrying, I think!
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I worry about this all the time too, especially as people have said to me my horse should not be left without hay for more tha 4 hours. I'm doing all the same things as you and shes still big, she lives off fresh air. I tried puttig more in and she just got bigger so now I give her a net at 8.30 and if she eats it all at once and has nothing it will just have to be. I'm sure its much more unhealthy for them to be overweight than to stand waiting for hay. I thought having a good doer would be easier!
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Our fell lives on thin air. I'm fairly sure with the amount of hay she gets in her evening net its gone by 10pm. But she gets another in the morning around 6am and doesn't eat it, preferring to hang over the door watching the YO do the other horses impatiently as she just wants out to the field. So it obviously isn't killing her!

I don't think there is any balance garunteed to work. You can't feed adlib to a good doer without making them fat!
 
I brought mine in yesterday at 3 then went back up at half 6/7 and the evening size net I had put up was almost finished!! I filled it back up for him as it was a one off (I normally bring him in later in evening) but I won't be making his nets any bigger or going up to out more in later. He gets the same amount every evening so if he finishes it in a few hours then thats tough for him!! He would end up rolling to the field otherwise!!
 
Although as you say she has been like this for a while and hasn't suffered any ill health, horses should have constant access to forage where possible to avoid stomach ulcers etc. I know it is difficult, but if you can stretch the time period of them being with food out, it can help and lessen the risks! A few ideas are:

*Split the hay into 2 or three nets, and hang them around the stable so it takes them longer to eat them.
*Get the teeny holed nets, and double net them, so they have to work to get the hay out.
*Feed her slightly more, but soak it for several hours so it has very little nutritional value left.

I'm lucky, my horses have always self regulated, and not really been "fatties", so I feed ad lib off the floor, and there is always some left in the morning
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the way i make raff eat slower is to double net it in small holed nets, and twist them round and round after hanging them up so they are as 'tight' as possible.the first half of the haynet is very hard to eat. do that with 2 or 3 haynets worth.

and i also make sure he has other stuff to occupy him. he has a trickle ball with some nuts and chopped carrots (carrots make sure the nuts come out slower) and he has a likit hanging from the ceiling so it's almost impossible to get hold of to lick.
 
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I wouldnt worry! its up them if they scoff it and she isnt starving by the sounds of things at all

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I think you are handing too much intelligence to your horse there! They arent going to go oh this is all I have for the night and its best for my gut function if I spread it out are they?

OP would more soaked hay really add weight? I dont know your horse obviously so only you can say this.

I have to say I would prefer a horse to have constant forage and exercise the weight off. I do have a good doer myself but find he is fine if in good work to have add lib good unsoaked hay., is less rugs a possibility?

I do understand its maybe harder if they arent at home to do multiple nets. If me I think I might pop down the next couple of evenings to see if I could work out what time she is finishing. Ie its different if its finished at 9pm or midnight. IMO cbfan no horse should have an empty haynet from 6pm till morning.
 
I must be soft as I always feel bad if there isn't any haylage left in the morning, I give them loads and both are good doers, I just work them harder to loose weight.
 
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I have to say I would prefer a horse to have constant forage and exercise the weight off. I do have a good doer myself but find he is fine if in good work to have add lib good unsoaked hay., is less rugs a possibility?

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I do worry about the effects of not having constant access to forage, hence the post.

But tbh I'm equally concerned about not having an overweight animal & am reluctant to feed a very good doer more than 1.5 - 2% of her bodyweight a day.

Hay is currently weighed dry, soaked while I'm at work all day and triple-netted in small holed nets (which is a real pain!).

I split it into 2 nets, one on each side of the stable, so I can lift them more easily when soaked.

She's in a l/w rug with no fill all winter, just to keep her clean for riding (& she's grey).

Once the clocks go, we can hack in the evenings & she'll be worked harder. At the moment, we hire a school twice a week (can't afford more at £10 a go) & hack at weekends.

Feel like I'm stuck between a rock & a hard place!

Sounds like I'm not the only one though
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Some people at my yard feed up and go home at 5pm, and the horses are usually fed again at 7:30-8am. I get down later and have seen empty nets in numerous stables by 7-8pm. I really wouldn't worry - of the horses with empty nets, not one is over its door asking for more - they're usually snoozing or maybe one would try its luck if it saw a person and ask for more, but wouldn't get it.

I seriously wouldn't worry at all - the vast majority of horses, certainly on livery yards, all have this same kind of routine (some livery yards 'do up' as early as 4pm and start again at 7am, so I'd imagine some horses are stood for 12 hours without food) and will run out of hay/haylage late evening. I've never seen one suffering ill effects and it certainly doesn't sound like your horse is suffering or is malnourished.

To add to this, although of course in their natural environment horses would be free to eat when they wanted, they wouldn't be getting all the nutrients and benefits that they get, year round, from all the stuff we feed them. So although it may not seem natural to leave them without hay for a number of hours, it's what they have adapted to and they are still getting better quality nutrition (certainly at this time of year!) than what they would be in their 'natural' environment!!

