Miss sold a horse - where do I stand with previous owner?

amymay said:
Put it down to experience.
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That's what I would do .
It's been an expensive lesson .
Always have a horse vetted I have over forty years experiance and would never buy without a five stage vetting it's not a guarantee of no issues but it's one of the best ways there is a not making an expenstive mistake.
Go to the Epona stars face book page where Mrs B is preparing a checklist to help novice buyers ( don't know if it's done yet ).
And console yourself by telling everyone horsey you know your story.
Next time take an experianced friend to all viewings it really helps to have someone in your camp with you.
 
Thanks for your comments & advice everyone. It's definitely been a learning experience if anything. They are definitely not short of money but they have a reputation as being very tight with it. If they had supported me and tried to help me instead of belittling me, being rude and harassing me for trying to find out what was wrong with my horse I wouldn't be so quick to try to get my money back and would put it down to an unlucky experience.
 
rockysmum said:
Thats such a sad story, RIP your girl, I hope you have more luck next time.

I have no idea on the legalities, but one thing struck me from your story, are you sure they have plenty of money.

They may appear to have, but their behaviour hardly suggests it.

Dealing in bin end horses and passing them onto novice owners isn't usually a hobby of the rich.

They possibly have financial troubles and are finding it hard to maintain what they have. If that is the case you are unlikely to get anything back from them, even if you name and shame.
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When I first read the OP I didn't notice it did actually say where the poster was from - but I could tell even if she hadn't said.

I sent the OP a PM last night giving her the name of the only equine specialist advocate on the Island and suggesting that she did not continue posting regarding the matter as there is more than me on the forum from the Island and you never know who knows who - belive me this post will be rumbled if it hasn't already and she is making a rod for her own back.

Being a bit older, wiser and more experienced! I gave her my real name by PM last night and also said if she wanted to tell me the name of the people I would let her know if they had a reputation for this behaviour and anything else I knew.

I have heard a similar story before - but not a mother and daughter - just a daughter so to speak.

Haven't heard from the OP so am starting to wonder if this is a crisis being made out of a drama!
Haven
 
shadowboy said:
When I studied law at uni (yonks ago now!!) I was told if you buy goods from a trader that deem themselves to be a specialist in that trade and purchase based on their advice as a layman then you can be recompensed from their poor advice. So in this situation you would need to show that they do trade in horses and also that they state somewhere that they are experienced or skilled or trained in horses in some way. Do they have an advert somewhere? You would then explain that as a layman only based your decision upon that experienced advice. I have seen in it equine law in the past when I lived in Essex and one of the dodgy dealers down there got taken to court and lost but I think the girl who sued never managed to get a penny out of him sadly. I feel sorry for the way you were taken advantage of and it reminds me what an awful place the equine world can be. Whatever you decide to do just consider the long term consequences either way and good luck! Oh and remember that that horse was lucky she had time with you and you saw to her every need during those 10 months!
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This. It's called legitimate expectation (you bought on the expectation that it was a suitable horse) and, if as you say they attempted to interfere with the vet's prognosis in an attempt to avert the blame, there is always a possibility you'd get some compensation. It appears as if they were trying to hide something. A good litigation letter or two may be all it takes. However, these cases can be long and drawn out and expensive.
 
Cronkmooar I replied to you last night, I can't directly reply to your inboxes on my phone so sent you a new private one. I said on the inbox I wasn't prepared to name anybody as I have to give them a chance to defend themselves to me/try and sort something out before I name and shame. That wouldn't be fair. I don't really care if my post has been "rumbled" or not. I'm telling the truth and what I've stated is facts. If people aren't proud of their actions they shouldn't behave that way in the first place. Also.. I already stated where I was from in original post. I have nothing to hide & and I certainly don't find what I've said and having to put my horse to sleep a drama! It's very real & very distressing. I apologise if you didn't receive my post but I did reply and thanked you for your advice re lawyer.
 
No - I got no message from you.

If you are wanting to follow any course of action you SHOULD care if this post is seen by those whom you are wanting to take action against as this could damage any case you might have.

Not so important if you living elsewhere as it could be anyone - given you where you live - pretty important.

Anyway its of no concern of mine what you do, but why ask for advice when you are not willing to listen to those that are more experienced?
 
You owned the horse for 10 months, I really really doubt you will get any money back as its gone on so long. You also didnt have the horse vetted which is a major issue here I think. I dont even see why them being dealers would make any difference because you did ride the horse for 2 months after you bought it so we would assume it was fit for purpose and then went lame? Had it gone lame the second you got it home, then I guess thats different.
 
I had a thought reading this thread yesterday but held off from posting until I spoke to my father who is a solicitor.

I agree with the sentiments regarding, the lack of vetting 'buyer beware' it could be difficult although not necessarily impossible to wade through that in court.

However, what you can prove quite easily with a statement from your vet is that following the purchase and during your investigations into the condition of your horse, the seller committed fraud by misrepresenting themselves to your vet in an effort to conceal the truth from you.

