Misconceptions about harness racing?

I wouldn't say every yard in the world trains on concrete or tarmac at all. My boss has a track made of cinders laid in the middle of a grass field, and my OH has a red clay type surface laid in the middle of a grass field!

I must admit the more positive responses and queries have come from those of you who aren't involved. Lee, I'm not here to debate the rules and the pros and cons of partbred racing. The sport is what is is, I want to find out what we need to do to take the sport to a wider audience. Helping those within the sport isn't really my priority, that's an aside that will come from increased public support and increased revenue.

Apologies for any spelling mistakes, on my phone in work!

Thanks for the replies everyone, if anyone wants to PM me to find out if they're near to a track feel free.
 
lee1984 said:
As for damage to there legs, every training yard in the world train on concrete/tarmac these horses are bred for this.
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I'll disagree with that point Lee, we train solely on the grass. The only time ours go on the road is if they're being ridden out on a hack.

It's also why we've not got to the races this year as the ground has been so bad but with so many of the South Wales / Hereford meetings being cancelled we'd not have been out much anyway :(
 
lee1984 said:
Its the same thing thats been answered many times in the last few days,

Yes for theres plenty of muppets running horses in to the ground st8 from the field with no training whatsoever, Its always the same tar them all to the same brush,

The bearing rain its an over-check rain and its there for a reason and a good reason to stop the horse shaking its head and catching on the shalfs of the sulky not something you want to happen at 30+ mph regardless to the surface your racing on.

As for damage to there legs, every training yard in the world train on concrete/tarmac these horses are bred for this.
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Sorry didnt realise i was supposed to read every thread on driving before i posted. TBs are bred for racing, doesnt mean they last long at it. Every yard in the world trains on tarmac, Why dont the train on tracks like racehorses?
So its an overcheck rein, well i would say its not appropriate tack for driving in hilly areas, the horses i see always look uncomfortable in their head carriage.
 
SarahThomas said:
I wouldn't say every yard in the world trains on concrete or tarmac at all. My boss has a track made of cinders laid in the middle of a grass field, and my OH has a red clay type surface laid in the middle of a grass field!

I must admit the more positive responses and queries have come from those of you who aren't involved. Lee, I'm not here to debate the rules and the pros and cons of partbred racing. The sport is what is is, I want to find out what we need to do to take the sport to a wider audience. Helping those within the sport isn't really my priority, that's an aside that will come from increased public support and increased revenue.

Apologies for any spelling mistakes, on my phone in work!

Thanks for the replies everyone, if anyone wants to PM me to find out if they're near to a track feel free.
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I think you misunderstood, I asked Why isnt there any part bred racing allowed on the tracks, its was just another option to adding to the sport.

as for training on hard surface's if you got the access to train on grass/clay then whynot. but theres still alot of yard training on concrete/tarmac.
 
lee1984 said:
I think you misunderstood, I asked Why isnt there any part bred racing allowed on the tracks, its was just another option to adding to the sport.

as for training on hard surface's if you got the access to train on grass/clay then whynot. but theres still alot of yard training on concrete/tarmac.
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Ahh so its lee who needs educating, theres 2 people already who dont train on concrete and thats just on hho!
 
I used to live in Australia and it was huge, great fun. Evening meets sort of like greyhound racing over here - fun even if you knew nothing about it and food and drinks and so on.

Over here I went once and the poines were wearing bearing reins, awful and I thought they were illegal.
 
Clodagh said:
I used to live in Australia and it was huge, great fun. Evening meets sort of like greyhound racing over here - fun even if you knew nothing about it and food and drinks and so on.

Over here I went once and the poines were wearing bearing reins, awful and I thought they were illegal.
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So they manged fine in australia without them?
 
Every yard in the world trains on tarmac, Why dont the train on tracks like racehorses?

Not allowed so you wont see any harness racing at epsom ect, however you would think why those tracks aint being used for tb racing they would allow other to train on, but I guess it comes down to money.

So its an overcheck rein, well i would say its not appropriate tack for driving in hilly areas, the horses i see always look uncomfortable in their head carriage.

Yeah I agree with you on hilly areas, but harness racing is on the flats the overcheck rain is unclipped when not racing
 
lee1984 said:
Every yard in the world trains on tarmac, Why dont the train on tracks like racehorses?

Not allowed so you wont see any harness racing at epsom ect, however you would think why those tracks aint being used for tb racing they would allow other to train on, but I guess it comes down to money.

So its an overcheck rein, well i would say its not appropriate tack for driving in hilly areas, the horses i see always look uncomfortable in their head carriage.

Yeah I agree with you on hilly areas, but harness racing is on the flats the overcheck rain is unclipped when not racing
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No its not unclipped i see them out and about all the time wearing them and we are a very hilly area.
'Not allowed so you wont see any harness racing at epsom ect.'Racehorse trainers train on tracks at their farm, i said 'tracks' not racecourses.
 
