Miss-sold or 'settling in'

I think a "no vices" pony that bucked, and continued to buck, should go back pronto. Of course a dealer's trick was to let you have the pony, "and send it back if it doesn't work out" knowing full well that a) they have your money and b) you will get fond of the animal and not want to send it back and c) "well it didn't do that when I had it" and d) sorry I have spent the money on buying more animals so you can't have your money back.

I have seen the stories of horses not settling down in a new home, and I believe them. But then how does that apply when you take the horse away to stay at a show, it has to just go out and do its job, whether or not it likes its neighbour. I know they are not being turned out together, and the owner is continuing to look after and ride, but I think that a horse that is basically well mannered should be well mannered in all circumstances unless there is a major upset in how it is handled.
 
Mis-sold or mis-bought?

There is a lot more to horses than riding. Having seen some people's tacking up and basic horse care abilities.

If you dont want the horse to do anything go back to riding school. You never learn to ride until you get your own horse.

Also in this day and age you can research quite easily. Get on the dodgy dealers facebook sites, ask questions about the horse on the internet, do some stalking. My friend wanted a nice all rounder went to try several, did lots of digging amazing what you find out. Was going to buy a mare asked and asked again the owner if the mare had had any injuries or problems and the answer was no. Two days before the vetting after doing some investigation she found out about a tendon problem from a previous post on facebook.
I always ask why the horse is with a dealer or on sales livery? Has this been taken for reschooling or part exchange or bought cheaply at the sales.
 
Interesting range of views and I have very mixed feelings. I totally agree there can be a lot of 'miss buying!'

But there are also many dishonest sellers out there and the 'you bought it, deal with it' perspective might what they bank on. A good friend bought a 'safe' pony for her nervous daughter from a dealer who kept running off with her. She is an experienced owner and has a 'my pony, my responsibility' mindset but found out totally by chance several months later that the pony had a history of bolting when she happened to run into a friend of the old owner who recognised the pony. The dealer knew that as the old owner showed my friend the text messages she had sent to the dealer saying the pony was a bolter and needed re-schooling then selling on to a confident adult. (It was owned by the dealer not the old owner who had taken it in part-ex). That dealer has a very good reputation on dodgy dealers! The few who say she is dodgy get a barrage of abuse which may be why.....

Also some people with the best will in world do not have the skills or experience to work through behavioural problems and it does not help the pony or the rider for them to keep trying, especially when young children are involved.

But I agree they are not machines and need time to settle and build a relationship. I guess it is hard to know whether the problem is a miss-selling one or not. There is not always the evidence you need to prove miss-selling.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Interesting range of views and I have very mixed feelings. I totally agree there can be a lot of 'miss buying!'

But there are also many dishonest sellers out there and the 'you bought it, deal with it' perspective might what they bank on. A good friend bought a 'safe' pony for her nervous daughter from a dealer who kept running off with her. She is an experienced owner and has a 'my pony, my responsibility' mindset but found out totally by chance several months later that the pony had a history of bolting when she happened to run into a friend of the old owner who recognised the pony. The dealer knew that as the old owner showed my friend the text messages she had sent to the dealer saying the pony was a bolter and needed re-schooling then selling on to a confident adult. (It was owned by the dealer not the old owner who had taken it in part-ex). That dealer has a very good reputation on dodgy dealers! The few who say she is dodgy get a barrage of abuse which may be why.....

Also some people with the best will in world do not have the skills or experience to work through behavioural problems and it does not help the pony or the rider for them to keep trying, especially when young children are involved.

But I agree they are not machines and need time to settle and build a relationship. I guess it is hard to know whether the problem is a miss-selling one or not. There is not always the evidence you need to prove miss-selling.
Click to expand...

This is what I am saying found out later it had a history. Find out before you buy, do your research, if its a good kids pony people will be falling over themselves to tell you about it, also if its a bad kids pony. There are loads of equestrian facebook sites you can ask on. Take photos, take videos before you buy and ask and stalk.
 
IME, it can easily take a mare a year to settle into a new home.
However that doesn't mean that a new owner should expect to put up with bad manners etc but the owner needs to put a strong routine in place immediately, so that the horse understands the boundaries and knows what to expect. I am firmly of the opinion that far too many people buy horses without the knowledge needed, a year or so of weekly lessons at a RS is nowhere near enough experience.