Someone may have already mentioned this but I thought it worth a post.
 
If Op is going running to the law to try to get redress for her own bad judgement then this thread is probally a bad idea however that aside I see no reason why people who have had bad experiances should not shout loud about them.
These dealers depend on people being to embrasssed to speak freely about their stories because being had mades you feel very silly .
If OP wants to sue thats one thing my view is that she will be batting on a stiff wicket there she not seek to return the horse quickly has no paper trail of her asking the dealer to take the horse back and she had the horse PTS without reference to the dealer when the horse was not in need of immediate PTS on welfare grounds.
Silence serves no one ,except the dealer and the only sure winners when you go to law is the lawyers.
 
Queenbee said:
I had a thought reading this thread yesterday but held off from posting until I spoke to my father who is a solicitor.

I agree with the sentiments regarding, the lack of vetting 'buyer beware' it could be difficult although not necessarily impossible to wade through that in court.

However, what you can prove quite easily with a statement from your vet is that following the purchase and during your investigations into the condition of your horse, the seller committed fraud by misrepresenting themselves to your vet in an effort to conceal the truth from you.

Someone may have already mentioned this but I thought it worth a post.
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Yup...I agree. See earlier post from me.

From the OP it did strike me that there was opportunity for recourse undamped by the buyer beware:

Namely in that "They knew it was my first horse and said that one of them would be suitable. It was a 5 yr old TB mare";"was told for the price I paid it wasn't worth it as she wasn't "expensive""; "two weeks they called me up telling me she had started weaving and I must have done something to cause this"...etc. If it can be proven that these points were made (and there doesn't have to be writing), and this team are dealers by definition, or make an income from buying and selling horses as well as running the yard...then I think there is scope, to put it bluntly, of proving she was conned into buying a horse.

But of course, it's the fact they tried to obstruct the vet that makes this very much a case that could be won in court.
 
I'm sorry for you, OP, sounds as though you were swept along with the sale by these unscrupulous people. You did the right thing by putting the mare to sleep. I doubt that you would have had any success in an insurance claim, as, under BEVA guidelines, a horse has to be in so much pain that pts is the only option (ie rolling on the floor in agony)

The positive is that you were not seriously hurt.
 
I don't see how I am not taking advice from the above posts? I am taking everything on board here. I freely admitted it was a big mistake not having the horse vetted. I had problems with the horse from the start but didnt want to give up on her so easily and persevered with her although I was unhappy and didn't enjoy riding her. She was always rushing when I know now can be a sign of discomfort and did address my concerns but was told not to worry or be concerned by it. She was a sweet horse & we all know that horses will put up with being ridden in all sorts of conditions due to their kind nature.
I realise I have made mistakes with the purchase & just wanting to share my experience, seek advice and hear from others in similar situations.
It wasn't lameness issues originally it was also her back. I had a master saddler out who confirmed her saddle fit so I did all I could to find out what was wrong.
 
Hereshoping said:
Yup...I agree. See earlier post from me.

From the OP it did strike me that there was opportunity for recourse undamped by the buyer beware:

Namely in that "They knew it was my first horse and said that one of them would be suitable. It was a 5 yr old TB mare";"was told for the price I paid it wasn't worth it as she wasn't "expensive""; "two weeks they called me up telling me she had started weaving and I must have done something to cause this"...etc. If it can be proven that these points were made (and there doesn't have to be writing), and this team are dealers by definition, or make an income from buying and selling horses as well as running the yard...then I think there is scope, to put it bluntly, of proving she was conned into buying a horse.

But of course, it's the fact they tried to obstruct the vet that makes this very much a case that could be won in court.
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Definitely, and also proving that they had sold more than three horses within that 12 month time frame would help giving much more clout, proving they were dealers and therefore subject to far more stringent regulation. I really think that this is the OP's golden ticket, just the threat of court, mentioning this in a well worded letter from a solicitor could well do the trick. OP's hope to appeal to the sellers better nature, is not the course I would be taking, to sell such a horse on, shows to me that they do not have a better nature sadly :(
 
I agree with Goldenstar, but whilst you are clearly and understandably upset you need to think carefully before embarking on legal action which will cost you even more if you lose.
These cases always come back to who did what and when, is there a paper trail of letters emails etc. to confirm the course of events, can you find out anything about the previous history of the horse and where it came from. You will only have a case if you can show that these people knew this was a problem horse when they sold it, the only good thing is that given the story that they are bringing horses on for sale they should be treated as professional dealers by the law which would help you. Other than appealing to their better nature I would advise you to put this sorry matter behind you and seek the help of someone you can trust next time. I wish you the best of luck.
 
I also mentioned to seller I was concerned about her balance as she would occasionally stumble and once fell over being lunged in canter. Again I was told her balance could be worked on but that it wasn't a concern as her balance was good! I also have saved text conversations of this.
 