I'm going to show my ignorance and ask 'what is a bearing rein?'. I guess you mean the overcheck? If so, it's purpose is to help the horse with it's balance. When fitted correctly they don't hold the horse's head in an unnatural position, but at a height that the horse would naturally hold it's head when travelling at speed. That said, not everyone fits them correctly! I'm not here to defend the sport's flaws, I know it's not perfect. Generally the techniques that are used are harmless, it's when people start misusing them that problems occur. A horse will soon let you know if it's not happy with it's overcheck I can assure you!

Perhaps more time should be spent at the races showing people the harness and how to put it on correctly etc, like a demo on tacking up prior to the racing. The crowd would then be able to understand how each piece assists the horse.
 
weebarney said:
So they manged fine in australia without them?
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Well I don't remember them wearing them, at least not with their heads stuck in the air like something out of Black Beauty like they were here. It seemed odd to me, it must be harder to pull if you can't put your head down or even level with your withers.
I see it isn't called a bearing rein, but an overcheck, it still looked nasty to me and put me off.
 
weebarney said:
No its not unclipped i see them out and about all the time wearing them and we are a very hilly area.
'Not allowed so you wont see any harness racing at epsom ect.'Racehorse trainers train on tracks at their farm, i said 'tracks' not racecourses.
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I cant talk for everyone that uses them, just like some racing them at 9 month old what is bang out of order but it happens.

Well if you aint GOT access to a track, What do you do then?
 
lee1984 said:
If you got the option to ride on a bridleway or the road what would you chose?

Its good they have the access to other then concrete.
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Its more the fact you say everone in the world trains on concrete, you aint going to gain supporters by making things up! So why do more people not set up tracks in their fields ? I know why they dont round here cos they have most of them are kept on allotments.
 
Clodagh said:
Well I don't remember them wearing them, at least not with their heads stuck in the air like something out of Black Beauty like they were here. It seemed odd to me, it must be harder to pull if you can't put your head down or even level with your withers.
I see it isn't called a bearing rein, but an overcheck, it still looked nasty to me and put me off.
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As the other lady said its for balance and to stop them swinging there head, iv seen other countrys not using overcheck rain but a rain that attatched to the girth to under the bridle aint got a clue what the idear of thats for.
 
Hi Sarah!

Good to see the usual misconceptions abound ;)

Lee - all of the drivers I know that race under rules train on grass, some have all weathers (jammy beggars) and some train on "off road" tracks.

As Sarah says the overcheck is different to the bearing rein and is usually loosed off when not required i.e. when we work at home we will especially with the older horses only use the over check and hopples when doing fast work, with the youngsters they need to learn how to use and accept it so they will have it on whilst working until it comes to their cool down when it's removed so that they can relax fully and walk. Without it the risk of a horse dropping it's head to the floor to evade and causing an accident is much higher, unlike when being ridden you can't use your legs to discourage such behaviour so we have to use aids which many without understanding why and how they work may see as unnecessary / cruel. The hopples are another such aid.

With regard to getting more people there... advertising and education I think do need to be the starting point.
The meeting at Hereford Racecourse was well attended, it's such a shame there haven't been more racecourses willing to allow their use. I know Kempton was used a couple of times and the loss of the series at Wolverhampton was a real shame.

I do think Lord Lipsey and Stella Havard have been great ambassadors for the sport over the years.
 
weebarney said:
Its more the fact you say everone in the world trains on concrete, you aint going to gain supporters by making things up! So why do more people not set up tracks in their fields ? I know why they dont round here cos they have most of them are kept on allotments.
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I apologise I worded it wrong, possibly cant get planning permission, I dont know

Well thats them isit it, not everyone is the same.
 
Lanky Loll said:
Hi Sarah!

As Sarah says the overcheck is different to the bearing rein and is usually loosed off when not required i.e. when we work at home we will especially with the older horses only use the over check and hopples when doing fast work, with the youngsters they need to learn how to use and accept it so they will have it on whilst working until it comes to their cool down when it's removed so that they can relax fully and walk. Without it the risk of a horse dropping it's head to the floor to evade and causing an accident is much higher, unlike when being ridden you can't use your legs to discourage such behaviour so we have to use aids which many without understanding why and how they work may see as unnecessary / cruel. The hopples are another such aid.

.
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I know I am banging on - sorry - but why don't you need them for normal driving then?
 
Lanky Loll said:
Hi Sarah!

Good to see the usual misconceptions abound ;)

Lee - all of the drivers I know that race under rules train on grass, some have all weathers (jammy beggars) and some train on "off road" tracks.

As Sarah says the overcheck is different to the bearing rein and is usually loosed off when not required i.e. when we work at home we will especially with the older horses only use the over check and hopples when doing fast work, with the youngsters they need to learn how to use and accept it so they will have it on whilst working until it comes to their cool down when it's removed so that they can relax fully and walk. Without it the risk of a horse dropping it's head to the floor to evade and causing an accident is much higher, unlike when being ridden you can't use your legs to discourage such behaviour so we have to use aids which many without understanding why and how they work may see as unnecessary / cruel. The hopples are another such aid.