As for the pony in OP; my friend bought a 7 yr old NFx pony for her beginner children (she had her own horse), sis & I went with her to view the pony which had previously been broken to drive, then had a foal and been turned away for while. She was actually being sold to clear a livery bill. We led her round a housing estate, saw her tied up on the busy yard with a big horsebox being unloaded of its carriage and then the lightest weight rode her bareback on the sand school. She didn't put a foot wrong.

Pony came home, both friend's very novice children rode her, in completely new tack, on LR and she was just as expected. Children then progressed to riding her independently, she has been showing and jumping with them, with lots of club activities and some riding holidays as well. Pony is now hopelessly outgrown so went on loan to another local family and was then sold to them. She has always been exactly what she was expected to be, a lovely sensible, willing pony who looks after her rider. If OP's friend had been my friend I would have suggested that the tack might be a problem.
 
Orangehorse said:
I think a "no vices" pony that bucked, and continued to buck, should go back pronto. Of course a dealer's trick was to let you have the pony, "and send it back if it doesn't work out" knowing full well that a) they have your money and b) you will get fond of the animal and not want to send it back and c) "well it didn't do that when I had it" and d) sorry I have spent the money on buying more animals so you can't have your money back.

I have seen the stories of horses not settling down in a new home, and I believe them. But then how does that apply when you take the horse away to stay at a show, it has to just go out and do its job, whether or not it likes its neighbour. I know they are not being turned out together, and the owner is continuing to look after and ride, but I think that a horse that is basically well mannered should be well mannered in all circumstances unless there is a major upset in how it is handled.
Click to expand...
I agree wholeheartedly with this. As I currently have a good friend in a tricky situation with a horse she bought in good faith which I have seen behaving very badly in deed, in fact dangerously. I have been thinking a good deal about this. Horses do not IMO need months to settle sufficiently to be well mannered if they have good manners to start with and have been properly educated. I may not feel I know a horse until it has been with me for a few months but that is a very different thing to having one that is good to handle and ride from the start. The first time I rode Rose at home she was a little "turbo charged" but she was perfectly safe, just a bit revved up but she was lovely to handle and do from the start. I've got a new mare who arrived on Sunday, an ex polo pony, she was anxious and a bit unsettled, still is, but she is not misbehaving. she's a bit "on her toes" to turn out but just needs a reminder to behave and she stands quietly to have her head collar off. She hasn't dragged me, barged or threatened me and I don't expect her to. With each day she looks a little more relaxed. This is how I expect a new horse to react to a change, not turn into some raving lunatic. As I said earlier, we've had lots of horses through the yard and they have all been fine to handle and ride. I take no credit for most of them as they have been bought as older horses and their former owners have obviously done a good job but even the 5 year olds have been well mannered. Do people have problems, I wonder, because the horses they buy have had previous owners who "work around" bad behaviour instead of sorting it?
 
We bought a second pony for my 7yo son almost exactly a year ago.

It has taken her a while to settle in completely, but even from the very start I trusted her to hack, and to ride in the school and jump small fences.

She wasn't in our PC but in another branch so I was able to check her out with friends in that branch, and although we weren't able to take her on trial, we were able to take her for the day to our chief PC instructor's place where she was tried comprehensively in company, on her own, XC, SJ etc....

If she had started to buck him off within a week she would have been going back, no questions asked.

Fiona
 
In the past I have assumed that once I buy a pony, their issues become my responsibility. My daughters' first pony was unpredictable and had them off many times from week 1, but I tried to work through the issues. Sending him back never even occurred to me. Though I did sell on fairly quickly when my daughter ended up in hospital. I never considered sending Ginny back though she had major problems from the start. But I am becoming increasingly disheartened by how dishonest so many sellers are willing to be. And I agree that a safe, sane well mannered pony should stay safe and sane in a new home.

I do think people can over-horse themselves by over-estimating their ability or not realising that a quality pony needs work and routine - that a pony at a viewing on a sales livery yard will have been ridden 6 times a week by a very good rider and will be compliant but wont necessarily stay that way chucked in the field and ridden at weekends only. And I totally get that good horses can turn problematic with poor or inconsistent handling.

But unless the ponies are being over-fed, under ridden or badly handled I just don't believe the 'he's never done that before' stories anymore! None of mine have ever really changed their fundamental characters: the quirky/cheeky ones have stayed quirky & cheeky, the Saints have stayed Saintly.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Interesting range of views and I have very mixed feelings. I totally agree there can be a lot of 'miss buying!'

