'Missed' Season??

R

Rosehip

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 September 2008
Messages
1,944
Location
Derbyshire
Visit site
My little mare went off to stud on Weds (26th) and was due in season on the Sat (29th) however she hasnt come into season yet, and is showing absolutely no interest in the stallion apart from a bit of tail swishing when he gets a bit too close! I have monitored her really closely throughout her last few seasons last year and her 1st two this year and she is always bang on date, so both I and the stud owner are at a bit of a loss to explain why she is now 4 days late, (despite being teased every day) and showing total disinterest in both the stallions she has been shown. (They teased with the other stallion they stand yesterday to see if it was just Smee she didnt like!)
Could she have hidden her season, or is she holding it back? Can they do that??
She isnt even squealing like she does at my other mare, just looks round at the stallion and then carries on doing whatever it was that she was doing - today she went back to sleep!!
If she hasnt shown anything by Friday I think I will book her for a scan, and then possibly PG her...its not a huge problem, Im just totally perplexed as to why she is so off character season wise! Any ideas?
 
I'd get her scanned, has she had a foal (or been covered) in the past? It's possible she may have a low grade uterine infection or some fluid that can be easily dealt with with a flush and Oxytocyn.

If nothing shows up on the scan I'd discuss PGing her with your vet too.
 
Thanks Clepottage, as far as we are aware she is a maiden, but obviously doesnt mean she hasnt been tried in the past. My the look of her bag and the way her stomach is dropped etc, Id put money on her having had a foal at some point. She had a CEM swab in Feb and that came back clear, and she was rectaled at the same time as she looked very in foal (inc showing a bag) which showed her empty and the vet said everything 'felt right'...but I have since spoken to a couple of different people who have said that they arent impressed with this vet practice when it comes to stud work, so Im thinking of using a family friend who specialises in stud/AI/ET work.
Im hoping that going to see her today will have brightened her up - she has apparantly been quite quiet and a bit fed up, but screamed as soon as she saw me, and we had a lovely hour or so just chatting and eating polo's!
Why cant life be simple hey!
Thanks for your advice x
 
Holly831 said:
You chatting her eating polo's ?? sounds like our place :D:D
Click to expand...

Absolutely!! She kept asking for kisses which she doesnt normally do, and was very lovey dovey!
I had a word with her about being 'nice' to the young man that keeps coming to see her, but she yawned and then rummaged about in my pocket for some more polo's....so I dont think it sank in! lol! x
 
I am in the same boat as you with one of my big girls. She has been running true for her first 2 heats this year but we didnt breed her on these cycles as I wanted her to be bred on this cycle. Every other unbred mare at my stables is raving in heat but not her. I am teasing her daily and the other mares would very much enjoy his attention but she isnt. I scanned her yesterday and she did have a corpus luteum so I think she could have totally wiped out her history by ovulating on the quiet this time which is very strange as I had her dates for being receptive and if she did ovulate early then it was *very* early. Im going to scan her again later this week to see what is going on. The strange thing is this mare is very showy when she is in heat and about to ovulate so if she has already ovulated then she really did it through the back door when noone was watching. Her dates make it that she should be ready to breed tomorrow but that isnt happening now. Im going to keep scanning her to have a more accurate account of what is going on with this cycle.
 
Alot of mares are 'late' this year ... not really coming into season and if they do it doesn't 'stay'.

Hopefully things will change with the warm weather that is being forecast!
 
Jaypeebee, Im just the same, if Id have taken Seren on either of her 1st two cycles then it would have been fine, but I didnt want an early foal, so waited for this one!
As colourfan says, the weather really isnt helping, my big gir has been in season, out and back in again in the space of 10 days - so it is entirely possible that seren had an early season and hid it well - she doesnt show very much anyway. Bum, looks as though I will have to scan and see how it goes from there!
x
 
An update for you Rosehip on my big mare who was proving elusive. I scanned the mare this morning and she is now well on her way! She should be ready to breed in 3 or 4 days, so it looks like she didnt miss after all. Maybe your mare is doing the same as mine and keeping you on your toes.
 
Oh fab news Jaypeebee! Lets hope Seren gets her act together too!!
Hopefully this bit of warmer weather coming in will set her on her way, its been miserable round here and pretty cold, and she isnt the most settled of creatures, so it could be that she is a bit fed up of being soggy and chilly, and really cross at 'Mummy' (me!!) for moving her to a place where blokes keep pestering her! lol!
Fingers crossed for your mare J, thanks for the update! xx
 
Having the mare scanned in Feb and being "fine" is no indicator as to how she is progressing at this time of year really.

The mares first couple of seasons are known as "transitional" seasons and basically mean that the mare is settling in to the breeding season.Just like women, some will become regular whilst others will be less predictable and the first seasons are often dependant on weather / temperature conditions.

Your mare may also have a persisitent C.L. which means that, left alone, she will never show in season. If you are happy that your mare is "obvious" when in season and displays normally then at this stage I would be getting her checked over by a repro vet.

