Miss sold horse with Kissing spine, refund possible?

[Leahwood]

Ok, I purchased a ex race horse back in March off a trainer, and had her five stage vetted and she passed. We gave her a few days to settle and lunged her a few times and then got on her. Unfortunately the first time of getting on her, she reared and flipped on top of me. (4th day of owning her) Straight away I call the person who I bought her from, to come and collect her and refund me my money, as she is dangerous. So I requested within 4 days of owning her.

Unfortunately the person who I bought her from, refused to refund me my full amount of money and would only give me half the amount back and take the horse back as well. I was told that I had made it all up and had just decided that I didn't want the horse, and if they were to listen to me the horse would just be shot.

So refused for them to take her back as they would only refund me half the amount. A fair amount was spent on said horse.

She was in quite a poor state when I purchased her, so decided to give her a few months off to gain some weight and start again, as I told myself it was just a freak accident.

6 months on, I brought her back into work. She still wasn't right, so have had her scoped for ulcers. She did have ulcers which have now been treated.
I had book a saddle fitting in last week and unfortunately once again she reared up and flipped on top of me.

I have taken her to the vets again and have had her back x-rayed and they have confirmed that she has severe kissing spine.

I just wanted to ask for some advice, where do i stand ? Obviously she was miss sold/ no longer fit for purpose. Is there any chance I am able to take them to court, to be refunded my money? I understand it has been a while, however the problem was told to the seller within 4 days of the sale. As I now have a massive bill , if I go ahead with kissing spine surgery and there is no guarantee she can ever be ridden again.

Thanks in advance
* Horse was tired twice before vetting and the seller is a dealer.

 

[Fieldlife]

Did you take bloods at vetting? What does vetting vet say?

 

[AmyMay]

Have you done some research on the horses racing history and that of the trainer?

 

[Flyermc]

Are you a BHS gold member? if you are id call them for advice

 

[Bob notacob]

The mistake was not returning the horse and demanding full refund at the time . By persevering , you have severely reduced your chance of getting anything back ,as you altered the nature of the contract .Get a solicitor to approach the dealer again and try to negotiate a settlement. Neither you nor the dealer will want to go to court. It will be more costly than you can imagine and no guarantee of success.

 

[meleeka]

If only you’d have got the diagnosis sooner you’d have been able to return for a full refund. As it is, there’s no proof she had KS when you bought her. It’s basically your word against the dealer. I also think the vet is at fault too, but again they could argue the horse was fine when they vetted it. I think 6 months is just too long to wait before starting proceedings, but a good equine solicitor would be able to advise better.

 

[ycbm]

You can take a small claim, it's done online and costs a very small amount of money if you aren't claiming tens of thousands. . I think you should have a very good chance of the trainer/owner paying up to prevent it going to court, but even if you lost it should not cost a lot, this is what small claims is for, ordinary people to have access to the law.

I think I would send a recorded delivery letter laying out what you have said in your post, including that they offered to pay you back half, as this could well be taken as an acceptance of liability. I would tell them that unless they refund all the vets fees and cover for the kissing spines operation within 14 days, you will raise a small claim. And if they don't do that, I would raise the claim. Most dealers will settle rather than risk a court judgement being on record against them.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

The KS could have happened on your watch you are going to have trouble proving that it was there on purchase .

 

[ycbm]

The KS could have happened on your watch you are going to have trouble proving that it was there on purchase .

This is true, but I would be hoping that the vet will be able to state that in their view these kissing spines are too advanced to be accounted for by six weeks restarting after six months turned away.

I don't feel this is necessarily a case you'd want to fight to the bitter end, but it's wonderful what having court papers served can often achieve.
.

 

[Goldenstar]

The collection of evidence will cost money , I don’t know what the horse cost but it might be better spent dealing with the issue .

OP should have pursued this at the time , she could have pursued the vet who vetted the horse at the time of purchase .
So she has a vets report that said the horse was suitable of purchase and she will now need to find a vet prepared to say the horse had the issue at the time of purchase .
I think she will struggle to make a case that gets the balance of evidence to a state where she can get this case to a state where the evidence shows that where the probability is that the KS was present at purchase .

