Milk test experts....

ElleSkywalkingintheair

ElleSkywalkingintheair

As excited as Kitty about to be a bridesmaid
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A couple of questions if you would be so lovely as to answer, applogises if they have been asked before :D

1) Which pH and calcium strips do I need, I seem to remember people saying last year that some don't go down low enough? PM websites etc if worried about advertising.

2) What are the 'magic numbers' I am looking for?!

3) Where do I get the special water? Is it de-inoised water??!!

4) Has any one had exeriances where the milk test has been wrong, either because a mare wasn't at the right level & sneaked a foal out or that once levels were right it didn't foal within 24-48 hours?

5) Anything else I need to know? What is best to collect milk in?

Definaltely going to give testing a go this year, but thinking mare isn't going to let me milk her too much so it will be a only if I think she is seriously considering it type event, possibly as far along as waiting till she is dripping milk!!

Also she has a camera in stable, me watching thorough-out day & night & paddock outside of my house so am not relying on milk testing alone, just as an 'its iminant (sp)' indicator.

Thanks all, nice cup of tea & biscuits for all :D
 
ElleSkywalker said:
A couple of questions if you would be so lovely as to answer, applogises if they have been asked before :D

1) Which pH and calcium strips do I need, I seem to remember people saying last year that some don't go down low enough? PM websites etc if worried about advertising.
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You need aquachek strips. There is another company who makes ones low enough but I can't remember their name. You need the pH to go down to 6.2 or lower and the calcium (hardness) to go up to 1000

2) What are the 'magic numbers' I am looking for?!
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6.2pH or lower, 800 calcium; mare should foal within 24 hours. Pilot error is the usual reason for mares not foaling at these levels, so don't fool yourself, read the colours accurately :)

3) Where do I get the special water? Is it de-inoised water??!!
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Distilled water you need. Hardware stores, some supermarkets, garages.

4) Has any one had exeriances where the milk test has been wrong, either because a mare wasn't at the right level & sneaked a foal out or that once levels were right it didn't foal within 24-48 hours?
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Never have I had one go early. Once I've had one be at foaling time for longer than normal but she was on drugs at the time so we put it down to them interfering with the test results. Everyone else is good and foal usually within 24 hours.

5) Anything else I need to know? What is best to collect milk in?
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I use 10cc syringes these days as I find it's easy to have one loaded up with water, take one to get the milk from the mare, squirt the water into the milk one, shake and test. Easy. Other people use old 35mm film canisters, egg cups, etc

Definaltely going to give testing a go this year, but thinking mare isn't going to let me milk her too much so it will be a only if I think she is seriously considering it type event, possibly as far along as waiting till she is dripping milk!!
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Any mare who come here who have never been milk tested before, I spend a lot of time prepping them for it weeks before any bag shows signs of appearing. I've never had one not accept it in the end although I've had some not like it in the beginning. It's just perseverance and you mustn't tickle or pussyfoot around, just go and do it firmly but gently.
 
I'll add my bit, I was in your situation last year, and I did a lot of researching of milk testing. I did not really believe it would be totally accurate but it was.
I had my own mare and another to foal. The other owner wasn't keen so I left her mare and just did my own. Re. the milking she was fine, just got someone to hold her to begin with and she got used to it. You literally take a few drops. I used an old baby bottle to milk into.
For 2 weeks (from about 320days) the calcium gradually crept up. The mare was showing every sign of foaling soonish. She was dripping milk some days, very restless, tail head soft etc etc. But pH was still high. Anyway, one day I did the test in the morning and the pH had suddenly dropped right down, Calcium was right up too. The pH was clear orange with no red, totally different to before. I was in shock that it had finally worked. However, she held on all that night, spent about 2 hours walking circles in the early hours but stopped at first light. Went back into the field and stomped round all day, came in and started up again that night, foaled at 1am.
The other mare, I hadn't tested until the final day. She was actually due about 2-3 weeks before my mare but was showing no signs. On the last day, she started dripping milk so I tested it. The test strip was identical to my own mares: high Ca, low pH. She foaled that night too.
Conclusion: milk testing works brilliantly, but it can take 36 hours for them to foal.
 