But there are also many dishonest sellers out there and the 'you bought it, deal with it' perspective might what they bank on. A good friend bought a 'safe' pony for her nervous daughter from a dealer who kept running off with her. She is an experienced owner and has a 'my pony, my responsibility' mindset but found out totally by chance several months later that the pony had a history of bolting when she happened to run into a friend of the old owner who recognised the pony. The dealer knew that as the old owner showed my friend the text messages she had sent to the dealer saying the pony was a bolter and needed re-schooling then selling on to a confident adult. (It was owned by the dealer not the old owner who had taken it in part-ex). That dealer has a very good reputation on dodgy dealers! The few who say she is dodgy get a barrage of abuse which may be why.....

Also some people with the best will in world do not have the skills or experience to work through behavioural problems and it does not help the pony or the rider for them to keep trying, especially when young children are involved.

But I agree they are not machines and need time to settle and build a relationship. I guess it is hard to know whether the problem is a miss-selling one or not. There is not always the evidence you need to prove miss-selling.
Click to expand...
Yes there are lots of dishonest sellers out there and they are not all dealers. The friend who I mentioned in an earlier post is in her early 70's, hunts regularly but has a horse that is not up to hunting twice a week so she has been looking for a second horse for a while. She was told about a horse that a couple of people had seen hunting with another hunt that they thought might be suitable for her. She tried it at the owner's yard (private sale) and he seemed fine to ride. she has the ad they were using where it is described as good with people, easy to load handle etc. It was just a little hesitant to load when she went to take him home after the vetting and the owner said, "Oh don't put pressure on the lead rope, he won't like that" After a while he loaded and she got him home. He was difficult right from the start, bargy in the stable, tricky to tack up and difficult to load. He'd go up vertical and strike out and try to bite. She contacted the seller after a couple of days and said she was having problems, seller's reply was we've sold the horse not given it to you on loan! Long story short, after a couple of weeks of escalating bad behaviour, a mutual and very experienced friend managed to get him loaded and she took him back. The seller has offered her half the money back which my friend has refused. Friend has the passport and has been in touch with the issuing office to explain the circumstances and as a retired lawyer is prepared to go through the courts to get her money back. This horse could have injured her very badly, I have seen it misbehaving and it was very concerning, how on earth could anyone sell a horse like this to someone in their 70's???? (or indeed to anyone?)
 
Bobbies behavior was interesting when she arrived at the breakers yard. I would consider her a green but safe ride and totally suitable for a novice to handle in any circumstance. She went into meltdown and was awful for the first fortnight. Screaming her head off and flinging herself about the stable, she wouldnt be tied up without being a prat. Just generally wound up and upset.

She was treated fairly but given firm boundaries and settled down in the end. When she was working she was 100% but I wonder what she would have been like if it was a more novice or nervous person handling her rather than professionals. I suspect it wouldnt have ended well!
 
oldie48 said:
Yes there are lots of dishonest sellers out there and they are not all dealers.
Click to expand...

That's awful! Tbh I trust private sellers even less than dealers!! At least most dealers have a reputation to consider. I think the fact that the private seller in the OP blocked the buyer immediately speaks volumes. When it came to a new pony for Katie I did not even consider browsing private sales ads. I just think they are basically a smorgasbord of delusion and dishonesty over half the time!
 
Private dealers in my recent experience are either dishonest or lack so much knowledge that they come across as dishonest... dealers on the whole might stretch the truth but dont outright lie ... they might ‘lie by omission’ though so make sure you ask all the right questions... then there are the truly dodgy dealers - I’ve only ever met 2... one horse was definitely doped and the other was technically going to be misssold but I knew this when I made him a rude offer and that pony was super after a few months schooling... the secret is telling the difference between the two and that comes with experience so if you don’t think u will be able to tell take a pro with you.
 
I dont think you have 30 days to send a horse back unless you are buying from a dealer. And even then it can be very time consuming and stressful if you end up taking the seller to court.
A private seller doesnt have to take it back unless you can prove in a court of law the horse isnt as advertised under the trade descriptions act.
 
Nope trade descriptions act only applies to businesses... your rights to misrepresention are only found in common law - basically you have to show they defrauded you.
 
blitznbobs said:
With a novice child and a non horsey family - probably most will take the proverbial
Click to expand...

This, why is a non horsey family buying a pony for a novice child? My family were non horsey however they only got me my first pony at age 11 once Id been riding and working lots of different horses at friends yards doing all the work that comes with horses (the stuff they dont tend to teach kids going to a riding school). Id say the child should get far more experience before getting given a pony.
 