 

[Equi]

Bloods generally only get held for 6 months so it was a mistake not to have them tested. I assume under a 5* vetting the horse was ridden?

 

[bonny]

I don’t think you have any chance after all this time, have you got it in writing that you were offered half your money back ? That might help but it’s still a long time ago.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Unfortunately (as I'm sure you're aware) the time to have insisted on a refund would have been when you first noticed the issues. They wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

As an aside, a vetting wouldn't pick up kissing spine, if the horse was sound.

I presume you're more like 8 months + on now given time for investigations. You could go down the small claims route but personally I'd put it down to experience and try and move forward. Presumably there's a high chance the horse will be pts?

 

[Prancerpoos]

Not insured, I presume? That may have been an option as the horse passed a 5 stage vetting.

 

[Birker2020]

Just so we are clear I'm not trying to derail your thread before I get accused of this.
I am trying to explain my experience to see if it helps you. I bought a horse last year Oct 2021 after searching for one for over 4 months following the death of my old horse.

He passed a five stage vetting, he had a suspected SI injury when I first rode him at home which was 6 days after owning him when I got a saddle fitted for him. My friend who is a vet physio saw him ridden and said he had issues with slight right hind lameness and his leg would 'give way' about twice a 20 minute session, the pro rider felt this was because he was weak behind but it could have been due to the SI. We had seen him do this at the viewing and i pointed it out to my OH (not blaming him) but he thought it was just a misstep due to the surface he was ridden on.

During the first week riding him he started bucking but we put it down to saddle fit. I decided to do ground work with the horse following a accident when he pulled back and the twine didn't break and he had an acute SI strain. He was xrayed on my insistence and was found to have a lot of arthritic changes in his neck which my vet at the time tried to lay at my door saying it was as a result of the accident despite only 11 days having passed since the accident and xray. So I decided to forget riding and spent four months bringing him back into work in order to build his core and his top line which was none existent at the time so I could get a nice saddle fitted to him when he was built up. The pro rider started riding him but he felt like he was an unexploded bomb, I eventually started riding him but he didn't feel safe at all, he ended up throwing me off and I hurt myself quite badly.

Because of his issues he was re reffered to the vet and had his coffin joints medicated, his SI and his back was xrayed and medicated over the sore spot that corresponded on his back with some of the xray. He also had his hocks medicated. All this within about 7 months of owning him. He had this done in April and his SI and his back (the all the processes) again in July or August and ended up being brought back into work three times by the pro rider but sadly hadn't got any better, is still sore through his SI and his back and the vet feels he always will be. The vet decided not to operate on his hind suspensories as he thinks that they might also be an issue. So I have decided to give up him being a ridden horse as its clear he won't stand up to work and now I am hoping he will be a candidate for the blood bank next Spring. He's only 11 and can live a smashing life there, he doesn't need medicating and has lived in a herd environement and isn't needle shy so its a good option for him.

I rang up BHS and spoke to an equestrian solicitor as well as speaking to another equestrian solicitor who was recommended to me but both said that unless I could prove that he was missold I had no leg to stand on because he was a private sale and unless I could prove that I was told the horse didn't rear and then did, or didn't bolt and then did (that sort of thing) then I didn't have a leg to stand on. Unfortunately I kept thinking the horse would come back into work so didn't get him blood tested.

Looking back on all the things I was told by the owner at the time like the fact he over reached so needed over reach boots on, he needed riding at least five times a week, and many other things that didn't add up at the time but became clear as events unfolded that I had been well and truly had. In fact so much had, that my vet has said that the vet that vetted him shouldn't have even passed him.

Its a crying shame, the horse was super talented, had won a fair bit BS and had a lot of eventing experience but has quite clearly had a nasty accident which looking at the massive split in his foot my farrier reckoned had happened about 12th months prior to me owning him. I absolutely love the bones of him, its been a horrendous experience and heart breaking.

 

[Birker2020]

I did find this information out but didn't understand if it related to me and to be quite honest I was so exhausted by it all I have just given up. I understand how you must feel, its horrible having this done to you by a seller when you buy in good faith. There is no way they couldn't have known there was an issue which is what you feel in your case, so I know you must be devastated.

