Monet,s Garden treated with homeopathy

pines of rome said:
Oh dear, what have I started can,t we all just get along and agree to disagree on this!
I have just come back from seeing my conventional vet and he is quite happy working with my homeopathic vet on my horse,s problems in fact it was his suggestion to try homeopathy on my boy,s sarcoid before going the liverpool cream route and he also condones the use of homeopathy to treat his navicular bone spur.
It is nice to see how these two vets run things past each other and can work together for the good of the horse, which is surely why we will try different things, what ever that might be!
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I'm happy if you're happy PoR. I won't ever believe in it but if it does not harm I have no real problem with it. Does that make you feel better? :)

rhino said:
The entire transcript of the Horizon programme is available here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathytrans.shtml
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rhino, your ability to find these things is just amazing. I am, as ever, in wondrous awe! :o :D
 
The thing is, science is not optional thing to believe in or not, it doesn't work like that. Science is facts, and facts are not up for dispute.
There is absolutely NO, none whatsoever scientific evidence for homeopathy to work, it simply cannot and it doesn't.
 
pines of rome said:
Better write to the Queen and inform her not to use it anymore then!
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Cos she certainly will be a specialist in the ''science'' of homeopathy :rolleyes:
I have no intention to write to anybody, or to stop anybody using homeopathy. It is harmless and I would hazard a guess that additional hydration can be only a good thing in very many cases (no scientific evidence to support my claim, though); it just does not do what it says it does.
 
jesstickle said:
rhino, your ability to find these things is just amazing. I am, as ever, in wondrous awe! :o :D
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It's something I've had a lifelong interest in really. Even when I was at school I managed to carry out some research at a local university (that was looking at the chemicals present in aromatherapy oils though).

Then in my 1st year at Uni (Biochem) my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Conventional medicine could provide nothing but palliative treatment. I really understand the desperation that leads people to consider 'alternative' treatments, the need to be doing something. So yeah, we tried a lot of alternative methods, including the extreme Gerson Therapy. It didn't work of course, it couldn't. Around this time I was also paid to carry out research into similar treatment regimes for other cancer sufferers.

So I'm not closed minded. Not at all.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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And all that :D

But through my undergrad and masters in medical diagnostics I have learned to look for the logical evidence, and for homeopathy it just doesn't exist... I still have an interest in 'unusual' practice, my thesis was using a piece of kit called an 'electronic nose' to 'smell' blood samples - and do you know what, it worked a treat as a diagnosis for tuberculosis. Not really 'standard' issue science :D :D

I'm not a scientist any more, but I do retain an interest. Homeopathy is better than some as the risk of adverse effects is so low (as long as it is done alongside conventional treatment/advice) but it just doesn't work. It would be great if it could, but it doesn't.
 
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Lolo said:
My favourite moment when 'discussing' homoeopathy with a friend (music student, bless) a medical student overheard and chimed in as he walked past- "All this fuss about water, so boring! Now custard. Custard is a cool liquid" and walked off. Possibly made my week :D I have no idea who he was, and am only guessing at his med. student status because he had his name badge on :D
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:D That sounds like something I'd say. Custard IS a cool liquid.

fatpiggy said:
I use it for the simple reason that it works. I have a BSc
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It doesn't. If a BSc was worth anything, you couldn't possess one and claim to believe in homeopathy. Sadly, that is currently not the case.

fatpiggy said:
I work in a traditional University and have two Professors on my corridor, one of Chemistry, the other in Microbiology. Both are internationally renowned researchers and both use homeopathy.
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Bless. Yes, I've known some professors with some odd beliefs too. Never yet met one who believed in homeopathy, or would entertain such nonsense. I would be interested to know who they are - high profile scientists who are willing to fly in the face of all that they are supposed to uphold - it would rather put their research in a different light. Frankly, that they have eccentric beliefs is irrelevant (to use them as evidence is merely an argument based on ill-defined, assumed authority, which is unreliable to say the least) - throughout history scientists as individuals have held a broad range of beliefs, not all of which can possibly be true.

fatpiggy said:
Oh well, if some of you have such closed minds, more fool you. Bet you all read the adverts in the mags for new products though and go straight out and buy them just because you are told they are super duper, all singing all dancing and of course NEW. Wave cheerio to your money as you go.
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Why would you think that?! Closed minds don't entertain any nonsense - whether it's the absurd claims made in advertisments or the absurd claims made by alternative therapists.