Humm, there seems to be lots of aquachek strips, and they don't seem to have the levels on them, could one of you pm me the name of the right strips (red, yellow, bromine, 3 in 1, 5 in 1, who knew swimming pools could be so varied!!! :D )
 
I tested every other day fron 320, then daily and then twice daily.

My mare foaled on a wed night.

On the wed morning there was a tiny movement from the long term base values, so I felt it was safe to go out for the day. I tested teatime and there was still a bit more movement, tested again at 10pm and still more but no where near 6.2, I has a hunch that although the milk test was suggesting 48 - 72 hours that I should watch her carefull overnight. She foaled at 4.10am just as dawn was breaking. she was 346 days, 17yr old maiden.

I managed to use 1ml milk to 3ml water in a shot glass, so not really taking any quantity from the mare
 
Just a thought, is it wise to start taking milk from mare almost a month before she foals. Even such small amounts. Surely the action of pulling on the udder to obtain the milk is a bit iffy. I get a little concerned if mine start dripping milk more than a few days before foaling. Am I wrong here.
 
ribbons said:
Just a thought, is it wise to start taking milk from mare almost a month before she foals. Even such small amounts. Surely the action of pulling on the udder to obtain the milk is a bit iffy. I get a little concerned if mine start dripping milk more than a few days before foaling. Am I wrong here.
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I don't know anyone who "milks" (it's not milk btw, it's yellow watery fluid until the last couple of days) a month before the mare foals but if someone did, it still wouldn't alarm me.

Because I've been milk testing my mares for years now I know when they are really close so I only test them a few days before they foal. I would never go back to not milk testing and all those wasted hours and lack of sleep so milk testing works for me.

You do what you feel comfortable doing. It doesn't make any difference to anyone else whether you choose to milk test or not, only to you.
 
I wasn't criticising at all. Apololgies if I appeared to be.
Thistle mentioned she started milk testing 26 days before mare foaled. I have never milk tested, nor do I know anyone who does so I know nothing about it. I merely wondered about the wisdom of encouraging milk production so early. I understand you only take a tiny amount but am thinking that the manipulation of the bag in order to obtain even a few drop could interfere with the natural process of producing the correct thing at the right time. Do we know for sure it has no adverse effect on colostrum production.
Please do not think I am arguing against this practice because I am not. I would prefer to do it myself rather than sit up endlessly on foal watch, but I obviously have some concerns or I would be doing it already. So I am appreciating this thread and the experience of people who have done it for years and am hoping for any absolute facts that it does no harm to correct milk production. Then I will have a go my self, and hopefully get some sleep ha ha.
Again, please do not take my participation in this subject as opposing milk testing. Just no actual experience of it, and cautious.
 
ribbons said:
Again, please do not take my participation in this subject as opposing milk testing. Just no actual experience of it, and cautious.
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Last year I started a long debate about milk testing on here, you can search for it prob.

I was cautious like you, but in the end went ahead. You literally take 1-2ml per day. To begin with I did alternate days, the last week or so I tested daily, at the very end I tested twice a day. So in total prob. took about 30ml from the mare. The foal will drink litres of milk from day 1, the proportion taken is negligible.

My reasoning was that if there was a way I could guarantee attending the delivery, I would do it, because that's when things go wrong. I physically wasn't able to stay up every night for weeks as I have a job and a family etc. etc. So, for me milk testing was the answer.

The two mares I foaled last year, one mare was tested and one wasn't. The foal of the mare which had been tested had full immunity from colostrum. The other foal, of the untested mare, needed a plasma transfusion. I know this is hardly a statistically sig. finding, but worth mentioning.
 