That said, not all mares show a classic tail lifting, winking, urinating behaviour when in season. This is when you need a good, dilligent teaser and very alert/ knowlegeable stud staff.
Likewise some mares that appear to be displaying to other mares (winking /squirting) are actually showing signs of muted aggression (easily confused with a season) and are not in any way receptive to a stallion once the "real thing" is present.
 
Marchell, thank you very much for your reply!
Seren has never really shown a season with me to the extent of my big girl Melly. Seren only shows a slight lift to the tail, she wees a bit more and has sticky back legs, where as Mels goes the whole hog! I was told when I bought Seri that she 'roared' in season, but I have had her a year and she has never done so with me.
Do you think that she may have fluid in the uterus?
The stud has said that Seren isnt reacting to the stallion in the way that a mare out of season would - ie agressively - but just isnt receptive. She clamps her tail, swishes it and puts her ears back, but nothing else. She is also unreceptive to a mare and foal in the next paddock, preferring to graze rather than interact with them or anything else turned out with her.
Im getting very worried about her to be honest, I went to see her on Friday and she was grumpy and looked really tired, totally unlike her!
Im calling my vet tomorrow to get them to come out and scan her, I dont know what else to do!!
 
Not ALL mares react obviously to a stallion, some may be instantly and obviously "in-season" whilst other may just be purely "non demostrative" to the point where they merely stand facing a teaser stallion, with no signs of winking or urinating yet when scanned they have obvious oedema and are definately "in-season"

Likewise the reverse may happen - totally obvious signs of being in season but would never let a stallion anywhere near them (we have two such mares at the moment, sisters strangely enough).

The presence (or lack of) fluid within the uterus should not affect how the mare displays - its just a specific thing for each individual mare and once again a good stud combied with a good repro vet will ultimately determine the breeding status of your mare.

Also many mares will just not shown an obvious season on their home ground, in a mare herd situation. Hence the benifits of a good teaser stallion, quiet yet experienced enough to relax the mare and hopefully induce the "obvious" signs. A maiden mare can be well in season yet be scared by a screaming stallion and just refuse to stand.

Just read your post back and seen that your mare may be a maiden? In that case I would ask at your stud how she is teased? Its not uncommon for maidens to be very shy and over ride their hormonal status. Vet then tease, tease, tease :) Good luck.
 
Thanks again Marchell! The stud started off teasing her over the stable door, but she just looked at him and sniffed him a bit, so now they are teassing her in the covering area so that the stallion can move round her. If she is scared of the stallion would she be displaying the signs she is - clamped tail, swishing and ears back? Thats all she has ever done, never any more or less demonstrative.
I'll be calling the vet in the morning and then take it from there I guess! x
 
Its very unusual for a stud to risk their stallion coming into active contact with a mare that may not be in season.Most studs tease either over the stable door as you say or more commonly over a teasing board, which allows the mare handler to position the mare with her back end to the stallion without the risk of them being injured.Some mares will be anti face to face but become receptive once teased by the stallion .

Like I say all mares are different so your best option would be to get her checked over as you intend.you can always get her injected in once you have had her scanned. (dont inject her without scanning as you can seriously mess her up for this season.
 
Hi.... feeling very down at the moment. I have booked Serri in for a scan tomorrow, so I guess we will see what is cracking off then. I just cant help feeling that something just isnt right with her :-( Could it be possible that she has been 'gelded'? I know that race mares are sometimes done, but surely a 12.2 welshie wouldnt be would she?
At the moment, my gut is telling me that I should just give up and bring her home, but I know that isnt an option until we have scanned her.
I just feel like Im putting her through a lot for absolutely nothing!
I think the reason they have taken to teasing her in the arena is that she is so un-demonstrative in the stable/overr the bar, that they are trying to get some sort of reaction out of her be it good or bad, as she is almost lifeless in her absolute disinterrest in the stallion.
Why cant life be a little more simple??!!
 
Thanks both! I needed that hug Holly!
If she will need AI'ing, I'll have them give her oxcytocin to make her ovulate straight away (is that right) and then its done and dusted - OR I may take Seren away and AI Melly (my big girl) instead, and then work Seri on to sell.
Im hoping that she is just a shy and nervous virgin, and a bit of pg and some encouragement will do the trick.... All I wanted was a baby, and Ive got all this instead!! :-(
 
Rosehip said:
Thanks both! I needed that hug Holly!
If she will need AI'ing, I'll have them give her oxcytocin to make her ovulate straight away (is that right) (
Click to expand...

Nope! Oxytocin is for getting rid of fluid in mares who have a fluid retention problem (or shifting retained placentas.) Basically, it causes uterine contractions.

You're thinking of Chorulon, which is given 24 hours BEFORE AI'ing to make sure the mare ovulates 24-36 hours later and the semen isn't swimming around for ages looking for a friendly follicle!

From what you've said, the stud you're using doesn't seem terribly with it! No-one in their right mind pi**es about for days (weeks) teasing a mare with NO idea of what's going on!

Sensible studs scan a mare ASAP after arrival - 2 main reasons - 1st is to map any cysts so that a suitably sized cyst isn't mistaken for a pregnancy at the 14 day scan. The 2nd is to determine the stage she is at in her cycle; if she has a suitable sized dominant follicle and a Corpus Luteum she can then be PG'd to bring her on within 4 days. The faster you can get a mare in foal, the better for the owner (who saves keep fees) and better for the stud (their bill is paid quicker and a horse goes home!)