Since you mention Ainsworth's - aren't they the company who were encouraging people to take homeopathic anti-malarials, instead of conventional medication? That is where homeopathy is dangerous.

fatpiggy said:
There is plenty of evidence in the "real" world, but you won't even look at it, just dismiss it as short-sighted, crank owners.
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Owners? No, I dismiss it as anecdotal evidence - which has NEVER been supported by the results of a well controlled, double blinded, scientific trial which has been published and subject to peer review. I will say it again, since you clearly missed it first time around - the plural of anecdotes is not data.
 
Bah! Well I spray my horses gums with a mixture of arnica, rustox and ruta grav, all things that are supposed to help his PSD recovery. Hopefully he'll get better, and I won't know if its that that made him get better, the shockwave, the magnets, the restricted exercise, or the manipulation by the chiro and osteo. But, I don't care - if it works I'm happy, if it doesn't I'm obviously not.

Its not expensive at all, and just because you can't prove something, doesn't mean you can disprove it. Who's to say what we might know about water in 100 years? :p ;) :D
 
'I have decided that certain heresies are ridiculous and unworthy of any credit, not so much because the world of science says, 'It is not so!' but because the world of nonscience says, 'It is', so enthusiastically. It is not so much that I have confidence in scientists' being right, but that I have so much in nonscientists' being wrong.'
 
Theres an awful lot of things science can,t always explain eg. ghosts, witchcraft, UFOS, healers,the bermuda triangle, iridiology and most people are sceptical about them, myself included!
I think you have to experience some things for yourself to have any belief in them.
 
pines of rome said:
Theres an awful lot of things science can,t always explain eg. ghosts, witchcraft, UFOS, healers,the bermuda triangle, iridiology and most people are sceptical about them, myself included!
I think you have to experience some things for yourself to have any belief in them.
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Science can't explain why peope believe such things, no. Science can prove that none of them exist / work!
 
rhino said:
Then in my 1st year at Uni (Biochem) my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Conventional medicine could provide nothing but palliative treatment. I really understand the desperation that leads people to consider 'alternative' treatments, the need to be doing something. So yeah, we tried a lot of alternative methods, including the extreme Gerson Therapy. It didn't work of course, it couldn't. Around this time I was also paid to carry out research into similar treatment regimes for other cancer sufferers.
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Really sorry that is why you know so much on the subject :( my step dad died of cancer when I was 21 (just finished my molecular biology degree). I busied myself by being outrageously indignant about the health service. I think it would have been better if I'd wasted it on homeopathy, that much crossness did none of us any good. He, rather bizarrely, started to pray, even though he didn't believe in God. Or hadn't up until then. Desperate times do call for desperate measures and I too can see the appeal of alternative medicine to people who have no other hope left....
 
I do use homeopathic remedies :eek: :D, i do feel they make a difference to my horses when ive used them, tbh i dont know how they work, and it appears at the moment from all the anti posts on here, science doesnt know how it works.
I dont ask anyone to pay for the treatments, i do so myself, i dont use it in isolation, believe me if my horse is unwell, lame or simply not right, my vet is my very first port of call, but i do use it as an adjunct to any treatment, i discuss it with my vets and theyve no problem with me using it.
I wouldnt come on here and claim to know how it works, or have proof of its effectiveness, i know its not there at the moment.
Im neither an idiot or a spendthrift, and if it keeps me happy,or makes me believe im trying my best for my horses why not.
Its like loads of things in the horse world .... Opinions differ
To rug or not to rug :eek::eek::eek::eek::D:D:D ( sorry )
To shoe or not to shoe
We all do what we think is right for our own horses :D
 
fatpiggy said:
As usual you have promoted yourself to God. Well one thing I'm certain about love is I'm glad I'm not as fat as you. Cheerio.
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I didn't promote myself to God, the title was given to me.

The last bastion of the failed argument is always the personal insult :D
 
fatpiggy said:
As usual you have promoted yourself to God. Well one thing I'm certain about love is I'm glad I'm not as fat as you. Cheerio.
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And you have confirmed rather a lot about yourself too :( If you can't take part in reasoned debate it may be better you bow out gracefully than resort to personal (and untrue) accusations.
 
rhino said:
And you have confirmed rather a lot about yourself too :( If you can't take part in reasoned debate it may be better you bow out gracefully than resort to personal (and untrue) accusations.
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Quite true, rhino, I'm afraid - I do think of myself as God-like :cool: :D
 
ester said:
great that isn't personal at all :eek: wow.