With a new horse I think you have to really be firm with them, to the extent of where they put their feet! Don't try to be "nice" and "build a bond." First they need to know that YOU are the boss horse and you are a good enough boss to look after them. If you do not, then they want to take charge and this is where barging around and misbehaviour comes from. So oten it is a confidence issue. The horse is in a new home, with a stranger looking after them, and the stranger doesn't seem to know their own mind, so do you trust that stranger or do you take matters into your own hooves. That doesn't really cover ridden issues fully, but it is a start. I think what someone said about consistency and being in a routine helps. They need to know when tea will arrive - will it arrive, is there going to be enough for me?

This has been gleaned over many years and with talking to rehab people who deal with difficult issues. Sometimes it can be as simple as literally making the horse stand in a certain place and not move until you let it move, and keeping it from invading your space - the boss horse moves the other horse's feet. I once had a new horse and I dreaded fetching her in to the stable, she bit and kicked (but was good to ride). After threatening to send her to the nearest sale, I sat down and thought about it and decided to start again, not fuss round the horse, just treat her like a new one not fuss around and we turned a corner. Another time we had a pony that was a classic of novice owner wanted a good pony for the child. It was a good pony, but it ran rings round them and frightened them, like barging out of the trailer and rearing at the end of the rope, and then being nappy and starting to kick when being groomed. I didn't let my daughter use a stick when the pony was nappy, I said she was to win by will alone, and after a couple of attempts of being nappy she didn't do it again.
I solved the kicking while being groomed by ……. well you can guess; didn't do it again, and ditto the barging by being very, very firm about moving until I said so. She was a different pony within a week - and I suspect the pony she had been when they bought her, as she was obviously a pro in her job.

New pony arrived recently, bargy and shook its head up and down when I was trying to get the headcollar off. "Not standing for this" I thought, so I didn't undo the headcollar until his head was still, and within a couple of days he stands quietly while I undo his headcollar. How many years had this been going on - many I suspect.

I have also seen the effects of a temporary tranquiliser when my horse had to have one when being rehabbed after box rest. It leaves the sytem within 24 hours, but just takes the edge off. "Humm" I thought "this might be useful in unscrupulous hands."

I also agree with the poster who said that people buy a new horse and turn it out for a couple of weeks to settle down, whereas it was being prepared for sale and probably being ridden every day, so you have a fresh,underexercised horse in a new envirnoment with a new (slightly apprehensive) rider, and again a recipe for misbehaviour.
 
Last edited:
Not read all the replies but formthe type of horses I look for, settling in tends to be minor issues but I’d not put up with any really tricky behaviour.

I’ve bought a few and only one displayed behaviour that warranted trying to send it back. Bought from a dealer though and later found out they had a bad rep. Sold to a competition home and they did really well with him. Every other horse I’ve bought has been fine from day 1, even if it takes a while to find their buttons, get to know them etc.

So whilst it does take time for them to settle, I think if it’s very different to what you were told you were buying, it’s legitimate to decide it’s not right for you.
 
tankgirl1 said:
Sometimes I think people vastly underappreciate what an ordeal moving yards is for a horse, especially with a new owner and new routine into the bargain.
Click to expand...
I don't think a lot of people realise that the horse takes it's cue from it's handler especially in a new place, so nervous fussy people make the horses the same.
 
I was in a tack shop yesterday and there were a couple in there looking at brushes ... umming and ahhing over what to buy to such an extent that I asked if I could help..

They told me that they were non horsey but a pony had been dumped in their field and looked in aright state and they had discovered it was their responsibility... so they were going to clean it up.

I showed them what brush I’d use and asked if they’d contacted anyone about it — there was a long term plan in place — but I thought at the time it doesn’t matter how good a pony it was if they were half as hesitant with the pony as they were choosing a brush it was going to be a disaster and possibly dangerous. Novices especially novice children need someone to keep the pony in line... out Shetland is the proverbial saint and an Uber confident soul but she will take the mick out of the kids if she gets half a chance... she’s safe she will just not do what they want (wander to the side of the road /school and eat grass) but without a firm hand some of the time most ponies will become unruly yobs (just like children tbh)
 
Ambers Echo said:
How can it be their responsibility if someone dumps an animal on their land? That seems rather unfair on them! The pony who ended up in a town garden when bought off the internet by a soft-hearted 13 year old was taken in immediately by WHW.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-44087177

(Mr Melvin Andrews if anyone has not seen this).
Click to expand...
Because that is the law — it’s going to a relative of theirs who has horses but they live near Aberdeen so it’s a week or two til it will go
 
blitznbobs said:
Because that is the law
Click to expand...