PLEASE don't feed your horse any more - if she's a good doer the last thing you want is to be going into spring with a belly!!
 
i got to the yard last night just after 6 and the part liveries had all finished or near enough finished their hay for the night - not to be fed again til 8am. I do think thats too long. I feed one big haynet of haylage when i put him to bed which is at about 7, he normally eats it all but sometimes there is a little left in the morning. I personally wouldnt worry about them running out of hay at midnight though they do like to have a sleep at night
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although I do know there are the arguments of having constant access to forage etc
 
Well I was always of the belief of not having my horse without forage for long periods and so would feed him ad lib...hence him always carrying too much weigth despite plenty of long distance exercise with him...he then got laminitis in August last year and is only now ready to be very slowly brought back into work...damn hard lesson to learn!
When he was on box rest the vet said he was to have 4 pads of small bale hay during the day and 3 pads at night and that was it. Despite triple netting it he was still left for long periods with nothing to eat and the vet seemed to think that this was better than laminitis getting worse.
So now he is back out on his muddy field he is fed more or less the same amount in order to stabilise his weight now he has lost loads and when he runs out that is it.
It is really hard to do because I worry about ulcers...but there is no way I would want him or me to go through the hell of laminitis again...so he has to wait until he gets his next lot from me.
 
it certainly isnt ideal but a lot of horses end up in the same situation! This is why I give hay at 4pm and 10pm, that way they always have some left over and their guts are still working..........not practical when you are in livery though!

Some horses at my old lovery yard ran out of hay at 6-7pm going 12-13 hours without hay which is really wrong!
 
Could you replace the hay with some poorer quality stuff?
If it is soaked long enough you should really be able to feed ad lib. My lami pony lost weight on box rest and on ad lib soaked hay.
Can you cut out the hard feed and up the hay?

As well as stomach ulcers etc I would worry just as much about boredom the the problem that can arise from that.
 
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Well I was always of the belief of not having my horse without forage for long periods and so would feed him ad lib...hence him always carrying too much weigth despite plenty of long distance exercise with him...he then got laminitis in August last year and is only now ready to be very slowly brought back into work...damn hard lesson to learn!
When he was on box rest the vet said he was to have 4 pads of small bale hay during the day and 3 pads at night and that was it. Despite triple netting it he was still left for long periods with nothing to eat and the vet seemed to think that this was better than laminitis getting worse.
So now he is back out on his muddy field he is fed more or less the same amount in order to stabilise his weight now he has lost loads and when he runs out that is it.
It is really hard to do because I worry about ulcers...but there is no way I would want him or me to go through the hell of laminitis again...so he has to wait until he gets his next lot from me.

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I thought that was due to the fact that you couoldn't soak your hay though. OP can and does soak so should be able to give more hay
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qr- if you soak the hay for a few hours there is minimal energy left so you can feed as much as you want! It is excess energy that puts weight on.

The stomach continually produces acid and will attack the stomach lining in the absence of food. The longer the time without food the more chance of it happening and the more severe the problem. Food exits the stomach after 1-1.5 hours, so 6 hours without food is not adviseable. 65%+ of leisure horses have been shown to have stomach ulcers.
 
[quoteI thought that was due to the fact that you couoldn't soak your hay though. OP can and does soak so should be able to give more hay
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Thanks again all, afraid I can't agree with this though
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Latest research from Lami Trust shows soaking even for prolonged periods doesn't reduce water soluable carbs (sugars) to 'safe' rates (i.e under 10%).

I do still soak but would be reluctant to up hay for this reason.

The hay is last year's so about as low nutritionally as I can find (cheaper too!)

The only hard feed she gets is a small handful of hi-fi lite with a multipurpose vit/min & joint supplement (due to spavin in hock). Nothing else, so can't really cut this any further.

It's all a balancing act I guess
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But if you want to minimise weight gain it is about keeping overall energy down, not necessarily just sugar. Agreed, a low sugar diet is better but if you want low sugar AND low energy, feed soaked haylage!
 
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[quoteI thought that was due to the fact that you couoldn't soak your hay though. OP can and does soak so should be able to give more hay
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Thanks again all, afraid I can't agree with this though
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Latest research from Lami Trust shows soaking even for prolonged periods doesn't reduce water soluable carbs (sugars) to 'safe' rates (i.e under 10%).

I do still soak but would be reluctant to up hay for this reason.

The hay is last year's so about as low nutritionally as I can find (cheaper too!)

The only hard feed she gets is a small handful of hi-fi lite with a multipurpose vit/min & joint supplement (due to spavin in hock). Nothing else, so can't really cut this any further.

It's all a balancing act I guess
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To be fair I'm pretty sure the Lami Trust wouldn't agree with keeping a horse without any forage for 6 hours.
 
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Latest research from Lami Trust shows soaking even for prolonged periods doesn't reduce water soluable carbs (sugars) to 'safe' rates (i.e under 10%).

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Do you have a link to that research?
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...or any further references?

If the hay is last years, of low nutritional value, and it's soaked throughout the day then I really can't see the problem with giving your horse more.
 
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