I have some arnica upstairs.... I guess I am never going to get this PhD am I :( :( :(
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Oh but it's natural, therefore it must be good :rolleyes:

I would say to anyone considering using the remedy that fatpiggy suggested, although Apis mel may be 'natural' it's not exactly ethical? Made by crushing whole bees and dissolving them in alcohol :eek: Vile!

ETA Thanks TFC, you're on the ball this evening :D
 
was it homeopaths there was a panorama (maybe :confused:) think on recently about them diagnosing when their own code of practice says they are not to diagnose. And people with some rather serious conditions not being advised that they should really go and see a doctor.

ps I don't remember why I have it, they do taste nice and sugary though ;)

and agree with the apis mel, great :rolleyes: like bees don't have enough issues.
 
rhino said:
I would say to anyone considering using the remedy that fatpiggy suggested, although Apis mel may be 'natural' it's not exactly ethical? Made by crushing whole bees and dissolving them in alcohol :eek: Vile!

ETA Thanks TFC, you're on the ball this evening :D
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:D I thought that was you :o thanks :)

Particulary bees, in light of the popuation issues and all that :eek: Couldn't they make it out of wasps - nobody likes them :cool:
 
I will add my story now :

A few years ago a 'friend' acquired a foal. This friend was quite novicey. This foal developed 'wart like creations' all over his muzzle. The lady was quite nervous about these and thought they may be the start of sarcoids. Her 'friend' was a homeopath and prescribed some anti wart thingys!! (little round green tablets) A few months down the line..... the horse was clear of these warts.


now there are two possible explanations.
1)They were grass/milk warts! They disappeared of their own accord like they always do!! (very very common in babies!)

2) the green tablets worked, this lady was a genius.
 
JFTD said:
Couldn't they make it out of wasps - nobody likes them :cool:
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I've always wondered what purpose wasps serve? For example, I'm not keen on spiders (I don't kill them I ignore them but they make me feel a bit shivery) but I am told they are needed in order to control the fly population.
 
marydoll said:
I do use homeopathic remedies :eek: :D, i do feel they make a difference to my horses when ive used them, tbh i dont know how they work, and it appears at the moment from all the anti posts on here, science doesnt know how it works.
We all do what we think is right for our own horses :D
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And quite right too :) I don't think anyone has said on here to the OP NOT to use homeopathy, but have stated their opinions that THEY wouldn't use it, and given evidence of why.

ester said:
was it homeopaths there was a panorama (maybe :confused:) think on recently about them diagnosing when their own code of practice says they are not to diagnose. And people with some rather serious conditions not being advised that they should really go and see a doctor.
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I can't remember that one but there is a huge issue with people setting themselves up as 'homeopaths', 'kinesiologists' and the like as the licensing of terms is practically non-existent in this country :rolleyes:

And yes, there are huge risks when the advice of QUALIFIED persons is not sought. Horribly hysterical site but the message is valid
http://whatstheharm.net/homeopathy.html

JFTD said:
:D I thought that was you :o thanks :)
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Yep, thought it was completely uncalled for :)
 
does everything need a purpose!? they are pretty good at pollinating things so you can have flowers ;) :).

I always feel that bugs and parasites always get a raw deal.
 
Suziq77 said:
I've always wondered what purpose wasps serve? For example, I'm not keen on spiders (I don't kill them I ignore them but they make me feel a bit shivery) but I am told they are needed in order to control the fly population.
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Wasn't one of the New Scientist "Last Word" books entitled "why do we need wasps" or something? :D I can't think why they exist, but rhino might know (she often seems to know everything :D)


Ester, you'd get on well with my lab buddy. He breeds Cambodian stick insects and rescues beetles and bugs at every opportunity :D
 
JFTD said:
Wasn't one of the New Scientist "Last Word" books entitled "why do we need wasps" or something? :D I can't think why they exist, but rhino might know (she often seems to know everything :D)
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No, it was 'Does Anything Eat Wasps?' Think the answer was pretty much no :D
 
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