Midnight yard visit - empty haynets...

Difficult - My hay supplier is a farmer and always puts aside older, tougher stalkier hay for me. This year some of it was more like straw. I keep mine at home and are normaly out 24/7. They are fed about 6- 7am, 12 / 1pm (on weekends and working at home days) then again at about 5 or 6 and a fianal lot at about 11 when the dog goes out for her last tiddle. There is very little grass but probably enough for then to nibble something in between hay feeds.

If they have to be in I use double nets scrunched up realy realy tight. When one of mine was on box rest I soaked. Never had a prob witrh laminitus depsite having 3 who are all slighty rotund! Can you cut her feed down any more? cut out carrots? Realy cant offer any more advice apart from perhaps bringing her in and giving her last hay net later in the evening.
 
Sorry but imo if a horse needs hay and you cant afford it then you shouldnt own a horse. If the horse doesnt need it because it has access to grass then thats a different matter but withholding forage due to its cost is not a valid reason. Aside from grass, hay is the cheapest way to feed a horse and a horse shouldnt have to 'make do' with something that is vital to its health and well being.
 
well that isnt acceptable at all IMO. hay is quite an important thing to budget for if you are going to keep a horse.

OP yup, I believe that original studies on soaking was done on short chopped hay which showed it worked, but long, normal hay it is less able to soak out the sugars, which makes sense tbh.

It is a balancing act, like pottamus, I think it depends what is best for your horse at the time, ie if your horse currently doesnt have lami or isnt lami prone just a good doer then more hay less chance of ulcers. If lami prone it is different.

Can you get hold of some late cut hay? From a feeding point of view for mine I much prefer it when we get our hay cut in september and its a bit ropey! than june which is this years. Or hay over a year old?

In summary, all you can do is your best
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you know your horse best and we all try and do the best we can and make the right decisions.
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Hay is expencive this time of year £4-5 per bale so those that can afford to give plenty of hay do, those have to watch the pennies make do as they can.

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That's ridiculous! Forage is a vital component of an equine diet and should be the very first thing you budget for, not the last!!!
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[quoteI thought that was due to the fact that you couoldn't soak your hay though. OP can and does soak so should be able to give more hay
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Thanks again all, afraid I can't agree with this though
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Latest research from Lami Trust shows soaking even for prolonged periods doesn't reduce water soluable carbs (sugars) to 'safe' rates (i.e under 10%).

I do still soak but would be reluctant to up hay for this reason.

The hay is last year's so about as low nutritionally as I can find (cheaper too!)

The only hard feed she gets is a small handful of hi-fi lite with a multipurpose vit/min & joint supplement (due to spavin in hock). Nothing else, so can't really cut this any further.



It's all a balancing act I guess
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get hold of some good quality oat straw and add some of that to the hay, she can then have a nibble without piling on the weight - from what you say I wouldn't be panicking though - my good doer welsh has a straw bed so once he's finished his hay ration of about 9kg per night he has a nibble at the clean straw, if they have good teeth and access to plenty of water there should be no problem.....
 
I second the oat straw to bulk out your nets, I would also look to see how much hay is on the floor around the net as she will eat every scrap of this if she is hungry. When our boy had lami my vet told me to throw his 1 pad of hay into his bed to make him work for it - have to admit I couldnt do it but it did make me aware of watching what is left on the floor - if there is anything there then she isnt going hungry.
 
I wouldn't be happy with her spending at least 6hrs (and quite probably more - if she's coming in at 6 she'll prob have finished her nets by 10pm) wiht no food.

Just because others do it doesn't make it right. Horses DON'T sleep for hours at a time - they sleep about 4hrs a day, split into 20min stretches. She's NOT going to be spending the majoirty of those food-free hours asleep!

I too would mix your hay in with good quality straw. Our VERY laminitic pony got 50/50 soaked hay and good quality straw. He didn't like the straw and spent the majoirty of the time picking the hay strands out - slowed him down enough that he didn't even need it netted!
 
No help with the OP question but yard I used to be at was another where a lot of the full liveries would have finished their hay by 6 - 7pm.
 
Here is an article about the new research on soaked hay:

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2009/07/047.shtml

Apparently, the initial research on soaking hay was carried out on chopped hay soaked in large quantities of water and this did intend result in considerable reduction in sugar levels. However, most horse owners use long hay and soak it in small quantities of water (ie stuffing a net into a dustbin of water) and the latest studies show that this is not very effective in removing the sugars. Even with prolonged soaking, very few of the hay samples studied came in under the 10% water soluble carbohydrate threshold which is thought to be that which is safe for laminitics.

Their advice is not to rely on soaking as a foolproof way of creating hay with safe sugar levels but instead to GET YOUR FORAGE ANALYSED and pick a type with a low sugar content.
 
When my horse first came from Ireland I couldnt fill him--just kept giving him more hay until his appetite settled.
He has ad lib hay at night--sometimes he eats a lot other nights he eats less and there can be quite a bit left
He has never been a fatty so perhaps I am lucky but he is not greedy fed like that.
I would be concerned about empty nets for long periods of time.
 
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Latest research from Lami Trust shows soaking even for prolonged periods doesn't reduce water soluable carbs (sugars) to 'safe' rates (i.e under 10%).

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Do you have a link to that research?
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...or any further references?

If the hay is last years, of low nutritional value, and it's soaked throughout the day then I really can't see the problem with giving your horse more.

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This
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although being last years hay doesn't automatically make it low nutritionally. I have used previous yrs hay before that has still been as potent.
As far as soaking is concerned...I have always had to soak hay for my fatties and IME hay does lose nutritional value after soaking. I use the same hay (dry) to keep weight on my tb as I do (soaked) for my lami prone pony who has to be kept on the verge of underweight.
 
The link to an article about the research is in my post above.

If you are relying on the soaking method, then it would be wise to get the hay analysed first, to ascertain that it not a high sugar variety, in which case the soaking may not be sufficient to bring the sugar levels down far enough to make it safe for laminitics. Also ensure the hay is soaked in as large a volume of water as possible (ie avoid the haynet stuffed in a dustbin of water setup).

Also remember, that although soaking reduces the calorie level, it doesn't make the hay calorie free.
 
Do you think I could make a lot of money if I get started on a calorie free hay now?
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and yes thats the article I was thinking of TGM
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Could you ask whoever does the late night check to put a haynet in for her so she can have half her hay whenever she comes in and the other half later? There's one livery at my yard that doesn't leave before 9pm and the YO does a last check at 11ish so any fatties get hayed then.
 
i wouldnt worry.

one of mine is the same, however, she is out on good grass, so when possible i leave her for an hour or two when she comes in then put her hay in, it lasts much longer this way and she settles down and sleeps for a while.
 
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