Is it really! Just for farmland? Or could someone stick a horse in my garden and it would become my responsibility?? Just temporarily (ie until the appropriate authorities turned up) - or longer term? Just horses or other animals? Sorry about all the question but I had no idea this was the law so I am interested in how that works.
 
Q810: Horses have been placed on land I own without my permission. What can I/the police do?


Abandoning horses on public/private land without the permission of the land owner is known as 'fly grazing.' If this happens, the police must be notified of this within 24 hours and the owners have up to 4 days to reclaim their horses. (previously it was 14 days).​
Before taking action to remove the horses, you should enquire whether your neighbours or anyone locally know who the animals belong to. If, after the 4 days nobody reclaims the animals, the land owners have a much wider range of options as to what to do with them. Though they can still choose to sell them at auction, they can also choose to re home seized horses privately or to charities, sell them privately or as a last resort they can have the animals humanely euthanised . Any excess money will remain recoverable with the owner.
You will be responsible for the control and welfare of the animals during the time that they are detained on your land and will need to make sure that they are fed and have access to water. If there is no water supply in the area where the horses are, or you have any other concerns regarding the welfare of the animals, you should raise your concerns with the RSPCA.
 
Thanks. I've just googled it too. The law seem to place a lot of responsibility on to landowners. What if they don't want a horse/ are scared of horses/ are allergic to horses/ need the land for other animals. What if the horse is trashing the land. What if they can;t afford hay/feed and veterinary care? What if they are about to go off the Australia for 6 weeks. What if they don't want to sell at auction and can't sell any other way. What if a new horse on their land places their own horses at risk? Eg if the abandoned horse is ill or entire or is a carrier for strangles? The law seems mad to me. But interesting to learn something new! And I am still unsure whether my garden or back yard counts as 'private land'.
 
Ambers Echo said:
Thanks. I've just googled it too. The law seem to place a lot of responsibility on to landowners. What if they don't want a horse/ are scared of horses/ are allergic to horses/ need the land for other animals. What if the horse is trashing the land. What if they can;t afford hay/feed and veterinary care? What if they are about to go off the Australia for 6 weeks. What if they don't want to sell at auction and can't sell any other way. What if a new horse on their land places their own horses at risk? Eg if the abandoned horse is ill or entire or is a carrier for strangles? The law seems mad to me. But interesting to learn something new! And I am still unsure whether my garden or back yard counts as 'private land'.
Click to expand...

Yes it does and the answer is tough and no it’s not fair ...

If you can find the owner then you can recoup losses but chances of that at slim to none... there are campaigns to alter this law but the stumbling block is, if the landowner is not responsible, then who’s responsibility do these abandoned animals become - general advice... have very good locks on all your gates
 
Ambers Echo said:
Thanks. I've just googled it too. The law seem to place a lot of responsibility on to landowners. What if they don't want a horse/ are scared of horses/ are allergic to horses/ need the land for other animals. What if the horse is trashing the land. What if they can;t afford hay/feed and veterinary care? What if they are about to go off the Australia for 6 weeks. What if they don't want to sell at auction and can't sell any other way. What if a new horse on their land places their own horses at risk? Eg if the abandoned horse is ill or entire or is a carrier for strangles? The law seems mad to me. But interesting to learn something new! And I am still unsure whether my garden or back yard counts as 'private land'.
Click to expand...

Just a tip, naughty one (but works) :- The animals then need to be haltered, held on the public highway and police called to the strays. Police will then arrange removal and shouldn't be pushing land owner to 'pop them in their field' as otherwise the LO will be back to square 1....
 
I wouldn't accept a novice ride who starts bucking within a week or something that was downright dangerous. They would be sent back but I would investigate what was causing the issues first. I don't mind quirky just be honest about it. I do think people brand a horse as dangerous, bad, mad or misold far too easily though. I recently loaned a horse out who haunted who hasn't got a nasty bone in his body. Easy to do and generally a gentle soul. I was informed this horse had tanked off, bronked alot, been branded as dangerous and was kicking people in the field. Needless to say he came home. He was about half the size he'd been when he left and he'd only been there 10 weeks. He's still fine to handle in all ways and hasn't put a foot wrong ridden since he's been home
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top