Misrepresentation of horse - Opinions please

J

jagmadir

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Hi guys,

I bought a gelding in May and he has a scar around his eye. I was told in writing that he had an accident in a field while his owner was away for a weekend, and on her return it was infected and left him with this scar. I didn't have him vetted as he was only £2500.

Recently the scar tissue started changing, a small scab just won't heal (it's now been five weeks). It's not infected and isn't causing him any discomfort, but a hard swelling started to appear around the scab. Having owned a couple of horses that have needed sarcoid treatment, I became increasingly more worried about this evolving wound.

Long story short, I contacted the owner by messaging her. I said that if there was something else I needed to know regarding his eye, then please tell me so that I can get it treated accordingly. No response. So I sent her a photo of it and asked if she could get back to me. She called me Monday night... He had in fact suffered with quite severe sarcoids and had to undergo radiation treatment at Liverpool University costing £7500. And now, it appears that the sarcoids are coming back. So I now have an un-insurable horse which needs specialist treatment.

His advert even stated "never sick or sorry" (I've kept a copy).

I've spoken to my vet who saw the scar when I first aquired him (before it started changing) and when asked... "If you had vetted my horse and been told that the scar was from an old injury, would you have passed or failed him?" - Her response "There is nothing that suggests that the scar is anything more than an old injury, it certainly isn't obvious that he's had radiation and on the basis that you do not want him for showing, I would not have failed him on his face and I would not have questioned the story you were told."

Where do you think I stand? Anyone been through something similar?
 
I am normally fairly sceptical about this type of situation, buyer beware, failing to ask enough questions, not taking the vets advice etc but in this case I think it is very clear that you have been totally misled, they even had a story to cover up what really happened which sounds convincing and would, as your vet has said, not been a reason to fail a vetting if it were true.

I think you need to get legal advice as I expect you have a strong case, however you may not stand to gain much and it could cost you to get the matter resolved.
 
I believe you would have a claim against her. I know that a claim can be successful against a private individual as I know a private individual who fell foul of this, even though he felt he had been honest. It was a question of interpretation in that case, and still they lost.

In your case it seems pretty clear cut, you were lied to.

What outcome do you want? A refund and return the horse? A discount from purchase price? That is the first thing you need to decide, what you want the outcome to be. Then be very careful what you discuss with the previous owners, I would join the BHS if you are not a member and use their legal helpline.

It is not as difficult as you would think to go through the small claims court. Plus, most people who are generally law abiding will settle beforehand. Keep all correspondence.

If it were me I would ask for the details of the previous treatment to be released to your vet, just so you know what treatment was given, plus then you have the proof of lying.
 
I am arguing on another thread against suing. I do not believe court is the answer for most problems. But in this case I would have no hesitation at all in saying sue the pants off her if she will not refund your money. She has outright lied to you, you have proof of that in writing, and you would not have bought the horse if you had known. Shameful behaviour by the seller.
 
Thanks all, I keep going from upset to down right livid at the moment! So far I've been very neutral with the old owner and she's promised that she'll scan and send over the information on his diagnosis and treatment, so I'm impatiently waiting for it to land in my inbox. If it ever arrives.

I definitely want to keep him, he's an absolute sweetheart and it would break my heart if I had to send him back. She certainly doesn't deserve him. So I'll be going for compensation.
 
That's fair enough, but the value of a horse with sarcoids around the eye which have returned after treatment is a big fat zero unless it has a brilliant record (except showing!). Bear that in mind when negotiating the compensation.
 
cptrayes said:
That's fair enough, but the value of a horse with sarcoids around the eye which have returned after treatment is a big fat zero unless it has a brilliant record (except showing!). Bear that in mind when negotiating the compensation.
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I would go as far to say it is less than zero in reality, if they have spent £7500 on treatment which has failed, it will no longer be covered by insurance so any further treatment needs funding, it puts him into negative equity, unless he is a horse with an excellent record.
Do you know when the treatment was done?
 
Yes I would definitely say the horse was misrepresented. If you have legal cover on your home insurance you should be able to progress your claim without incurring cost.
 
Yeah he really is worth nothing. If I'd known the truth from the start I would have steered clear, but now I'm emotionally committed which makes it hard. She says that it was done 7 years ago but "can't be sure, I'll have to dig out the paperwork". Luckily he's a decent little horse so he can serve a purpose. But it's the funding of the treatment and the the brazen and underhand misrepresntation that I'm struggling to get my head around. Now I'm doubting whether I should be so keen to keep him... Urghh and the cycle continues
 
If you are in any doubt whatsoever, for your own sake, return him immediately.