Of course - there's a 3rd reason - to make sure the damn mare isn't ALREADY in foal and wasting your time! (It happens!) And a 4th reason -in a mare who has foaled - to check the uterus has cleared up after foaling!

A mare who is not coming into season - or at least not showing - may have a persistent haemorrhagic follicle or CL, or may be low in oestrogen, or may be pregnant, or ...... Amongst the 14 day scans, and the 28 day scans, we always have at least 1 WTF scan scheduled (a 'what the f***' is going on scan :D)
 
Hehe JanetGeorge - a WTF scan - that is definately what Seri had today!!
After spending a sleepless night fretting over all the dreadful things it could be that has made Seri not cycle, we finally have good news!
To quote exactly the vets notes:

"In season 4/5 and 29/5. 6yr maiden. Has been showing signs subtly but not properly. Scanned in stocks - L overy MSF, R Overy 31mm (also 25mm), odema 2.
Adv should be starting to show, if O wants to know more precisely can scan on Friday and Chorulon/Ovuiplait if possible. O quite happy to keep trying"

Vet thinks that Seri either came in early and was missed as she is so quiet, OR she has had an extended cycle. She said that since a mare ovulates when the folicle is high 30's/low 40's, and a folicle grows approx 2mm a day, she should be ovulating about Sunday, and although I could re-scan on Fri and possibly Chorulon/ovuiplait, which would bring her to ovulation on Sunday, she is already most likely to go on Sun anyway, so Ive decided to keep teasing her, and just hope that she starts to show and will stand for the stallion.
Am I doing the right thing? Am I being beggered about a bit? I really like the stud owner, she is being v.good with Seri, and has done me a good deal on the stud fee, but obviously Seri has now been there 13 days, and is having to be stabled at night as she is a porker, so Im running up costs!
It was easy with Daizy - she ran with the stallion and 4 other mares for about a month and then came home and produced a foal 11 months later!!! I like easy!!!
sorry - rambling now!!
 
Rosehip said:
Vet thinks that Seri either came in early and was missed as she is so quiet, OR she has had an extended cycle. She said that since a mare ovulates when the folicle is high 30's/low 40's, and a folicle grows approx 2mm a day, she should be ovulating about Sunday, and although I could re-scan on Fri and possibly Chorulon/ovuiplait, which would bring her to ovulation on Sunday, she is already most likely to go on Sun anyway, so Ive decided to keep teasing her, and just hope that she starts to show and will stand for the stallion.
Click to expand...

Vet has read the book - mares don't! I''ve had mares ovulate on a 35mm follicle; others more than 50! And a follicle MIGHT grow at 2mm a day - or it could 'sit' at 35mm for a week and not move at all.

Butit sounds hopeful. Is she 'showing' to the stallion at all yet?? If she is likely to ovulate on Sunday, then I would hope to cover her on Thursday and Saturday, and I would be teasing her thoroughly on Wednesday!

Teasing is an art - not a science. Some mares walk into my trying yard and start 'showing' the minute the stallion approaches the yard. Others will squeal, rear, bite, strike, kick etc. for a good 10 minutes before they say: "Oh OK then- I AM in season!" The record is held by a little chestnut RID mare who held out for 35 minutes of solid teasing before she showed a dickie-bird! (she then stayed in for 8 days and was covered 4 times!!) AND she got in foal!
 
I'm with JG, the vet will tell you she is in-season and ready to cover but for natural service she still needs to actually stand for the stallion and the two don't always follow, especially for a maiden, hence my previous comments about teasing. (same applies for mares with foal at foot - they can be sooooo foal proud :()

Likewise about the expected ovulation dates, some play ball other play stupid ! It may also be that smaller pony mares ovulate on a smaller size follicle - I know we had one that repeatedly did this but as we dont usually do pony mares it may have been an exeption although I think I have read it somewhere else ?


I'm intrigued regarding those in season dates? Are those stated by the vet or the stud?
 
O bum this is getting complicated again!!
Seri hides her seasons pretty well at home - just a bit of sticky legs, I have been counting the days between sticky legs, and the amount of days she has them, hence 4/5 = 4th May 10, sticky legs for 3 days, then 21 days later on 29/5 = 29th May 10 there should be sticky legs....no? oh its no isnt it and Im now a certified dip stick!
The stud owner is teasing her well every day - the stallion can nuzzle, kiss etc etc, with no reaction (good or bad) at all, until he goes behind her when she clamps her tail and swishes it. This is what she has done from the 1st day of teasing, and did it in front of me this morning. I am seriously on the verge of saying sod it and giving up because Im not ment to be feeling like this, like Im doing the wrong thing and spending all this money for bum all! My keep fee's are 100+ already, Im stressed, Melly misses her friend, Seri is fat and fed up, and had nasty things shoved up her bum..... oh Im sorry guys, I just feel like a complete P*l*ck who shouldnt even be contemplating breeding!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top