Ribbons I didn't take your questions as criticism but even if I had it's of no concern to me what someone chooses to do or not do. As I mentioned the "milk" you take prior to a few days before foaling is not in fact milk at all. It is more like a serum-type fluid. Nothing alters the course of colostrum production, her hormones control when she needs to start producing it. Colostrum only starts production a few hours before foaling and that doesn't change whether you take some fluid from her or whether she drips fluid for a week before she foals or whether she doesn't even bag up till the morning of foaling. Colostrum is easily identifiable and it is not the fluid you are taking from her in the days leading up to her foaling. Hope that helps you understand it a bit more but you know as I've said before if you don't understand it enough or you don't like the thought of doing it then don't do it :)

PS. all respectable breeders will desensitise their mares to having their udders touched prior to foaling :)
 
AnShanDan, thank you for your reply, most interesting and helpful.
Spring Feather, thankyou also for your reply, I find myself apologising yet again if it was my uncertainty on the subject that prompted your brusque and somewhat condescending response, but maybe that's just your way.
I consider myself a respectable and responsible breeder and always accustom all mares to having their bag handled, particularly maidens, in order that they are not ticklish or very sensitive when a new foal try's to suckle. I have also on several occasions assisted people who have not done this, to reunite a foal and rejecting mare, and am quite proficient at milking a mare who doesn't want her bag touched in order to feed colostrum to foal before it's production stops while we are getting her to accept foal sucking.
However I have only been breeding for 36 years so am still learning. I am also the first to admit that sometimes I can be a little resistant to different ways of doing things, as my daughter often points out.
The thread was full of valuable info on when and how to milk test, but I wanted some input on the implicationsof doing so, as research and discussions I have had with breeding professionals often advises against it. You and others have provided that input. Thank you for that.
 
Yes there's been lots of research done on mares milk and numerous papers and books have been published about the subject over the last 30 years. It's quite fascinating, or at least I think so. For those who'd rather not milk their mares but who also don't want to be staying awake for sometimes weeks waiting for the foals to arrive, maybe you'd prefer to milk taste instead as you only need a tiny drip for that :p I remembered this discussion on it a couple of years ago and might be of interest should it take your fancy lol http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=207462&highlight=IYE
 
I plan to milk test my mare as it's my first foal and I am doing everything that I can do like a classic first-time Mum :-) Luckily it will be my mare's fourth so she is not fussing half as much as me!

I have carefully been watching her bagging up and I have to admit that I do quite bit of fondling to check how the bag is coming along which she doesn't mind in the slightest. She is due the first week in May and over the last fortnight I have occasionally had a few drops of very watery liquid come out without me really trying to milk her, I was just trying to see the end of the teat really, but she's not leaking and there is no sign of wax. However, 5 days ago I got a blob of a very thick, clotted cream coloured fluid on my finger.

That seems a bit weird doesn't it?
 
chrissie1 said:
Don't think we did it quite right, but while the ph didn't shift the calcium was sky high at 6.30 last night. Foaled at 11 last night. Brilliant!!!!!
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Congratulations :) You may not have done anything wrong with your testing. I have a mare who will drop pH dramatically within a matter of a couple of hours. The calcium is almost always the first thing to move higher and the pH then starts to drop. Had you tested her at 10pm I suspect your pH would have dropped significantly. Regardless I'm happy it worked for you.
 
We planned to restest after reading a link that said to immerse it longer than the 15 seconds stated on the pack. However by 9.30 it was becoming obvious that we weren't going to get the chance.

I remember using the original Predicta Foal kits that came in a box from the USA and had to come through the vet, this must have been in about the mid 1980's. They cost a fortune, so you tended to use them sparingly to say the least!

edited because evidently I can't type and think at the same time
 
With the Aquachek strips you just dip them in for a second and then you're supposed to wait 15 secs for them to dry, but I've always found the moment you bring them out of the liquid you can tell what your colours are. I've found that if you place the strip on a wooden table or suchlike, that you get your colour immediately.

I remember those Predicta kits and yes they were very expensive. Thank goodness someone came up with the swimming pool strips and distilled water as that was what made testing financially viable to everyone.
 
Hi

I was wondering how much milk you use to the amount of water? I purchased my mare back in February and nobody knew she was in foal, but low and behold she is! lol anyway she has bagged up and has started to become restless so I was hoping to try the milk testing to try and determine when we will have our new bundle of joy.
 
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