He is, frankly, a money sink who will also break your heart. There is no bright side to look on with sarcoids around the eyes. The eye is an outpost of the brain. My friend's horse started with what looked like a sarcoid on the eye and ended up dying with a brain tumour. Even if his are less problematic, they are still likely to be a serious problem.
 
If it was done 7 years ago, although she has still lied to cover up what it really was, then she may genuinely have believed the treatment had worked, that the sarcoids were long gone, still doesn't make it right but more understandable, moving to a new home after so long may have set them off, being a viral condition they can be vulnerable to any stress to the system and can be triggered by so many things.

You are in a difficult position as keeping him could prove expensive, I think I would put him onto a really good supplement to support his immune system and see if they settle down before going into expensive treatments.
 
OP I don't think you'll be able to get compensation for the costs of further treatment as that is your choice to treat. Also if you're not wanting to send him back for a refund I don't think you'll be able to claim for the expense of keeping him so far. I think compensation would be the difference in value between the price you paid and the price you would have paid had you known about the past history of sarcoids. So you're still going to be left with a lot of the cost of funding treatment I expect. Fingers crossed for your horses recovery. I'm normally against sueing but I agree with CPT in this case you've been lied to and have proof so sueing is justified and you should hopefully win.
 
cptrayes said:
If you are in any doubt whatsoever, for your own sake, return him immediately.

He is, frankly, a money sink who will also break your heart. There is no bright side to look on with sarcoids around the eyes. The eye is an outpost of the brain. My friend's horse started with what looked like a sarcoid on the eye and ended up dying with a brain tumour. Even if his are less problematic, they are still likely to be a serious problem.
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So sorry to hear this. We had one, a top class pony club eventer that had a "growth" removed from her eye. This was successful and she went on for about 4 years afterwards and bred one foal. When she came back from stud the second time she had a growth underneath her jaw, which was inoperable and grew until it was blocking her airway. Were going to try and keep her going until the foal was born, but had to PTS in the January. Oddly enough when in foal the first time she had a strange "attack" and the foal had strange things like a slightly lopsided face, and I always wondered if this was all connected.
 
Sorry to hear about your situation - check out Turmeric User Group on Facebook a lot of people on there have had success treating sarcoids with a Turmeric paste which at least will help with that side of it if you decide to keep him.
 
Horrible situation for you, but I just wanted to recount my story for you in case it helps. I bought my horse with a recently undertaken vetting (not in last home for long), which listed a scar over one eye as 'possible ringworm'. Like you, my own vet checked him just after purchase, but she stated that in her opinion it was a likely sarcoid (flat scaly type). I don't believe that the seller tried to cover anything up in my instance though - it was a genuine sale. I didn't know much about sarcoids, so just ignored it really.

After a while, however, it started growing into a large hard lump (think egg size) directly above his eye. Vet recommended a bloodroot paste which worked a treat (purchased through vet, around £100 for a small pot) - though rather dramatically as the skin opened up and literally spat out the sarcoid inside. It re-occurred a year or so later, used the same cream (same pot!) sarcoid exploded again (but caught much quicker this time, so much less messy). No reoccurrences and have had horse for 9 years now.

I know that different sarcoids can respond differently to different things, but thought it sounded similar. I do feed turmeric now too (for arthritis) but stuck to vets recommendations for something as aggressive as a sarcoid.
 
Be very,very wary of starting any litigation on this one and try and sort it between you.
It is easy to say you will get a judgement but it will be very unlikely you will ever get the money.There are so many loopholes to them paying up. If you are 100% percent sure they have that sort of money get their assets frozen at a very early stage in proceedings.
All you end up with is throwing good money after bad.
 
You asked the question and seller lied so they have misrepresentated the horse IMO. I believe that sarcoids can be caused due to stress in the horse so sounds like moving to a new home could have triggered something. Try giving your horse Echineachia? which will build up the immunity from within. In the first instance I would ask the seller how she would like to resolve the matter and go from there. Good luck and I hope your horse overcomes this problem.
 
I am not a one for running to the lawyers but this dishonestly on an epic scale and would hesitate to sue the previous owner .
Poor horse how sad for him.
 
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