Even after 6 months from the date of purchase, the buyer still has a common law right to reject the horse and claim damages or to rescind the contract for misrepresentation and/or claim damages. These rights last for up to 6 years and again are unaffected by the CRA and offer alternative remedies to the buyer, just as before.

https://www.tozers.co.uk/insights/guide-to-the-consumer-rights-act-and-buying-a-horse

 

[Bob notacob]

I did find this information out but didn't understand if it related to me and to be quite honest I was so exhausted by it all I have just given up. I understand how you must feel, its horrible having this done to you by a seller when you buy in good faith. There is no way they couldn't have known there was an issue which is what you feel in your case, so I know you must be devastated.

Even after 6 months from the date of purchase, the buyer still has a common law right to reject the horse and claim damages or to rescind the contract for misrepresentation and/or claim damages. These rights last for up to 6 years and again are unaffected by the CRA and offer alternative remedies to the buyer, just as before.

https://www.tozers.co.uk/insights/guide-to-the-consumer-rights-act-and-buying-a-horse

Unfortunately as the purchaser was aware of a problem early on and chose to continue with the contract in the hope that things might improve .They took on the risk that they might not improve . To try and invoke the consumer protection act would take some serious arguing .

 

[seelig]

My daughter brought a horse Aspro Du Loir 7 year ago. With in the first 2 weeks of owning him he was rearing. We contacted the previous owners twice with in the first 6 six months of owning him about his behaviour but they were not helpful. Aspro threw my daughter on the floor several times within the first six months. We had a very experience equine vet out,physio horse dentist and saddle fitter out. The last time he threw her off going through a dressage test I thought he killed her she hit the Arena fence and fell down it. She end up in A and E in one of her falls, she just didn’t want to give up on him. I called the previous owners again and asked if they take him back for half the price they did not. An experience eventer rode Aspro and told us to get him x-rayed for kissing spine. We took him to the an equine vets got him x-rayed and he had kissing spine. We had him operated on to make him more comfortable. My daughter tried to take the people to the small claims court but they have said we did not contact them till 8 months after the purchase. Make sure you have Proof of all your contacts with the previous owner. The best of luck I hope you can get your money back it is a nightmare situation.

 

[horses32]

Thats awful that your vet had not noticed with a 5 stage vetting. I know its a different type of issue, but a refund will be hard going but I have had a few dangerous horses sold to me in the past and took them straight back with no issues... but very stressful/dangerous and sad to think people just think of money all the time

 

[seelig]

Hi how is your horse doing ? Did you manage to get any money back from the dealer you bought your horse off ?

Ok, I purchased a ex race horse back in March off a trainer, and had her five stage vetted and she passed. We gave her a few days to settle and lunged her a few times and then got on her. Unfortunately the first time of getting on her, she reared and flipped on top of me. (4th day of owning her) Straight away I call the person who I bought her from, to come and collect her and refund me my money, as she is dangerous. So I requested within 4 days of owning her.

Unfortunately the person who I bought her from, refused to refund me my full amount of money and would only give me half the amount back and take the horse back as well. I was told that I had made it all up and had just decided that I didn't want the horse, and if they were to listen to me the horse would just be shot.

So refused for them to take her back as they would only refund me half the amount. A fair amount was spent on said horse.

She was in quite a poor state when I purchased her, so decided to give her a few months off to gain some weight and start again, as I told myself it was just a freak accident.

6 months on, I brought her back into work. She still wasn't right, so have had her scoped for ulcers. She did have ulcers which have now been treated.
I had book a saddle fitting in last week and unfortunately once again she reared up and flipped on top of me.

I have taken her to the vets again and have had her back x-rayed and they have confirmed that she has severe kissing spine.

I just wanted to ask for some advice, where do i stand ? Obviously she was miss sold/ no longer fit for purpose. Is there any chance I am able to take them to court, to be refunded my money? I understand it has been a while, however the problem was told to the seller within 4 days of the sale. As I now have a massive bill , if I go ahead with kissing spine surgery and there is no guarantee she can ever be ridden again.

Thanks in advance
* Horse was tired twice before vetting and the seller is a dealer.