Kate88 said:
I don't see how I am not taking advice from the above posts? I am taking everything on board here. I freely admitted it was a big mistake not having the horse vetted. I had problems with the horse from the start but didnt want to give up on her so easily and persevered with her although I was unhappy and didn't enjoy riding her. She was always rushing when I know now can be a sign of discomfort and did address my concerns but was told not to worry or be concerned by it. She was a sweet horse & we all know that horses will put up with being ridden in all sorts of conditions due to their kind nature.
I realise I have made mistakes with the purchase & just wanting to share my experience, seek advice and hear from others in similar situations.
It wasn't lameness issues originally it was also her back. I had a master saddler out who confirmed her saddle fit so I did all I could to find out what was wrong.
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I think after making the mistakes you made in the purchase desision OP you did right by this horse that and the fact you did not get hurt and you so easily could have been badly hurt some comfort to you.
She's not suffering now poor little thing.
 
Kate88 said:
I don't see how I am not taking advice from the above posts? I am taking everything on board here. I freely admitted it was a big mistake not having the horse vetted. I had problems with the horse from the start but didnt want to give up on her so easily and persevered with her although I was unhappy and didn't enjoy riding her. She was always rushing when I know now can be a sign of discomfort and did address my concerns but was told not to worry or be concerned by it. She was a sweet horse & we all know that horses will put up with being ridden in all sorts of conditions due to their kind nature.
I realise I have made mistakes with the purchase & just wanting to share my experience, seek advice and hear from others in similar situations.
It wasn't lameness issues originally it was also her back. I had a master saddler out who confirmed her saddle fit so I did all I could to find out what was wrong.
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Kate, in all honesty it is only ever voiced that people are wrong or stupid for not getting a vetting when something goes badly wrong like this. I have not read all the other posts so I don't know what others are saying. Yes perhaps in this case a vetting would have saved you heartache, but its in the past, that does not mean that the sellers were in any way correct, and for what its worth in all my years I have owned 7 horses and not one of them had a vetting, perhaps I was lucky, but also perhaps there were little things that may have been picked up that would have stopped me from getting them, certainly one of them and that mare ended up with a new and full life, so it is not always clear cut.

If I were you, I would try and prove that they sold three horses that year, I would get a statement from your vet regarding their misrepresentation and interference, and speak to defra, furthermore I would then engage a solicitor to write a letter outlining your evidence for fraud. This should stand you a chance at getting compensation before even entertaining court. Good luck x
 
OK this is the last post I'm making on this matter as I'm finding it increasingly frustrating

To clarify my earlier and my comment on listening to advice:

The IOM is small and the chances are someone who knows the other parties will have seen this and brought this to their attention - from what you have posted I have a damn good idea who it is !!!

The only person who can tell you whether you have a case is an IOM advocate (other posters whilst IOM law is based on UK law we have our own legal system and Government which approves legislation) UK law is not necessarily going to be the same - there might be differences on the finer points.

THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART

IF you have a case (and some of what you have posted would indicated that you may have) each time you are posting on here you are very possibly damaging your case and the other parties if they are aware will have copy of this and could use it against you.

Two people have told you if you are wanting to seek legal redress for this matter this thread is a bad idea.

The best thing you can do is contact TFC and ask for this thread to be removed, phone the Advocate I told you about on Monday (do not mention their name on here becasue you could end up with them conflicted out) keep your powder dry and take it from there.

I understand your upset and frustration - as will quite a few of the other posters - not very many horse owners with years of experience will not have been "had" at one point.

Learn from others mistakes - and dont make the mistakes you made in purchasing the horse worse by venting on this forum
 
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The thing with sueing is there's no point in sueing a man of straw and this sort of person very quickly knows how to make themselves a man of straw you might spend money get a judgement in your favour but never see a penny let it go but darken their name .
 
EVERY horse needs to be fully vetted! Especially the cheap ones. Vet bills cost as much for cheap horse as they do for expensive ones and IMO £3000 isn't all that cheap!

I really feel sorry that things didn't pan out and that these nasty people took advantage of you but I very much doubt you'll have a leg to stand on. Mainly because you didn't get a vetting and they're selling as 'private' individuals. This might not be the case (them being genuine 'private' sellers) but proving it mightn't be easy and but IME fighting can sometimes be a real pain in the neck and it's sometimes better to just walk away and put things down to experience. Unless you have the funds, time and utter committment.

Good luck in whatever you decide :)
 
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OP I'm sorry you have had such a sad and awful time. I think there is nothing to be gained by taking legal action even if you do have a case, its usually just the lawyers who gain - financially - you'll just have worry and heartache and more bills to pay.

Probably best to put it down to experience and having nothing more to do with these people ever again who sound like they let you down very badly. Compensation Money won't bring your horse back problem free, so maybe best just to move on as soon as you feel you have come to terms with all this heartache.

I hope your next horse will be everything you hope for.
 
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