With regard to getting more people there... advertising and education I think do need to be the starting point.
The meeting at Hereford Racecourse was well attended, it's such a shame there haven't been more racecourses willing to allow their use. I know Kempton was used a couple of times and the loss of the series at Wolverhampton was a real shame.

I do think Lord Lipsey and Stella Havard have been great ambassadors for the sport over the years.
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The uk a lot more tracks then Ireland, west cork track is a bog pretty much

Im all for moving of the roads on to the tracks as said tho if theres no tracks theres no options.
 
lee1984 said:
The uk a lot more tracks then Ireland, west cork track is a bog pretty much

Im all for moving of the roads on to the tracks as said tho if theres no tracks theres no options.
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Sorry Lee - by off road I mean forestry commission type tracks, not racing tracks ;) We've got a grass track around our field - it's blimmin bumpy :o

Clodagh, I think it's also to do with the speed and gait. Normal driving isn't done at 30mph+ which is what our horses reach on grass / all weathers! It's also to do with the hopples - if they drop their heads the hangers would slide forward on the front hopples and again the risk of getting tangled up would increase - not something you'd ever want to happen :eek:
If you look at the harness it's quite different to normal driving harness alround - praise be to whoever invented the quick hitch :D
 
I dont think these are all misconceptions either or bad practices by the minority. I live in an area where there is always someone out with a pacer so i speak from observations of many different people and horses.
 
Lanky Loll said:
Sorry Lee - by off road I mean forestry commission type tracks, not racing tracks ;) We've got a grass track around our field - it's blimmin bumpy :o

Clodagh, I think it's also to do with the speed and gait. Normal driving isn't done at 30mph+ which is what our horses reach on grass / all weathers! It's also to do with the hopples - if they drop their heads the hangers would slide forward on the front hopples and again the risk of getting tangled up would increase - not something you'd ever want to happen :eek:
If you look at the harness it's quite different to normal driving harness alround - praise be to whoever invented the quick hitch :D
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try to train on the beach where poss just have to contend with the dogs chasing you.

falling out of the sulky is bad enough at 30+ mph but for the horse to go down with you at the same speed thats a car crash.
 
lee1984 said:
falling out of the sulky is bad enough at 30+ mph but for the horse to go down with you at the same speed thats a car crash.
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exactly and it can happen for all sorts of reasons let alone kit failure or not using the right harness.

Thankfully I have to say I've never seen a fatality on the track (and long may that continue) regardless of how hideous the fall has seemed, the horses have been up, maybe needing treatment but ok. You'd hope that would be one of the plus points for the sport especially given the vitriol that gets directed at NH and flat racing.
 
EPRider said:
Overhead checks are used on hackneys in the show ring, do they class as normal driving?
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Hadn't thought of it, but they have an unnatural head carriage too I suppose, so no better. I accept that for horses to be competitive in any discipline from dressage to puissance you need gadgets but the prolonged holding of a head so unnaturally high can't be any nicer than rollkur, IMO.
 
I would not go to a harness race meeting: I work in an urban environment where owners of fast trotting horses of several different types/ breeds race/train.Their horses and wheeled vehicles ( sulkies, traps, London trolleys, gigs) hare up and down at great speed, being shouted at and hit to go faster. The whole spectacle is very unpleasant and I am generally not keen on racing horses, ponies or dogs for that matter. I think it has a high potential to cause injury and trauma to the animals, driven by the egos of the owners.
I am aware that all forms of equestrian sport have the potential to put success over care for the animals' welfare and that such harm is seen or believed to happen 'behind closed doors.
I daily see what I believe to be thoughtless and ignorant behaviour to powerless frightened horses, driven by loud and apparently aggressive men. I do not wish to support this, or any other form of such 'sport'.
I am sure there are good, kind and responsible owners of horses who harness race: I haven't seen any. I don't like the tack used - it looks restrictive and punitive. I don't believe that trotting horses along metalled roads at 30+mph is defensible.
 
Clodagh said:
Hadn't thought of it, but they have an unnatural head carriage too I suppose, so no better. I accept that for horses to be competitive in any discipline from dressage to puissance you need gadgets but the prolonged holding of a head so unnaturally high can't be any nicer than rollkur, IMO.
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There is a degree of flex in the over check. It's there for the horse to balance against, and shouldn't be used to force the head back. Also it shouldn't be for a prolonged period - the most ours would wear them for even in training is 30mins, at the race track it's probably 10-15 tops allowing for warm up time. As soon as the race is over you'll usually see people stopping and removing the check to let the horse relax fully and walk out.
 
I'm sure if I researched this it's mostly misconception, but I think I am pretty average for horse owners. My reaction to "harness racing" is

- horses trussed up like Turkeys and probably as happy about it as my Christmas one

- being hammered in an annatural pace at leg damaging speeds, additionally often on the wrong surfaces

- by people who are more concerned about betting on the outcome than the welfare, or even the beauty, of the horse


I am not saying this to start an argument. I am saying it in response to the original post, which requested ordinary people's view of harness racing.
 
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